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View Full Version : Do u think new full autos will ever be sold? Why?


resident-shooter
01-17-2011, 11:39 PM
So recently I read a few opinions on unbanning the sales of the new full autos in US and most people seem to be pessimistic about it. What are your thoughts? Hopes?

Carnivore
01-17-2011, 11:45 PM
Would love to see it personally but I just don't see it happening. Unless something extraordinary happens people are just not going to get behind that in large enough numbers. This is one of those "even people that call themselves 2A backers" don't want to see that for what ever reason their minds wrap themselves around. To be honest most people don't even know that private citizens can own full auto weapons. I keep hearing the "you need a class III license for that" argument. I guess they like to think they "know" something about it by proving they don't.

tozan
01-17-2011, 11:47 PM
You still can buy Full Autos that are brand new still in the box..

ke6guj
01-17-2011, 11:50 PM
You still can buy Full Autos that are brand new still in the box..

but not anything designed in the last 25years

kcbrown
01-17-2011, 11:55 PM
No way. If there's anything the courts will consider to be a "reasonable restriction", it'll be a ban on full auto weapons.

Turo
01-17-2011, 11:55 PM
I don't think 10 or even 20 years is a long enough time span, but if the pro-gun movement continues to accelerate at the rate it is now, full auto ownership by private citizens will happen. A few things have to happen though. First, the NFA of '34 needs to be repealed, and the '86 machine gun act. Plus a whole host of other laws need to be removed. Basically, when every US citizen can say, "The 2nd Amendment is not being infringed" you and I will be able to walk in to the nearest Big 5, grab an UZI off the shelf and walk out with it. Until then, move to Somalia.

CCWFacts
01-18-2011, 12:14 AM
I think it will happen, if the NRA membership starts to want it.

20 years ago I would have thought that it would be impossible for CCW reform to happen outside of a handful of states. Now, today, we are within months of a national reciprocity bill which will make the entire US shall-issue (although not for residents of about 8 states while within their state of residence, who will have to wait a bit longer).

When the AWB passed in 1994, I knew about the sunset provision but I thought it would be passed permanently before it expired. In 2004, it expired, and was politically impossible to pass, despite the whining of some nutcases in Congress.

10 years ago I would never have thought any state other than Vermont would be "constitutional carry", and Vermont only got it by a freak court case 100 years ago. This year there will be five states which are constitutional carry, and next year probably several more.

All these things happened because the NRA membership collectively decided, "these are the way things should be", and there was also a general acceptance, or at least tolerance, of gun rights even among the non-gun-owning population.

If awareness of NFA issues can improve over the next few years, it can and will happen. The groundwork is being laid, on this forum and many other places.

Take your non-shooting friends to the range!!!!

Anchors
01-18-2011, 12:19 AM
No, why. If the man in AZ had one, a hundred people would be dead.
That guy in Texas that messed around and dropped the gun and shot that old woman in the hip would have taken out several people if he had a full auto handgun. Story after story cements the myth in the minds of the anti's that guns are bad, but full auto would cause the end of our country. The rest of the states will be lucky to keep their high cap magazines let alone make auto weapons legal. Don't forget, it was a law maker that got shot and a judge killed. When those folks are afraid of guns, we are all in trouble.

I can't tell if you provide those stories as examples of what antis think or how you feel about full-auto ownership.
For the record, I could legally buy a machine gun in Arizona tomorrow (literally, I am a resident there and there is an NFA dealer right next to Scottsdale Gun Club).

CCWFacts
01-18-2011, 12:22 AM
If the man in AZ had one, a hundred people would be dead.

No way. It would have saved lives. I've take courses on full-autos. Without some practice, you hit the first shot, the second shot goes over the guy's head, and the rest of the magazine flies off into the clear blue sky.

If that madman (who seems to have had no prior shooting experience) had had a Glock 18, he would killed one person and put 30 holes in the ceiling within 3 seconds.

Anchors
01-18-2011, 12:24 AM
No way. It would have saved lives. I've take courses on full-autos. Without some practice, you hit the first shot, the second shot goes over the guy's head, and the rest of the magazine flies off into the clear blue sky.

If that madman had had a Glock 18, he would killed one person and put 30 holes in the ceiling within 3 seconds.

Yeah, I don't know how someone decided full-auto was somehow extra deadly.

CCWFacts
01-18-2011, 12:31 AM
Yeah, I don't know how someone decided full-auto was somehow extra deadly.

