PDA

View Full Version : Does this FFL know what he is talking about?


MilSpec.45
08-18-2006, 2:02 PM
I contacted this FFL asking about receivig an off list lower receiver. He said they are illegal and I wrote back stating that if it is sent with no pistol grip and is OFF LIST, it is legal, this is how replied.

It's to hard to write everything out for you, but the bottom line is you will end up with a anchor if you could even get a receiver. Did you read the May release from DOJ? In 1991 they gave everyone a year to register their assault weapons and that still holds true. Even if you are able to build up a receiver the deadline to register is Dec. 31, 1992. I know a lot of folks bought them this past year, but they have all wasted their money. They are holding a illegal piece of a assault weapon. I know they are all hoping that they will get the go ahead to register, but that will never happen until they drop the assault ban. Call me sometime and I will explain why the Bushmaster Carbin 15 is legal.

Is there any truth to any of this? I'm confused. I would really appreciate some clarification. Thanks.

blacklisted
08-18-2006, 2:04 PM
1) He does not know what he is talking about. He has no idea that these can be built in an SB-23 compliant configuration. He may not even know about SB-23.

2) He wants to sell you a carbon-15 with a sealed magwell.

icormba
08-18-2006, 2:06 PM
Quote:
It's to hard to write everything out for you, but the bottom line is you will end up with a anchor if you could even get a receiver. Did you read the May release from DOJ? In 1991 they gave everyone a year to register their assault weapons and that still holds true. Even if you are able to build up a receiver the deadline to register is Dec. 31, 1992. I know a lot of folks bought them this past year, but they have all wasted their money. They are holding a illegal piece of a assault weapon. I know they are all hoping that they will get the go ahead to register, but that will never happen until they drop the assault ban. Call me sometime and I will explain why the Bushmaster Carbin 15 is legal.


If this was true... then how did I legally buy a Bushmaster XM-15 in 1997 and register it in 99/2000? ;)

SemiAutoSam
08-18-2006, 2:06 PM
Read here heck if you think the dealer is worth it print it out and give him a copy.

http://www.calguns.net/a_california_arak.htm

also read here
http://calgunlaws.com/article-465.html

Alot of things have changed since the since the original AW law several court cases.

ask attorney Chuck Michel if Off list lowers and or rifles built from them compliant to SB23 are legal.

Here is his contact info.
http://www.trutanichmichel.com/index2.php

blkA4alb
08-18-2006, 2:08 PM
Not to mention it seems that his dates are completely messed up. Since SB23 was enacted in 2000, not 1992 :confused: .

I wish I had talked to this FFL sooner! I never knew I had 3 anchors that shoot :D .

jemaddux
08-18-2006, 2:10 PM
I contacted this FFL asking about receivig an off list lower receiver. He said they are illegal and I wrote back stating that if it is sent with no pistol grip and is OFF LIST, it is legal, this is how replied.



Is there any truth to any of this? I'm confused. I would really appreciate some clarification. Thanks.


Yes there is truth in it, "Bushmaster carbon 15 is legal". Thats about the only truth I see. Considering two days ago they were saying that OLL are legal "PROVIDED" they are built to SB23, no evil features or evil features and "NO REMOVABLE MAG", they are legal.

From DOJ just a couple weeks ago:
Dear Mr. Maddux:

In regard to your e-mail inquiry, off list lowers may be sold and owned. Individuals who alter a firearm designed and intended to accept a detachable magazine in an attempt to make it incapable of accepting a detachable magazine do so at their legal peril. Whether or not such a firearm remains capable of accepting a detachable magazine is a question for law enforcement agencies, district attorneys, and ultimately juries of twelve persons, not the California Department of Justice. We cannot anticipate how any or all of the above entities will view the conversion of a firearm.


I think "Off list lowers may be sold and owned" is pretty clear:D

mltrading
08-18-2006, 2:23 PM
Dump this FFL. Get another one.:)

MilSpec.45
08-18-2006, 2:29 PM
Dump this FFL. Get another one.:)

I wish it were that easy. Everone I have called wants nothing to do with OLL's. Furthermore SJGE wants $249 + dros and tax for one of there in stock OLL's. :eek:

blkA4alb
08-18-2006, 2:32 PM
I wish it were that easy. Everone I have called wants nothing to do with OLL's. Furthermore SJGE wants $249 + dros and tax for one of there in stock OLL's. :eek:
PM sent MilSpec.45.

