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frankym
01-18-2011, 4:25 PM
Taking a road trip somewhere and I want to take my gun with me to keep in the home we are staying in. I will obey all laws in regards to transporting, etc, of course.

My question is my friend who is driving (it is his car) is a convicted felon. Is there a possibility that either him or myself could get in trouble if I have my gun with me in his car?

tgriffin
01-18-2011, 4:43 PM
Yes. Both of you could absolutely end up in trouble. As operator of the vehicle, he is responsible for the contents of the vehicle and thus has access. You are creating a situation where a known-to-you felon has access of your firearm. Not worth the risk in my book.

Spaceghost
01-18-2011, 4:56 PM
Guns and felons don't mix. Leave him or the gun.

Veggie
01-18-2011, 5:43 PM
Just lock it in a case and he doesn't have access. One of my fav rappers had a cop wife (Chicago pd) but she had just moved to ca together and she had a gun locked in a suitcase and even though he was arrested the court said that he did not have access to the firearm.

I think your straight as long as you stay in possession of the case and key.

Dutch3
01-18-2011, 5:44 PM
Don't go on a road trip with a convicted felon.

Just saying...

Veggie
01-18-2011, 5:45 PM
Everyone makes mistakes. The Important part is whether one learned his lesson.

HechoEnEastLos
01-18-2011, 5:48 PM
Yes. Both of you could absolutely end up in trouble. As operator of the vehicle, he is responsible for the contents of the vehicle and thus has access. You are creating a situation where a known-to-you felon has access of your firearm. Not worth the risk in my book.

Bullshiitake mushrooms. If he has it legally locked in a container, then neither HE or the FELON will have access to the gun. This is why it must be locked in the first place... so nobody has access to it during transport.

The felon, on the other hand, can end up in jail for having a firearm in the the vehicle with him. Depends if the cop wants to push the issue.

Dutch3
01-18-2011, 5:50 PM
Everyone makes mistakes. The Important part is whether one learned his lesson.

Of course, but that is not as important in this situation as "does every LE agency on the path of the road trip have that information"??

tgriffin
01-18-2011, 6:57 PM
Hey "Hecho".

Might want to spend a little more time around here before calling bull****. He asked, he got my opinion.

Proof me the **** wrong or shut the **** up.

stix213
01-18-2011, 7:00 PM
Hey "Hecho".

Might want to spend a little more time around here before calling bull****. He asked, he got my opinion.

Proof me the **** wrong or shut the **** up.

I thought Veggie already proved you wrong before Hecho said anything :p

MrClamperSir
01-18-2011, 7:05 PM
There is a chance he could be arrested for knowing the gun was in the car. Whether or not the charge would stick is unknown as there are too many variables. I would ask his opinion and let him make the decision.

tgriffin
01-18-2011, 7:12 PM
Stix-

Anecdotal 'evidence' is hardly proving me wrong. Court case and transcript or it didn't happen.

Police take felon + gun VERY seriously. You think a prosecutor wouldn't find some weasel way to make the OP a felon too if they could?

Bottom line is unless there is dicta (settled case law) the OP is rolling the dice and based on my experience and research, the OP is taking a very big chance if there is a gun in the car and ANYONE has access to it while in the presence of a felon.

Glock22Fan
01-18-2011, 7:21 PM
Stix-

Anecdotal 'evidence' is hardly proving me wrong. Court case and transcript or it didn't happen.

Police take felon + gun VERY seriously. You think a prosecutor wouldn't find some weasel way to make the OP a felon too if they could?

Bottom line is unless there is dicta (settled case law) the OP is rolling the dice and based on my experience and research, the OP is taking a very big chance if there is a gun in the car and ANYONE has access to it while in the presence of a felon.

Many times on this board we have discussed similar cases, usually when a felon is cohabiting with a firearm owner. It is well recognized on this board that, provided the felon has no access to the firearm, or the key or combo to the safe it is in, then no offense is taking place. If this is true in the home, I don't see that it would be any different in a car - whoever owns it.

Note, the situation may change in a threatening environment as courts have recently ruled that a felon is allowed access when faced with a situation of possible death or serious bodily harm. Although I cannot remember the citation, it was a felon who defended himself and his g/f and the g/f's mother with the mother's firearm, kept on a shelf in the house they all lived in. It wasn't even in a safe, as it happened, but the D.A. ignored that.