WWI, Bonnie and Clyde, Prohibition

nick
01-18-2011, 12:32 AM
Yeah, I don't know how someone decided full-auto was somehow extra deadly.

Nobody did, actually. They were the low-hanging fruit for the NFA, as few people owned them due to their price (back in the day).

stix213
01-18-2011, 12:34 AM
The bank robbers in the north hollywood shootout had FA's, and they were the only ones who died. Semi-auto is actually more dangerous IMO. I don't see the laws changing though. I'd put CA also at a big fat never.

santacruzstefan
01-18-2011, 1:02 AM
I shot an MP-5 once, dumped the whole mag, and its was quite controllable/ accurate. Perhaps because its 9mm?

locosway
01-18-2011, 1:07 AM
The bank robbers in the north hollywood shootout had FA's, and they were the only ones who died. Semi-auto is actually more dangerous IMO. I don't see the laws changing though. I'd put CA also at a big fat never.

FWIW, the North Hollywood shootout was more of a show.

Merc1138
01-18-2011, 1:16 AM
I shot an MP-5 once, dumped the whole mag, and its was quite controllable/ accurate. Perhaps because its 9mm?

Yeah, it's 9mm in a platform that's quite a bit heavier than a basic pistol.(yes, I've also dumped magazines from a full auto mp5 before, it's definitely fun)

Regardless of that, plenty of criminals already know how to convert weapons to full auto, or at least make them able to dump a mag. Like usual all it does is stop law abiding citizens. Maybe the only issue I see arising is the amount of jackwads having a negligent discharge becoming a bigger issue than only firing one shot, because some idiot is going to try and clean his gun with a loaded magazine and round in the chamber with the thing set to full(some of these people would probably earn their darwin awards via other means anyway). Yeah, that'll probably happen. Will it become an epidemic? No. These types of things already happen with the current laws anyway. I don't see masses of gang bangers going to the gun shop and paying the $200 NFA tax stamp to buy full auto weapons either, heck they don't legally buy semi auto weapons as it is anyway a lot of the time.

epwegmann
01-18-2011, 1:27 AM
I gotta say it's doubtful. It's kind of hard to sell that general public need's something that is designed to lay suppressive fire, sorry. Yeah, they are fun; I love the hell out of some full auto, but I really have to say I'll feel safer knowing that that kind of capability isn't at everyones disposal.
~Erik

P.S. Take my word on this one, you'll want to stay away from Somalia; even if you can buy a FA AK for about 15$.....

Turo
01-18-2011, 1:32 AM
I gotta say it's doubtful. It's kind of hard to sell that general public need's something that is designed to lay suppressive fire, sorry.

There's that word, need. I don't need full auto guns, I WANT them. And the 2nd amendment says that my right to have them "Shall not be infringed."

Yeah, they are fun; I love the hell out of some full auto, but I really have to say I'll feel safer knowing that that kind of capability isn't at everyones disposal.
~Erik
Good thing the 2nd amendment doesn't have the qualifier, "Unless somebody 'feels' safer without firearms."

GM4spd
01-18-2011, 3:33 AM
There's that word, need. I don't need full auto guns, I WANT them. And the 2nd amendment says that my right to have them "Shall not be infringed."



Good luck with that point.:rolleyes: Pete

753X0
01-18-2011, 4:32 AM
If it ever does come to pass, it won't be because these two laws are repealed. It will be on account of them being found unconstitutional infringements of 2A.

jaymz
01-18-2011, 5:14 AM
I'd say it's possible, but you don't have an option for anywhere between 20 years and never. We're making progress, but there are many things that need to come first.

AJAX22
01-18-2011, 5:24 AM
Just for the reccord, a standard semi automatic glock can be converted to fully automatic using a small drop in rear plate that any muffler shop can make in about 1/2 hour if they have never seen one before.... 10 min or less if they know how it works ahead of time.

If the shooter had actually wanted full auto function he could have googled it and made it a reality a helluva lot easier and cheaper than filing his propper ATF conversion paperwork.

And if that ccw guy had a machine gun he dropped it would have NOT gone off... Pocket sizes full autos have redundant safeties to prevent accidental discharge...

The reason his gun went off was because it was a derringer... And many derringers have exposesd hammers with no positive safety or firing pin block.

The stuff you see in the movies is bull****....