Fjold
08-18-2006, 3:05 PM
I contacted this FFL asking about receivig an off list lower receiver. He said they are illegal and I wrote back stating that if it is sent with no pistol grip and is OFF LIST, it is legal, this is how replied.



Is there any truth to any of this? I'm confused. I would really appreciate some clarification. Thanks.


Don't do business with him. Sometimes you just can't fix stupid.

grammaton76
08-18-2006, 3:08 PM
Don't do business with him. Sometimes you just can't fix stupid.

Bear in mind that some FFLs just haven't been sat down with and talked to about it. I personally tend to get 'em the benefit of the doubt at first. I'm sure the guy regularly gets guys coming in asking how much it is for select-fire, for example...

SemiAutoSam
08-18-2006, 3:17 PM
Alot of the FFL'S ive delt with in the past just are afraid of the DOJ and YES BATF and are so afraid of losing their TICKET that they just won't touch the OLL thing with a 40 ft pole.

They also either don't know the law or are afraid of interpreting it the wrong way.

I don't really blame them its their right to not deal in a specific thing.

And on the other hand its the customers right to not do business for this reason.

all we can do is our best to educate them.

Grakken
08-18-2006, 3:20 PM
I wish it were that easy. Everone I have called wants nothing to do with OLL's. Furthermore SJGE wants $249 + dros and tax for one of there in stock OLL's. :eek:


I was in the same boat awhile back. It's funny how so many FFL's either dont know the law or are letting DOJ intimidate them. I'm sure someone on this board will point you in the right direction.:)

SemiAutoSam
08-18-2006, 3:28 PM
Thats nothing I spent alot more on a very special lower that I just had to have. alas Ive already turned it over to be able to afford a california legal HK308 rifle.

Fjold
08-18-2006, 3:29 PM
Bear in mind that some FFLs just haven't been sat down with and talked to about it. I personally tend to get 'em the benefit of the doubt at first. I'm sure the guy regularly gets guys coming in asking how much it is for select-fire, for example...


I understand that but to come out with the condescending attitude about "It's hard to write everything out for you" and then to give out wrong information about when the registration periods were, sounds exactly like the smug, arrogant, buttwipes that are one of the biggest complaints about gunshop employees that we see here on the boards.

If the guy would have said "We feel that the legality of lower recievers is too questionable for us to be involved with" or "We don't deal with lower recievers because of their legal staus" or something professional, I wouldn't have said a word about it.

But to be condescending, then to give out wrong information and then try to use that to sell the guy something else, is crap.

tpliquid1
08-18-2006, 3:35 PM
post the dealers info please.

anotherone
08-18-2006, 3:36 PM
You should go on over to www.coldwarshooters.com not only do they have a full selection of lowers to choose from but they've also got everything else. If you're in the Bay Area the San Jose Gun Exchange stocks them.

Santa Cruz Armory
08-18-2006, 4:11 PM
Check out this:

http://gunscal.com/showthread.php?t=21

and this:

http://gunscal.com/showthread.php?t=19

CALI-gula
08-18-2006, 5:40 PM
What this FFL told you makes me laugh. But if you were really going for laughs, you could have just as easily posted the following link:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976764179.htm

$2,499.00 !!! :eek: I crack up every time I see these posts on Gunsamerica.... :D

.

The SoCal Gunner
08-18-2006, 5:56 PM
If it was illegal, why did the AG try to pass a law to make them illegal? Of course the bill has been amended now but his original desire was to make all off list lowers assualt weapons so it would be illegal to possess.

dwtt
08-18-2006, 8:09 PM
Is this dealer located just north of Petaluma off Hwy 101? It sounds a lot like a certain shop I went to once. There are others in the north bay who can help you if you want a OLL.

whlgun
08-18-2006, 8:46 PM
I have had the same problem with my local FFL. They even went on to tell me that i will be a felon, and that the DOJ came into his store and said that on the 16th they are going to make all OLL assault weapons.

On a happier note i pick up my first of many lowers tom:)

CalGunsNoob
08-18-2006, 9:42 PM
Sounds like the FFL in Guerneville lol. I had a similar experience with him. He doesn't really seem very bright.

M. Sage
08-19-2006, 11:34 AM
1) He does not know what he is talking about. He has no idea that these can be built in an SB-23 compliant configuration. He may not even know about SB-23.

2) He wants to sell you a carbon-15 with a sealed magwell.

Not only that, he doesn't know how to spell Carbon.

I'd have trouble believing or buying from him because he can't even use a SPELL CHECK.