I would make sure that the OP's secure case and its lock are, perhaps, even more secure than those many of us use daily and enjoy your trip. OTOH, I am not a lawyer and if you (the OP) want to be really sure, invest in 30 minutes of legal advice.


Proof me the **** wrong or shut the **** up.


Frankly, I find this not only grammatically incorrect, but also offensive. If you don't agree, then (as you started this opinion) it is on you to produce the settled case law "or shut the **** up."

stix213
01-18-2011, 7:22 PM
Stix-

Anecdotal 'evidence' is hardly proving me wrong. Court case and transcript or it didn't happen.

Police take felon + gun VERY seriously. You think a prosecutor wouldn't find some weasel way to make the OP a felon too if they could?

Bottom line is unless there is dicta (settled case law) the OP is rolling the dice and based on my experience and research, the OP is taking a very big chance if there is a gun in the car and ANYONE has access to it while in the presence of a felon.

tgriffin-

:p means I'm joking - chill dude

paul0660
01-18-2011, 7:24 PM
Bottom line is unless there is dicta (settled case law)

Meaning we are all guilty of everything unless someone else has been found not guilty of a similar accusation. Welcome to France.

It is against the law for felons to be in the possession of firearms. It is not against the law to possess a firearm in the presence of a felon. Read anything else into it, and it is just that, supposition.

tgriffin, you should include your bonafides in your signature so we know about your experience and research right off the bat.

taperxz
01-18-2011, 7:37 PM
Just my opinion, It would seem if you went down this road, it would be imperative to make sure your friend (the felon) had no access to the key or no knowledge of the combo and to have everyone reiterate that in case of LEO contact.

The law reads that you can keep the gun in and inaccessible trunk of a vehicle. However its his vehicle and he has the key!! Furthermore, since it is his vehicle, LE may look at it like it was his house. So in his house/vehicle he has a firearm in a locked container!! This could be illegal. CGF or a consult with the RIGHT gun attorney would be a great idea!

Glock22Fan
01-18-2011, 7:39 PM
Meaning we are all guilty of everything unless someone else has been found not guilty of a similar accusation. Welcome to France.

Hear, hear!

It is against the law for felons to be in the possession of firearms. It is not against the law to possess a firearm in the presence of a felon. Read anything else into it, and it is just that, supposition.

Exactly
tgriffin, you should include your bonafides in your signature so we know about your experience and research right off the bat.

I think he did :D


:D:D:D

Fjold
01-18-2011, 7:45 PM
The term that I see/hear all the time is that the driver has "care, custody and control" of the vehicle and its contents. I'd like to see more opinions.

BigDogatPlay
01-18-2011, 7:57 PM
FWIW my non-lawyerly / former LEO opinion is that if an officer can somehow articulate on paper that the felon could somehow have access to the gun, it could be a problem. Care and control of the vehicle aside, it would be a huge stretch assuming that the container is truly secure and the lawful owner of the container and it's contents has the only way into it.

It's not really likely, but why take a chance? After all we have discussions here all the time about LEOs who supposedly stretch to make cases.

My thinking is if you're going to travel with a felon, and I am sure he's a great guy who just made some bad choices along the way so please don't take it wrong, leave your firepower at home.

tgriffin
01-18-2011, 8:17 PM
I would make sure that the OP's secure case and its lock are, perhaps, even more secure than those many of us use daily and enjoy your trip. OTOH, I am not a lawyer and if you (the OP) want to be really sure, invest in 30 minutes of legal advice.

Frankly, I find this not only grammatically incorrect, but also offensive. If you don't agree, then (as you started this opinion) it is on you to produce the settled case law "or shut the **** up."

Im not a lawyer either. I agree it is well recognised that cohabitation with a felon is all well and good given a level of security to prevent access.

I have yet to see the same level of recognition given to the situation at hand. The car is not the same as the home. Especially since it is the felon's car. There are cases where a passenger has committed a crime of possession (granted usually narcotics) and the driver has been arrested along with the passenger because it was in their vehicle. Not too big of a stretch in this situation for a prosecutor to say the gun was in the vehicle, as was the key to the gun case, the felon was in control of the vehicle, and therefore in control of its contents. Big difference between that and secured cohabitation.

Another hypothetical. Police stop vehicle. Police ask felon if any weapons in car. Felon says yes. Police take passengers from vehicle and conduct search based on felon + gun. Police find secure firearm plus key in vehicle. That situation isnt going to end well for anyone.

and you can thank Iphone auto correct for the grammatical issues

tgriffin, you should include your bonafides in your signature so we know about your experience and research right off the bat.