Cali-Shooter
01-18-2011, 5:55 AM
This thread is too painful to look at.

badicedog
01-18-2011, 7:17 AM
I fully understand that "we" don't need F/A firearms. Most here want them and are willing to legally acquire them(in free states). My question is why does a PD department (LAPD) have a squad automatic M249 in it's inventory? What possible justification could there be? Just another step toward militarization of our PDs. Rant over...

Bhobbs
01-18-2011, 7:18 AM
I say yes. It is all a matter of perspective. Right now it doesn't seem possible but how many people ever thought we would have AR15s after the CA AW ban? How many people thought we would ever even have the 2A incorporated against the states?

It will take time but I believe we will at least have the '86 amendment overturned so we can buy new FAs.

ZombieTactics
01-18-2011, 9:06 AM
I think that FA will eventually be legal, and new designs will be created/manufactured/sold. I also think that people will soon realize that they really aren't that useful. I expect it to be a small market, with expensive weapons, purchased mostly for collections and bragging rights.

resident-shooter
01-18-2011, 9:15 AM
This thread is too painful to look at.

Tale mee bout eet :(

I may not worry about $200 stamp or the registraiton so much, but '86 outright ban must go for sure.

12voltguy
01-18-2011, 9:41 AM
I think that FA will eventually be legal, and new designs will be created/manufactured/sold. I also think that people will soon realize that they really aren't that useful. I expect it to be a small market, with expensive weapons, purchased mostly for collections and bragging rights.

full auto versions of std semis cost about .25cents more to make

only reason a $700 ar 15 in full auto is $15,000 is because it has to be pre 1986
cops don't pay $15,000 for a pre 86, they buy new ones
And the $@00 tax stamp per full auto & suppressors was started in 1934....pretty sure that was way to high a tax in order to prevent 99.999% of the people from ever being able to purchase...but since that tax never went up & is still $200 today, people don't think of it as a real high tax price


if people want to argue they feel safer with no full autos, then they may want to ban all but single shot to feel real safe....it's called FREEDOM, if you want to feel safe, then you will need to give all your freedom up to the goverment & let them controll everything, the cost of freedom is.....you fill in the rest........the g=ov has no right to tell anyone who I can sell my tools to, or my guns, but they do.+ they tax us on top of that:eek:

FeuerFrei
01-18-2011, 10:10 AM
2A is a guarantee. Like all other rights stipulated in the U.S. Constitution + BOR.
I really can't see why any gun owner would want to restrict gun ownership on any other citizen...ever. Citizen's should have the right to choose what weapon to defend themselves with.
If a citizen can own one type of firearm then they should be able to own anything they choose regardless of what it looks like or how it operates.
If you want to CC a flintlock then go for it. If a woman wants to strap on a folding stock SBR because it makes her feel safer then that's cool too.
2A means gun ownership for all citizens.
It is the citizen's responsibility to behave lawfully and reap the whirl wind if they choose to do otherwise.
Here endith the rant.

ocspeedracer
01-18-2011, 10:15 AM
I think it could happen, with what seems to me a push in big government to get back to the roots of the constitution, so I hope so.

Thesh
01-18-2011, 10:31 AM
I think it can happen, but we need to attack on two fronts. First, we need to improve public education. I have researched all sorts of data worldwide on gun control and crime rates, especially homicide rates, and I have come to the conclusion that there is no correlation whatsoever. In fact, the only thing homicide rates seem to correlate with is the rate of violent crime in general. If people realize that no amount of gun control is going to make them safer, than support for these bills will dwindle. The entire time, we need to continue push for reform of our gun laws.

The other thing we need to do is focus on reducing crime in general. Part of this is to work on things like education, justice system reform, and poverty. I feel the more we focus on these issues, the lower the overall crime rate will be. If we lower the overall crime rate, then homicide rate should go with it. We also need to look at starting non-profit organizations with the goal of actively researching why people choose a life crime, and then working on programs to try and steer people onto a more honest path.

Crime rate has been on an overall downward trend for a while, and if we can keep it up, educate the public, and push hard for reform, I think we can achieve our goals. It may not be 10 years, it may not be 20, but hopefully we can win battles along the way.

yellowfin
01-18-2011, 10:35 AM
Eliminating poverty programs is the first big step to reducing poverty and crime.

resident-shooter
01-18-2011, 11:43 AM
Eliminating poverty programs is the first big step to reducing poverty and crime.

Agreed. France had 20% unemployment rate since 2000 and it has been in recession for that long. Its simple. Why work when u can watch tv and eat cereal all day long and govt pays u? Who cares that the country has no money to develop.


