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Veggie
01-19-2011, 11:49 PM
I looked through numerous posts and didn't see my specific question answered.

You cant even have a 14.5" Barrel without a fixed muzzle device increasing the OAL to 16" even if its not attached to an upper receiver right?

I want to get a 14.5 barrel with a BC 1.5 but I don't see how to go about it.

Don Nguyen
01-19-2011, 11:51 PM
You can own everything (rails, upper, bcg, etc) but the short barrel (under 16"). Only way about it is if you do not currently own a AR lower, then you can be in possession of the barrel. So you can either 1) have the barrel/upper assembly shipped to someone you know who doesn't own an AR lower, 2) have it shipped directly to someone who can be in possession of such a barrel/upper and have them weld it for you, or 3) own a pistol lower.

Veggie
01-19-2011, 11:55 PM
Oh that's a great idea Don. I will just have the barrel sent to my Father. Then when I find someone to pin/weld the BC on it I will have my dad mail them both to said person.

Thanks for clarification on what I was sure but needed some confirmation.

Turo
01-19-2011, 11:56 PM
There aren't any laws barring buying and possessing a barrel that is less than 16 inches in length.

There are, however, federal laws concerning "constructive possession" of a short barreled rifle. So if you buy a 14.5" barrel, you probably shouldn't have all the other pieces (lower receiver plus all the other parts for it) with it. Another way to avoid the gray area constructive possession laws, is if you own both an AR pistol and an AR rifle, you can argue that the 14.5" barrel is an extra for the pistol.

All the regular things apply, IANAL, YMMV, etc.

ETA: Darn my slow typing!

Veggie
01-20-2011, 12:00 AM
Yea I was pretty sure it was I just wanted to be 100% sure before I broke federal law. I am just going to have it sent to my father.

Kharn
01-20-2011, 2:35 AM
Even easier is to buy it from a shop that can weld the muzzle attachment on for you, such as ADCO.

Quiet
01-20-2011, 6:35 AM
There aren't any laws barring buying and possessing a barrel that is less than 16 inches in length.

There are, however, federal laws concerning "constructive possession" of a short barreled rifle. So if you buy a 14.5" barrel, you probably shouldn't have all the other pieces (lower receiver plus all the other parts for it) with it. Another way to avoid the gray area constructive possession laws, is if you own both an AR pistol and an AR rifle, you can argue that the 14.5" barrel is an extra for the pistol.

All the regular things apply, IANAL, YMMV, etc.

ETA: Darn my slow typing!

There are also CA state laws concerning "constructive possession" for SBR [PC 12020(c)(2)(E)], SBS [PC 12020(c)91)(E)], & MG [PC 12200].



Penal Code 12020
(c)(1) As used in this section, a "short-barreled shotgun" means any of the following:
(A) A firearm which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell and having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.
(B) A firearm which has an overall length of less than 26 inches and which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell.
(C) Any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.
(D) Any device which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell which, when so restored, is a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C) inclusive.
(E) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to convert a device into a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C) inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive, can be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.
(2) As used in this section, a "short-barreled rifle" means any of the following:
(A) A rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.(B) A rifle with an overall length of less than 26 inches.
(C) Any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.
(D) Any device which may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge which, when so restored, is a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive.
(E) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to convert a device into a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive, may be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

B Strong
01-20-2011, 8:44 AM
I looked through numerous posts and didn't see my specific question answered.

You cant even have a 14.5" Barrel without a fixed muzzle device increasing the OAL to 16" even if its not attached to an upper receiver right?

I want to get a 14.5 barrel with a BC 1.5 but I don't see how to go about it.

A barrel not attached to an upper is in the wonderful grey area of potential constructive possession.

The assembled upper w/ a under 16" barrel is an absolute no go - but a barrel under 16" w/o a stripped upper, gas tube etc. is a bit different, even if you have other assembled uppers.

I'm not saying that it's absolutely legal or illegal, I'm not an attorney, but if one would have such a barrel for a very short period of time less than...wait for it...Two Weeks before it was sent to a 'smith for the pin/weld job, I don't see where the omnipotent powers of the state would swoop in.

Edit: I just read quiet's post - I stand corrected.

Decoligny
01-20-2011, 9:07 AM
There are also CA state laws concerning "constructive possession" for SBR [PC 12020(c)(2)(E)], SBS [PC 12020(c)91)(E)], & MG [PC 12200].



Penal Code 12020
(c)(1) As used in this section, a "short-barreled shotgun" means any of the following:
(A) A firearm which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell and having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.
(B) A firearm which has an overall length of less than 26 inches and which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell.
(C) Any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.
(D) Any device which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell which, when so restored, is a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C) inclusive.
(E) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to convert a device into a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C) inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive, can be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.
(2) As used in this section, a "short-barreled rifle" means any of the following:
(A) A rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.(B) A rifle with an overall length of less than 26 inches.
(C) Any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.
(D) Any device which may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge which, when so restored, is a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive.
(E) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to convert a device into a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive, may be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

So, let's say I owned an AR-7 Pistol and an AR-7 Rifle. The reciever is the same on both. If I wanted to I could easily attach the barrel from the pistol to the rifle stock and receiver.