First and foremost I dont need to provide my bonafides to you or any else thank you. Im sharing my opinion, am happy to do so as well as debate the topic at hand.

Meaning we are all guilty of everything unless someone else has been found not guilty of a similar accusation. Welcome to France.

No it does not mean we are all guilty, it means that situations are open to a prosecutors interpretation of the law (after which one maybe found guilty) and in this case I found ample reason to caution the OP and provide him my rational.

It is against the law for felons to be in the possession of firearms. It is not against the law to possess a firearm in the presence of a felon.

You are right. The question here is does the situation in and of it self provide said access.


I dont want to see the OP get in trouble. He doesnt need to become a felon himself for an honest mistake. This topic deserves the attention of a lawyer.

I apologise for suggesting Hecho needed to STFU. That was out of line.

Glock22Fan
01-18-2011, 10:49 PM
I apologise for suggesting Hecho needed to STFU. That was out of line.

I welcome and applaud your apology. In that spirit, I withdraw my suggestion on similar lines. Thank you.

Anchors
01-18-2011, 11:01 PM
I don't see how a firearm holstered on my belt can be in the possession of someone else.
I'm not saying this as an answer to your question, just more of a commentary on the criminal justice climate these days.

If it was in the center console or on the dash maybe, but my gun is my gun and me not having immediate access to it simply because I live with or hangout with a felon seems like a violation of MY right to bear arms for self-defense.
Not only that but a violation based on another person's mistakes.

Wild Squid
01-18-2011, 11:53 PM
I can't believe you even have to ask this question. Either don't go anywhere with him or leave the gun at home. That is the only choice. Forget about that crap some people are saying to have it in a locked container. That's just plain stupid. Jesus Christ.

Dragunov
01-19-2011, 12:01 AM
Taking a road trip somewhere and I want to take my gun with me to keep in the home we are staying in. I will obey all laws in regards to transporting, etc, of course.

My question is my friend who is driving (it is his car) is a convicted felon. Is there a possibility that either him or myself could get in trouble if I have my gun with me in his car?

"Having my firearm in my possession in a car driven by a felon" = EPIC FAIL!

CSACANNONEER
01-19-2011, 12:07 AM
Bullshiitake mushrooms. If he has it legally locked in a container, then neither HE or the FELON will have access to the gun. This is why it must be locked in the first place... so nobody has access to it during transport.

The felon, on the other hand, can end up in jail for having a firearm in the the vehicle with him. Depends if the cop wants to push the issue.

Sorry to break it to you but, you are 100% wrong about this. "Access" to the firearm is something that anyone with the key or combo has even if the locked container is securely locked in the trunk. It has nothing to do with imediate access while one is driving. In the case of a Felon having access to a firearm, I know of a case where the Felon was "rolled up" because there was a secured firearm in his parent home several counties away. His PO still made the claim that he could go to his parents home, unlock the container and "access" the firearm. Before you call BS on someone else's thoughts, you might want to check your "facts" and have some sort of supporting evidence to back your claim. In this instance, I bet you can not find anything but some mushrooms to support your claim.

jak77
01-19-2011, 1:08 AM
I wouldnt take a gun in a car with a felon. Let alone the felon's car.

BillCA
01-19-2011, 2:12 AM
Sorry to break it to you but, you are 100% wrong about this. "Access" to the firearm is something that anyone with the key or combo has even if the locked container is securely locked in the trunk. It has nothing to do with imediate access while one is driving. In the case of a Felon having access to a firearm, I know of a case where the Felon was "rolled up" because there was a secured firearm in his parent home several counties away. His PO still made the claim that he could go to his parents home, unlock the container and "access" the firearm. Before you call BS on someone else's thoughts, you might want to check your "facts" and have some sort of supporting evidence to back your claim. In this instance, I bet you can not find anything but some mushrooms to support your claim.

In a case like that, the DA likely has evidence that the felon has the combination to the safe or knows where the key to the container is kept. Otherwise, we lock up all ex-felons because they could walk into a gunshop and run out with a firearm. :rolleyes:

Be sure your ex-felon friend has served all of his time and has no parole or probation restrictions (i.e. being searchable without a warrant) before you go.

While I'm not wild about the idea of riding with an ex-felon in his car with my gun about the only way I can think of protecting both parties is this;
- Secure the unloaded gun in the gun container.
- Use the key to lock the container.
- Add an additional keyed padlock (if possible) to secure the container.
- The gun owner pockets the keys.
- Attach a luggage tag, laminated buisness card or other ID to the case.
- Secure the ammo separately. I'd use a locked briefcase for it.