Now lets get back to the subject....

Super Spy
01-18-2011, 11:55 AM
I don't see it happening anytime soon. If it does I would love a Steyr AUG 5.56.....and a few others. I can't think of a better way to deal with 4 guys bum-rushing the door in an attempted home invasion. Time for a little suppressive fire. Take that punk azz beatches!

resident-shooter
01-18-2011, 12:13 PM
^ How about tommy gun with 50 rds drum :D

Python2
01-18-2011, 1:06 PM
Yeah, it's 9mm in a platform that's quite a bit heavier than a basic pistol.(yes, I've also dumped magazines from a full auto mp5 before, it's definitely fun)

.

You guys are really tempting me:D I am scheduled to meet a gun dealer to see the quality of a Norinco clone M4 and MP5 in a couple of weeks in another country. $2,200 for and M4 and $2,700 for an MP5 including 4 year license to own and every 2 years renewal thereoff. Yes, I can as my other citizenship is in that country.:)

B Strong
01-18-2011, 2:37 PM
I can not forsee the day where a court will overturn the FOPA.

We're going to have to be satisfied with the existing pool of transferables such as they are.

vintagearms
01-18-2011, 2:48 PM
Never going to happen. I'd personally rather see suppressors taken off the NFA list (for the sake of hearing for the children) but thats not going to happen either.

Uriah02
01-18-2011, 2:53 PM
I have a friend out here with his NFA trust currently working on getting a FA Kriss, I'm pretty sure that is a new weapon...

Maddog5150
01-18-2011, 3:06 PM
No, I dont think it will ever be like it used to where you could buy a Thompson at a general store. I see a lot of people thinking within ten to twenty years, I will be very suprise if we have firearms at all in twenty or thirty. I understand we have been making a lot of baby steps forward the past few years but when the last twenty have been one step forward and two years back, its hard to think that the past five years its been one forward with none or one step back as a major improvement.
I hope we can have what we want someday. Hell I really want an SBR very badley.

resident-shooter
01-18-2011, 10:03 PM
u guys r depressing :(

NightOwl
01-19-2011, 12:16 AM
So much doubt that full auto will ever come onto the market. I agree with Resident-Shooter, you guys ARE depressing.

Pred@tor
01-19-2011, 5:24 AM
Well lots of people think of full autos as atomic weapons. Its scares them the idea of anyone being able to legally own one. Its the same crowd that think background checks should be for every single gun sale. Freedom and choice scares some people so much that they trust others to make these decisions for them. I personally voted 10 years just for the record...

AJAX22
01-19-2011, 5:45 AM
We'll get them eventually

But it's not going to happen through waiting, it's going to happen by scratching and clawing an biting every second of every day untill we win this thing.... And then we are only going to keep them by constant vigilance.

FS00008
01-19-2011, 7:58 AM
Валера, ты ужасно хаха.

I think we'll have them within the next decade. We will have to devote a bunch of hours. Ajax has taken the first step with his dedicated pursuit of the records pertaining to the Hughes Amendment that was slapped onto the FOPA.

Jaxpire
01-19-2011, 10:25 AM
I voted no. I do not think the public as a whole would support it, short of an invasion on american main land soil.

Dnikkor
01-19-2011, 11:51 AM
Suuure they will...they just won't be much fun with the 10-round magazines. :rolleyes:

resident-shooter
01-19-2011, 11:52 AM
so what do u think it will take to break the neck of '86 ban? AW ban needs to go, but what else?

yellowfin
01-19-2011, 12:09 PM
The '86 ban is on shaky ground as it is, and after two or three more Supreme Court victories it is toast IF AND ONLY IF taken care of in precisely the right way by precisely the right people with precisely the right argument in court.

resident-shooter
01-19-2011, 12:11 PM
e.z. too saye

yellowfin
01-19-2011, 12:36 PM
Let's put it this way: when average law abiding people in NYC, L.A., etc. can carry a sidearm of their choice at will and do so as a significant percentage of the population, exactly how much credibility can the anti gun nonsense possibly have when there's nobody left to believe it anymore?

resident-shooter
01-19-2011, 12:46 PM
Let's put it this way: when average law abiding people in NYC, L.A., etc. can carry a sidearm of their choice at will and do so as a significant percentage of the population, exactly how much credibility can the anti gun nonsense possibly have when there's nobody left to believe it anymore?

idk about NY, but people in LA already carry handguns of their choices and ask no one for a permission ;)

nicki
01-19-2011, 12:48 PM
We lost full autos because of a "poison pill" put into the Firearms Owners Protection Act in 1986 and we may find thanks to AJAX's efforts that maybe it wasn't actually passed.