SemiAutoSam
08-19-2006, 11:36 AM
Is this dealer located just north of Petaluma off Hwy 101? It sounds a lot like a certain shop I went to once. There are others in the north bay who can help you if you want a OLL.

I would bet dollars to doughnuts your talking about a shop/ range that was called Montana Hawk.

In either Rohnert park or Cotati ?

CalGunsNoob
08-19-2006, 11:37 AM
I'll bet it's the Guerneville FFL lol

That email sounds exactly like him.

shonc99
08-19-2006, 1:24 PM
I understand that but to come out with the condescending attitude about "It's hard to write everything out for you" and then to give out wrong information about when the registration periods were, sounds exactly like the smug, arrogant, buttwipes that are one of the biggest complaints about gunshop employees that we see here on the boards.

If the guy would have said "We feel that the legality of lower recievers is too questionable for us to be involved with" or "We don't deal with lower recievers because of their legal staus" or something professional, I wouldn't have said a word about it.

But to be condescending, then to give out wrong information and then try to use that to sell the guy something else, is crap.

:mad: :mad:
I had the same thing hapen yetserday to me. I was in a local store talking to one employee about OLL's because they had stocked DSA Fal's and throughout the conversation two other employees joined in telling me that everything I personally have recieved in writing and verbaly by the DOJ was BS. Then the older of the two tells me to stop preaching to his employees about what is and isn't legal. :confused: :mad: WTF WTF WTF I didn't ask him or the second employee to butt into the conversation!!??

They continually referred to the recent Notice from the DOJ when they referred to not listing and seeking reg's to change the 'permenant'mag def. The flat out told me that the OLL that I purchased were illegal and that I was doomed.

This is now the third specific dealer that I will not EVER step foot into because of the attitudes and condescending flak I have recieved.

I am sorry for you honest, friendly dealers trying to make a living.

What I can no longer stand is gun dealers who sound more like Anti-gun liberals who do nothing but tell you how you are wrong for stepping out and forcing the system to clarify their ill written laws of which they are also affected. Laws that prohibit me from buying something don't destroy my way to make a living. Is it me or are more gun owners fighting the laws than the dealers?

artherd
08-19-2006, 6:02 PM
I wish it were that easy. Everone I have called wants nothing to do with OLL's. Furthermore SJGE wants $249 + dros and tax for one of there in stock OLL's. :eek:
I spent twenty times that to get one lower. (of course it came with a barrel and a stock, etc. but still. :)

Go see SJGE, deal with people who have the guts to take on the potential liability.

matarlegoate
08-19-2006, 6:54 PM
I would second visiting coldwarshooters.com and having them hook you up with an FFL. I am currently in my 10 day waiting period to pick up two lowers they sent me. They had an FFL all lined up for me. They have a nice selection, and a easy to use website.

My local gunshop was very aware of the OLL situation- however they professionally declined to sell any lowers after contacting a friend of theirs at DOJ. They said they knew it was legal to sell the lowers, but just didn't want to get involved with all the drama. I can respect that point of view.

PIRATE14
08-20-2006, 12:07 AM
Well......as usual these FFL r plain wrong...

I don't mind the a few words but trash talking OLL is just wrong....

There are few down here in Costa Mesa.....spouting off left and right how these OLLs are illegal.....ur going to jail.....the DOJ will take ur kids.......plain BS.

As I have said in the past all they should is wish those that take action good luck and hope you guys succeed in ur endeavors......

Smokeybehr
08-20-2006, 9:27 AM
I was in the same boat awhile back. It's funny how so many FFL's either dont know the law or are letting DOJ intimidate them. I'm sure someone on this board will point you in the right direction.:)

I had this problem when I went looking for a local FFL to do a transfer. My usual FFL wouldn't handle it, so I went looking around town. I hit the major ones first, and got the same BS. One of them was so ignorant about the situation that I didn't even bother to try and make my point to her (the FFL's partner/wife).

JPglee1
08-20-2006, 10:06 AM
I wish it were that easy. Everone I have called wants nothing to do with OLL's. Furthermore SJGE wants $249 + dros and tax for one of there in stock OLL's. :eek:

Lots of FFLs in SoCal will deal with it...

Hesperia Pawn (760-244-3338) will do them, no problem.

$40 to DROS it.


JP

MilSpec.45
08-22-2006, 11:22 AM
Thanks everyone for the help and suggestions. I found a different FFL in my area and I just ordered my first OLL. I went with a Stag from DD's Ranch. I can't wait to build it up. Thanks again for the help.