In this case, should a LEO search the car, the locked container is clearly marked as the property of the passenger. It is securely locked and the passenger is the only one with keys that fit the locks. Those keys are in his pocket and no copies are floating around out of his possession.

The car's owner only needs to know that the container is part of the OP's luggage. Just as he doesn't know if there is Colgate or Crest toothpaste in the OP's locked suitcase, he doesn't know the contents of this "luggage" either. The OP should respectfully refuse to answer any questions as to the contents of his luggage or if there are firearms in the vehicle.

If the officer recognizes the case as a "gun case" and sees the driver is a felon, he may want the case opened. If so, let him obtain a warrant.

An anxious DA might attempt to claim that the felon could "forcibly remove" the keys to obtain access to the weapon. So might he forcibly remove a firearm from an officer's holster, so why not just arrest him for being near a cop?

packnrat
01-19-2011, 7:36 AM
dump the felon....or the gun.

only one in the car, legal or not it could cause more problems then you want.
why push the fact.

with that said i believe even a convected felon still has the birth right to protect them selves.
some parts of the laws are bad, and need to be removed.
now some felons will get a gun (any source) and do crime.
some felons will never do a crime again theirs was probably just bad luck.
pending who your "friend" is...do you really want and need to put him..and you into such a legal area? how bad do you not want to own any guns? a hiper anti da, or looking to get elected will mess up your year.

Operator
01-19-2011, 10:28 AM
In a case like that, the DA likely has evidence that the felon has the combination to the safe or knows where the key to the container is kept. Otherwise, we lock up all ex-felons because they could walk into a gunshop and run out with a firearm. :rolleyes:

Be sure your ex-felon friend has served all of his time and has no parole or probation restrictions (i.e. being searchable without a warrant) before you go.

While I'm not wild about the idea of riding with an ex-felon in his car with my gun about the only way I can think of protecting both parties is this;
- Secure the unloaded gun in the gun container.
- Use the key to lock the container.
- Add an additional keyed padlock (if possible) to secure the container.
- The gun owner pockets the keys.
- Attach a luggage tag, laminated buisness card or other ID to the case.
- Secure the ammo separately. I'd use a locked briefcase for it.

In this case, should a LEO search the car, the locked container is clearly marked as the property of the passenger. It is securely locked and the passenger is the only one with keys that fit the locks. Those keys are in his pocket and no copies are floating around out of his possession.

The car's owner only needs to know that the container is part of the OP's luggage. Just as he doesn't know if there is Colgate or Crest toothpaste in the OP's locked suitcase, he doesn't know the contents of this "luggage" either. The OP should respectfully refuse to answer any questions as to the contents of his luggage or if there are firearms in the vehicle.

If the officer recognizes the case as a "gun case" and sees the driver is a felon, he may want the case opened. If so, let him obtain a warrant.

An anxious DA might attempt to claim that the felon could "forcibly remove" the keys to obtain access to the weapon. So might he forcibly remove a firearm from an officer's holster, so why not just arrest him for being near a cop?


This one has my vote for winner.
But made me think about another question, similar topic, but rather than high jack the OP's thread...

CCW and Felon Proximity (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=5648199#post5648199)

E Pluribus Unum
01-19-2011, 10:34 AM
Don't go on a road trip with a convicted felon.

Just saying...

Odds are very good that you have committed a felony in your lifetime; you just were not caught.

Also: People change.

Just saying....

just4fun63
01-19-2011, 11:47 AM
I'm sure your friend is a great guy because I have a couple of good friends who made dumb mistakes way back.
you are taking a chance, in terms of search and seizure car are waay different than homes!
Just to clarify he's not on parole or probation correct? Cause that would be bad!
If you choose to make this trip just remember to make sure the car is registered the tail and brake lights work and you drive within the vehicle code. don't give an officer the opportunity to pull you over and the rest of this discussion is irrelevant

Glock22Fan
01-19-2011, 12:05 PM
I can't believe you even have to ask this question. Either don't go anywhere with him or leave the gun at home. That is the only choice. Forget about that crap some people are saying to have it in a locked container. That's just plain stupid. Jesus Christ.