This is an issue that I don't think the courts actually want to rule on because Full Auto's actually are the worldwide standard for "Militia Arms".

So let me lay out a few scenarios that could get us "Full Autos".

First would be a pure 2nd amendment lawsuit.

We have focused on the "individual right" part of the second amendment, but few have focused on our "Collective Responsibility" or our "Civic Duty" to be preparred for Militia service.

Since one of the primary responsibilities of the "Militia" is to defend the country from "Invasion", for the government to deny Militia members access to "arms" that are equal in capability to "invaders" is undermining the defense of the country, it is a "Treasonous Act".

For example, from documents in World War 2, the Japanese ruled out invading the mainland because of our armed society. The Volunteer "Homeguard" freed up manpower from defending to the US to winning the War.

If we had "honest judges", this would be a slam dunk, but sadly we don't.
I would not pursue this because Justice Kennedy is an unknow "Wobbler".

Second would be that it would be our poison pill attached to some must pass bill.

Obama may look, figure that even when full autos were legal, only 250,000 guns were registered over a period of 50 years. Pre 1986, the average number of FA per owner was probably at least 2 guns or more, so the number of actual owners was probably under 100,000.

Third, some kind of Machine gun amensty attached to some bill. The argument on this would be that the 1986 Hughes amendment has created a Black Market in Full autos.

What would happen is that they open the registry to give people time to come clean, well, many people would come "clean", probably alot more than expected and once that happens, full autos become common arms.

Let's say the Feds said they would accept either surrender of the gun or payment of taxes, well how many of us would buy receivers solely for the purpose of registering them for later builds.

Personally I would buy(depending on funds) at least 2 recievers for the AR15, AR10, AKs, HKs 91/93, FALs, HK MP5s, UZIs,

If the Amensty period was say 1 year and the ATF was specifically told that they will collect the tax and use the collected tax money to pay staff to process applications, they could find themselves just chugging along processing applications.

Two provisions could be added that would effectively ensure that the registry is open permianently:

First, a provision in the law could say that in the registration period would automatically be extended until the ATF gets the processing time under 30 calender days.

Second, in the event that more than 1 million guns become newly registered full autos, it is self evident that the prohibition didn't work and it is critical to public safety to keep the registry open to reduce a black market customer base for full auto arms.

The reality is other countries do allow civilian ownership of Full Autos.

Hell, we allow the Iraqi's to retain ownership of their full auto AK47s and the reality is many parts of Iraq are becoming functional inspite of universal ownership of FULL AUTO ARMS.

In Iraq, the AK47 is the "commonly owned" arm.

Nicki

resident-shooter
01-19-2011, 1:08 PM
We lost full autos because of a "poison pill" put into the Firearms Owners Protection Act in 1986 and we may find thanks to AJAX's efforts that maybe it wasn't actually passed.

This is an issue that I don't think the courts actually want to rule on because Full Auto's actually are the worldwide standard for "Militia Arms".

So let me lay out a few scenarios that could get us "Full Autos".

First would be a pure 2nd amendment lawsuit.

We have focused on the "individual right" part of the second amendment, but few have focused on our "Collective Responsibility" or our "Civic Duty" to be preparred for Militia service.

Since one of the primary responsibilities of the "Militia" is to defend the country from "Invasion", for the government to deny Militia members access to "arms" that are equal in capability to "invaders" is undermining the defense of the country, it is a "Treasonous Act".

For example, from documents in World War 2, the Japanese ruled out invading the mainland because of our armed society. The Volunteer "Homeguard" freed up manpower from defending to the US to winning the War.

If we had "honest judges", this would be a slam dunk, but sadly we don't.
I would not pursue this because Justice Kennedy is an unknow "Wobbler".

Second would be that it would be our poison pill attached to some must pass bill.

Obama may look, figure that even when full autos were legal, only 250,000 guns were registered over a period of 50 years. Pre 1986, the average number of FA per owner was probably at least 2 guns or more, so the number of actual owners was probably under 100,000.

Third, some kind of Machine gun amensty attached to some bill. The argument on this would be that the 1986 Hughes amendment has created a Black Market in Full autos.