So it would be illegal for me to own both of these firearms at the same time simply because I could remove the rifle barrel and attach the pistol barrel?

http://picturearchive.auctionarms.com/1398064513/9489125/1604bf37305fc3553683d4fdc8eff3c4.jpg
http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/civil/civ007/ar7-2.jpg

Untamed1972
01-20-2011, 9:20 AM
If you owned an AR pistol then it should be legal, because then you'd technically have a legal use for it and be clear of any constructive posession issues.

12voltguy
01-20-2011, 9:51 AM
is there a max length barrel for an ar pistol?
can you use a 16" barrel on your pistol lower?
this post says 14.5" is ok, just wonder sice longest I see for say is 10.5 or 11.5 for pistol ar 15s

NiteQwill
01-20-2011, 9:54 AM
Have you tried looking directly at BCM? Buy the barrel and have them weld the BC for you.

Another option is ADCO, ship them the barrel (from whomever you order it from) and have them pin/weld the BC. I believe it's around $20-25.

motorhead
01-20-2011, 10:16 AM
[QUOTE=Decoligny;5654939]So, let's say I owned an AR-7 Pistol and an AR-7 Rifle. The reciever is the same on both. If I wanted to I could easily attach the barrel from the pistol to the rifle stock and receiver.

So it would be illegal for me to own both of these firearms at the same time simply because I could remove the rifle barrel and attach the pistol barrel?


exceptions are made for factory guns that go both ways. iirc, the case involved a t/c contender. better legal minds than mine will be along to quote the case law.

Untamed1972
01-20-2011, 10:32 AM
is there a max length barrel for an ar pistol?
can you use a 16" barrel on your pistol lower?
this post says 14.5" is ok, just wonder sice longest I see for say is 10.5 or 11.5 for pistol ar 15s

If I remember correctly an AR pistol (or other similar pistol config like AK or whatever) MUST have a barrel length of LESS than 16".

Untamed1972
01-20-2011, 10:35 AM
[QUOTE=Decoligny;5654939]So, let's say I owned an AR-7 Pistol and an AR-7 Rifle. The reciever is the same on both. If I wanted to I could easily attach the barrel from the pistol to the rifle stock and receiver.

So it would be illegal for me to own both of these firearms at the same time simply because I could remove the rifle barrel and attach the pistol barrel?


exceptions are made for factory guns that go both ways. iirc, the case involved a t/c contender. better legal minds than mine will be along to quote the case law.

I dont think so because that is no different then owning an AR rifle and AR pistol. The uppers can easily be swapped that does not negate the legality of of them each when kept in legal configuration, and no constructive posession issues arise by owning both.

It's when you own the rifle and a shortbarrel, or shortbarreled upper with no other legal use for the SB-upper or barrel that you get in hot water. As long as you can show that you have a legal use for the SB then you're ok.

Kharn
01-20-2011, 2:27 PM
So, let's say I owned an AR-7 Pistol and an AR-7 Rifle. The reciever is the same on both. If I wanted to I could easily attach the barrel from the pistol to the rifle stock and receiver.

So it would be illegal for me to own both of these firearms at the same time simply because I could remove the rifle barrel and attach the pistol barrel?

http://picturearchive.auctionarms.com/1398064513/9489125/1604bf37305fc3553683d4fdc8eff3c4.jpg
http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/civil/civ007/ar7-2.jpg
The barrels index differently between the rifle and the pistol, the front sight would end up upside down if you put them together wrong. The ATF standard is if you can assemble every firearm in a legal configuration and have a legitimate use for every left-over part you are ok. It is when you have parts that you have no other reason to possess (11.5" AR barrel when you do not own an AR pistol or SBR) that you will run into trouble.

Decoligny
01-20-2011, 3:06 PM
The barrels index differently between the rifle and the pistol, the front sight would end up upside down if you put them together wrong. The ATF standard is if you can assemble every firearm in a legal configuration and have a legitimate use for every left-over part you are ok. It is when you have parts that you have no other reason to possess (11.5" AR barrel when you do not own an AR pistol or SBR) that you will run into trouble.

But who says that the California Courts are going to go by what the ATF says? My question was how does the CA Penal Code treat this.

If you read the CA PC noted previously, it looks to me like it says "If you have the parts to build it, you will be found guilty".

Penal Code 12020
(c)(1) As used in this section, a "short-barreled shotgun" means any of the following:
(A) A firearm which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell and having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.
(B) A firearm which has an overall length of less than 26 inches and which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell.
(C) Any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.
(D) Any device which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell which, when so restored, is a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C) inclusive.
(E) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to convert a device into a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C) inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive, can be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.
(2) As used in this section, a "short-barreled rifle" means any of the following:
(A) A rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.(B) A rifle with an overall length of less than 26 inches.
(C) Any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.
(D) Any device which may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge which, when so restored, is a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive.
(E) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to convert a device into a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive, may be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.