Golly gosh, you had better leave your firearm at home all the time. Just think, you might have it in a locked case and sit down on a park bench near a felon! Or maybe in a metro train or bus. Heaven forbid! And really, CCW holders had better make sure that they never carry in the vicinity of felons. Never in the same store or coffee shop. How about all those UOC people in Starbucks! And loaded too, outside California. Maybe we should tattoo a large red "F" on their heads, so we know who they are!

Really, be paranoid if you like, but that's what I think this advice is. :TFH::TFH::TFH:

MindBuilder
01-19-2011, 12:30 PM
I don't know if it is relevant, but it is illegal for felons to employ armed guards. I don't know if it is illegal for felons to travel with armed volunteers or friends, but I'd say it is worth checking. There is probably precedent on the issue.

If there is evidence that the owner/driver of a vehicle knows that illegal substances are being transported by a vehicle occupant, then it seems very likely that the owner would be found to be guilty of something like possession or transport. But if the owner/driver knows that an occupant is in possession of a legal item, I don't know if the driver would be considered to be in possession of the legal item. For example, if I'm riding in someone's vehicle, is the driver in possession of my id card in my wallet in my pocket? I doubt it.

What if a sheriff broke down on a remote road and a passerby offered a ride. If the sheriff put some evidence he had been carrying in a locked case and took the ride, would he have to list the driver in the chain of custody for the evidence?

What if you ride a bus and keep the locked box on your lap? Is the driver in possession of what you carry? Or is there some exception for common carriers? What about an owner/operator cab driver? Is he in custody of your luggage? Can felons be cab drivers?

Jack L
01-19-2011, 12:46 PM
Taking a road trip somewhere and I want to take my gun with me to keep in the home we are staying in. I will obey all laws in regards to transporting, etc, of course.

My question is my friend who is driving (it is his car) is a convicted felon. Is there a possibility that either him or myself could get in trouble if I have my gun with me in his car?


Sounds like an exciting journey. Make videos and send updates. Life ain't much if you do not live on the edge.

Oh, by the way, make sure you keep your lawyers phone number handy.

Skoonie
01-19-2011, 1:05 PM
Odds are very good that you have committed a felony in your lifetime; you just were not caught.

Also: People change.

Just saying....

^^^ This!

I find it ironic how everybody bashes the felon buddy like there is nobody here that has ever committed a felony and just not been caught! I bet a large portion of this board has committed a felony and possibly didn't even know it with the firearms laws in Ca. I know I have! My advise would be for your buddy to call his last or current PO and get his opinion on the matter since any violation would more than likely involve his PO at some point.

prc104
01-19-2011, 2:11 PM
You had stated that:

"My question is my friend who is driving (it is his car) is a convicted felon."

Just curious if he's on parole? or completed his sentence.

Jack L
01-19-2011, 2:11 PM
I sense few here are really trashing a felon but keen on what LE would enforce if the weapon and felon were placed together.

SteveH
01-19-2011, 6:30 PM
Add me to the list of people who believes hanging out with convicted felons is foolish, bringing a gun while doing so is more foolish and advertising it on the internet is poor opsec.

SteveH
01-19-2011, 6:34 PM
^^^ This!

I find it ironic how everybody bashes the felon buddy like there is nobody here that has ever committed a felony and just not been caught! I bet a large portion of this board has committed a felony and possibly didn't even know it with the firearms laws in Ca. I know I have! My advise would be for your buddy to call his last or current PO and get his opinion on the matter since any violation would more than likely involve his PO at some point.

I would bet I've spent more time in court rooms that just about anyone but the lawyers here. I've seen how hard is is to actually get convicted of a felony in this state. Between wobblers, diversion, spit and aquit, drug court and plead bargains you have to try pretty hard to get convicted of a felony in this state.

You can steal cars, sell dope, get caught with illegal weapons, ect...repeatedly and not have a felony conviction on your record. Those do do have one are usually well deserved. They worked hard for the title felon.

HechoEnEastLos
01-19-2011, 6:40 PM
Hey "Hecho".

Might want to spend a little more time around here before calling bull****. He asked, he got my opinion.

Proof me the **** wrong or shut the **** up.

Many times on this board we have discussed similar cases, usually when a felon is cohabiting with a firearm owner. It is well recognized on this board that, provided the felon has no access to the firearm, or the key or combo to the safe it is in, then no offense is taking place. If this is true in the home, I don't see that it would be any different in a car - whoever owns it.

Note, the situation may change in a threatening environment as courts have recently ruled that a felon is allowed access when faced with a situation of possible death or serious bodily harm. Although I cannot remember the citation, it was a felon who defended himself and his g/f and the g/f's mother with the mother's firearm, kept on a shelf in the house they all lived in. It wasn't even in a safe, as it happened, but the D.A. ignored that.

I would make sure that the OP's secure case and its lock are, perhaps, even more secure than those many of us use daily and enjoy your trip. OTOH, I am not a lawyer and if you (the OP) want to be really sure, invest in 30 minutes of legal advice.



Frankly, I find this not only grammatically incorrect, but also offensive. If you don't agree, then (as you started this opinion) it is on you to produce the settled case law "or shut the **** up."

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT09uQ-WAYjnUTvmZFA5jWI20N7BAyDLIx3bJbm--lT_Wtz7ceXa0WuLYIp

HechoEnEastLos
01-19-2011, 6:48 PM
Sorry to break it to you but, you are 100% wrong about this. "Access" to the firearm is something that anyone with the key or combo has even if the locked container is securely locked in the trunk. It has nothing to do with imediate access while one is driving. In the case of a Felon having access to a firearm, I know of a case where the Felon was "rolled up" because there was a secured firearm in his parent home several counties away. His PO still made the claim that he could go to his parents home, unlock the container and "access" the firearm. Before you call BS on someone else's thoughts, you might want to check your "facts" and have some sort of supporting evidence to back your claim. In this instance, I bet you can not find anything but some mushrooms to support your claim.

Read the rest of my post. Here, let me help you.
The felon, on the other hand, can end up in jail for having a firearm in the the vehicle with him. Depends if the cop wants to push the issue.

Point of my post was the owner of the firearm, if legally being transported and what not, can not get in trouble for having a felon in the car. I was answering what the OP was asking.

K thx bai.

Anchors
01-19-2011, 7:03 PM
Sorry to break it to you but, you are 100% wrong about this. "Access" to the firearm is something that anyone with the key or combo has even if the locked container is securely locked in the trunk. It has nothing to do with imediate access while one is driving. In the case of a Felon having access to a firearm, I know of a case where the Felon was "rolled up" because there was a secured firearm in his parent home several counties away. His PO still made the claim that he could go to his parents home, unlock the container and "access" the firearm. Before you call BS on someone else's thoughts, you might want to check your "facts" and have some sort of supporting evidence to back your claim. In this instance, I bet you can not find anything but some mushrooms to support your claim.

If that is true, then I feel like that felon got hosed and justice was not served.
So his parents shouldn't be allowed to own firearms a county away because they have a stupid son?
Sounds like a violation of their rights and his (however limited) rights.
He still has the right to due process, even if that doesn't include owning firearms.

Odds are very good that you have committed a felony in your lifetime; you just were not caught.

Also: People change.

Just saying....

Very true. People do change.
I would bet most people have committed one felony or another, whether it was intentional or not.
You should really check out some of the things that are felonies. You would be surprised by many (aside from the obvious ones).

I would bet I've spent more time in court rooms that just about anyone but the lawyers here. I've seen how hard is is to actually get convicted of a felony in this state. Between wobblers, diversion, spit and aquit, drug court and plead bargains you have to try pretty hard to get convicted of a felony in this state.

You can steal cars, sell dope, get caught with illegal weapons, ect...repeatedly and not have a felony conviction on your record. Those do do have one are usually well deserved. They worked hard for the title felon.

It is hard if you have money for a lawyer.
When you're a poor kid and you do something really stupid, you might not be so lucky.
Also, just because CA says "Okay we're charging it as a misdemeanor" doesn't mean the Feds don't consider you to have a felony.
Just saying.

Anchors
01-19-2011, 7:08 PM
Also, so does this really mean when my friend gets out of prison in February and I go back home to see him I can't CCW near him?
I lose MY (still intact) right to carry my firearm for self-defense because of another person's actions?
I mean if I left it on his coffee table I could see that, but strapped to my side where he can't touch it at all?
Really lame. I have to risk my safety to hangout with my friend.
(who by the way was involved in a bad situation, but the felonies were other people's doing. They just turned it on him before he could tell the authorities how it actually happened. No one got in trouble but him. So don't assume he is a crack smoking rapist baby killer).

The Electrician
01-19-2011, 7:14 PM
Money turns felonies into a misdemeanor!!!

chefjef
01-19-2011, 9:24 PM
maybe this is a silly question, but couldn't the felon-friend contact his (former?) PO and ask him?

or another possibly silly question- can't you mail it to the destination to avoid all this?

either way, this is an interesting topic =)

Anchors
01-19-2011, 11:45 PM
maybe this is a silly question, but couldn't the felon-friend contact his (former?) PO and ask him?

or another possibly silly question- can't you mail it to the destination to avoid all this?

either way, this is an interesting topic =)

Well if he is going to be hanging out with him then it won't matter if he mails it.
Stupid.
Should I ask people around me at the taco stand if they are felons because they are in possession of the gun on my holster.

chefjef
01-20-2011, 12:01 AM
Well if he is going to be hanging out with him then it won't matter if he mails it.
Stupid.
Should I ask people around me at the taco stand if they are felons because they are in possession of the gun on my holster.

ummmm, not sure what you're talking about, hanging out and being at taco stands. my questions were referring to the original poster's question about driving. also, i hope you're not calling me stupid, that would just be rude.

Anchors
01-20-2011, 12:32 AM
ummmm, not sure what you're talking about, hanging out and being at taco stands. my questions were referring to the original poster's question about driving. also, i hope you're not calling me stupid, that would just be rude.

Easy dude. I wasn't calling you stupid.
I'm calling the situation were a citizen who can legally carry a firearm can't do so because he is around/hanging out with a felon stupid.

Jack L
01-20-2011, 8:49 AM
The bottom line is what would happen if a LEO ran you both for some minor thing. He finds you have a handgun and your buddy is a felon. At the least a trip to jail until he gets it straight. At worst some a-hole LEO and double a-hole DA tries to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

Might also depend on what the felony was for and the attitude of both of you when the cuffs go on.

While it may suck and be infringing on your legal rights, life on the street with LE is often no mans land.

Hopalong
01-20-2011, 10:11 AM
I don't know how a person is supposed to know everything about the background of someone he may end up in a car with.

Glock22Fan
01-20-2011, 10:42 AM
I don't know how a person is supposed to know everything about the background of someone he may end up in a car with.

Exactly. Does anyone refuse a cab until the cabbie proves they are not a felon? (maybe there's some law about cabbies, I don't know). How about shuttle busses? Metro passengers, car pools? What if a co-worker offers you a lift to the car dealers to pick up your car? What if your brother (who isn't a felon) offers you a lift and there's a third person you don't know well in the car?

Maybe some of you don't want to risk a trip to the station to sort it out, but I bet many of you are those who insist that they must stand up for their rights in other directions, such as UOC, and regard nay-sayers as traitors.

It may be unwise, but there is no law prohibiting association with felons.

There is nothing in p.c.12050 or in 12026.1 or whatever that mentions that being in the vicinity of felons negates your rights to have a firearm. The only thing is that felons must not have access to a firearm. A (key) locked case or a properly concealed firearm should avoid this problem. Do they sue felons for having access to the firearm of the cop that arrests them? Of course not.

Get into trouble and one phone call to Jason, Don, Chuck or whoever you choose should get you out in no time flat.

And remember, the LEO will only know you have a gun if you tell him, or if he has other probable cause for a search (such as the felon is still under parole). You could probably go a lifetime of cruising with a felon and not even have the firearm discovered.

erik_26
01-20-2011, 10:47 AM
Well if it the second Tuesday of the month and there a half moon directly overhead at 2 am and it is February 31, then yes all felons can have gun….

OP, I am not saying anyone is right or anyone is wrong. I will say that I don’t know the answer. Be leery of responses that have “I think” in them. Not that they are wrong but use extreme caution when considering the all the advice.

The best advice I can offer is to contact a lawyer and/or a Law Enforcement Department and ask them.

If this is too much work for you, then do as someone mentioned before…. Leave him or the gun behind. Or take the risk. You are the only one that can make that decision. You will be the only one to suffer the consequences, if any.

Like I said before, I don’t know the answer. But if I was a judge and you told me, “people on Calguns said,” I wouldn’t buy it.

Good luck.

BigDogatPlay
01-20-2011, 10:48 AM
The bottom line is what would happen if a LEO ran you both for some minor thing. He finds you have a handgun and your buddy is a felon. At the least a trip to jail until he gets it straight. At worst some a-hole LEO and double a-hole DA tries to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

Might also depend on what the felony was for and the attitude of both of you when the cuffs go on.

While it may suck and be infringing on your legal rights, life on the street with LE is often no mans land.

As I mentioned in the other thread, running criminal history to determine someone's status as a felon is not something that can be routinely done on the street, and a felon clear of parole is under no obligation to self identify.A simple wants / warrants or DL check is not going to tumble out a full criminal history. There is a higher level of justification that is required for running criminal history and each request is logged and is auditable by DoJ.

For those agencies with more sophisticated RMS systems, past felony arrests would certainly tumble out on a local record check, but not the dispositions. If the officer has personal knowledge of the contact's felon status, that's another story.

But I think that you are making a great leap with your statements, especially when you trot out "a-hole LEO" and "double a-hole DA". Makes me think you don't have anything other than an axe to grind.

Common sense, at least so far as I know, didn't leave the business when I retired. There is still plenty of it out there.

Jack L
01-20-2011, 11:13 AM
As I mentioned in the other thread, running criminal history to determine someone's status as a felon is not something that can be routinely done on the street, and a felon clear of parole is under no obligation to self identify.A simple wants / warrants or DL check is not going to tumble out a full criminal history. There is a higher level of justification that is required for running criminal history and each request is logged and is auditable by DoJ.

For those agencies with more sophisticated RMS systems, past felony arrests would certainly tumble out on a local record check, but not the dispositions. If the officer has personal knowledge of the contact's felon status, that's another story.

But I think that you are making a great leap with your statements, especially when you trot out "a-hole LEO" and "double a-hole DA". Makes me think you don't have anything other than an axe to grind.

Common sense, at least so far as I know, didn't leave the business when I retired. There is still plenty of it out there.


Personally, I see rights violated all the time when reading cases posted on this site. I don't trust anyone with arresting powers and try to stay in stealth mode. I wish everyone here luck when dealing with LEOs, DA's, Judges, especially if you are relying on a public defender.

I hope common sense does prevail at some point now that most municipalities and states (not to mention Washington DC) are broke.

Eagle Eyes
01-20-2011, 11:56 AM
After reading all the posts just want to put my 2 cents in here.

I am a Gunsmith and I follow 3 simple rules that seems to have worked for me all these years both personally and professionally:

" If in doubt don't do it "

" Plan for the worst and hope for the best "

" In life you can't have everything and you need to make your choices carefully "

Now just to address some of the comments I have seen:

Even thought the law allows a felon to co-habitate with someone as long as they don't have access to the weapon, locked up in a safe with a key or combination that the felon has no access to, most have forgotten to mention it must be a FIXED in place safe. In other words locking it up in a handgun box stuffed into a closet still gives the felon access as they could pick it up and walk out the door and in most cases easliy defeat the lock.

In the case of a vehicle it is true if the Felon is driving his vehicle with a firearm in it, then he IS technically in possesion of a firearm and everything else in the vehicle. This is specially true if you have the firearm locked up in a box that is able to be pickup up and moved around easily (unless of course you welded a safe into his trunk and he did not know the combination).

There is no law thats says felons can not be around law abiding citizens that legally have a firearm in their possesion, just other felons. So if your friend is a felon and you have a CCW then you have broken no law.

BUT .... remember one of the requirments to have a CCW in California is to be of "good morale character". If you associate with felons and they get arrested for anything the CCW issuing agency could call into question your "good morale character" when it come time for a renewal ...... especially if your friend was arrested while you were there and they checked out if your CCW permit was legal.

The simple point that should be made is related to quote #1 and quote #3 above:

For instance you have a friend deathly allergic to animal hairs but you have indoor animals. If you want to stay friends then you make the choice that either:

A) You give up your pets. ( you give up your right to own pets )

B) You never bring the friend to your place and have to meet them somewhere else. ( you give up your right to stay at home )


Of course you have the example of having kids, that you give up your right to have a weapon at the ready in your home so your kids don't shoot themselves.

So while it is tough to give up on rights you have ...... in life choices have to be made and rights given up to find a balance for you to pursue your happiness.

You want to have a felon for a friend/wife/husband/ etc. then you have to be prepared to give something up. The problems I see to often is everyone wants everything all the time and no one wants to give up anything.

If you plan to live a stress free and happy life there will be always something you need to give up, heck EVERY married person can confirm that :D

frankym
01-20-2011, 12:29 PM
Thanks for the (normal) responses. I was simply asking for your advice and educated opinions. No need to get your panties in a bunch.

Since there is no clear cut answer and it seems to be a gray area, I will be leaving the firearm at home.

As stated in the post above, I'm willing to bet that a good percentage of this board has committed some type of felony at one point or another and were just not caught. The guy learned his lesson.