What would happen is that they open the registry to give people time to come clean, well, many people would come "clean", probably alot more than expected and once that happens, full autos become common arms.

Let's say the Feds said they would accept either surrender of the gun or payment of taxes, well how many of us would buy receivers solely for the purpose of registering them for later builds.

Personally I would buy(depending on funds) at least 2 recievers for the AR15, AR10, AKs, HKs 91/93, FALs, HK MP5s, UZIs,

If the Amensty period was say 1 year and the ATF was specifically told that they will collect the tax and use the collected tax money to pay staff to process applications, they could find themselves just chugging along processing applications.

Two provisions could be added that would effectively ensure that the registry is open permianently:

First, a provision in the law could say that in the registration period would automatically be extended until the ATF gets the processing time under 30 calender days.

Second, in the event that more than 1 million guns become newly registered full autos, it is self evident that the prohibition didn't work and it is critical to public safety to keep the registry open to reduce a black market customer base for full auto arms.

The reality is other countries do allow civilian ownership of Full Autos.

Hell, we allow the Iraqi's to retain ownership of their full auto AK47s and the reality is many parts of Iraq are becoming functional inspite of universal ownership of FULL AUTO ARMS.

In Iraq, the AK47 is the "commonly owned" arm.

Nicki

:lurk5::lurk5::lurk5:

highpowermatch
01-19-2011, 1:14 PM
It does not matter what is more deadly, that is purely subjective to tactics. If you look at kill per shot stats, scoped rifles are "more deadly" and no one is looking to ban those, yet.

"Shall not be infringed" is pretty clear to me. If a solder can have one, as a law abiding citizen so should I. Although full auto and other NFA weapons are not illegal, my local sheriff wont sign off on a NFA stamp for me. So I feel that my 2A rights are being infringed :mad:

zfields
01-19-2011, 1:15 PM
im 100% ok with full autos not being legal.

There, I said it. Flame on.

sandman21
01-19-2011, 1:20 PM
We'll get them eventually

But it's not going to happen through waiting, it's going to happen by scratching and clawing an biting every second of every day untill we win this thing.... And then we are only going to keep them by constant vigilance.

QFT

How many thought we would get CCW in CA, get rid of the 94 AWB, constitutional carry in 5 states, national reciprocity, hi-cap mags in CA. People need to start looking at what has happened and what will continue to happen maybe even a constitutional amendment.

sandman21
01-19-2011, 1:21 PM
im 100% ok with full autos not being legal.

There, I said it. Flame on.

They are legal, so now what!?!?!?? ;)

HotRails
01-19-2011, 1:41 PM
The burgeoning crack/ cocaine trade at the time was what added impetus to this legislation. If you will recall there were sometimes 3-4 murders a day in Miami. A few (but by no means the majority) of these were commited with FA weapons.

Right now, it seems that standard capacity magazines are under attack due to the Laughner incident.

Would I want FA weapons? Sure! Should they be legal with appropriate background check? Yeah. Will that happen anytime soon? Probably not.

HotRails
01-19-2011, 1:42 PM
im 100% ok with full autos not being legal.

There, I said it. Flame on.

It's hard to flame if no reasons are provided. What are your reasons?

resident-shooter
01-19-2011, 2:18 PM
QFT

How many thought we would get CCW in CA, get rid of the 94 AWB, constitutional carry in 5 states, national reciprocity, hi-cap mags in CA. People need to start looking at what has happened and what will continue to happen maybe even a constitutional amendment.

Agreed. 15 years ago things looked FAAAAR dimmer than they do now. We have to thank the Lord for the 2nd amendment. It is something that we can grab onto and bite off all the haters with lawsuits and other things. Folks and GB and Aus. did not have such protection. Now with all the winning in courts things are actually starting to look brighter :D

Write Winger
01-19-2011, 2:42 PM
Nicki, you saved me a lot of typing, lol. Could't have said it better.

This will be won in the courts. If our Constitutional government is comprised of we the people, including our army, under equal protection we have the same rights as soldiers to use whatever equipment necessary to defend life, property, and country.

On the flip side, if we are to lose our rights to certain firearms, as well as "high cap" mags, so should our soldiers (under equal protection).

See how long that lasts...

Zerker
01-19-2011, 2:43 PM
Not a chance. If anything Gun restrictions are going to get worse. That is until some major **** hits the fan

resident-shooter
01-19-2011, 3:22 PM
Not a chance. If anything Gun restrictions are going to get worse. That is until some major **** hits the fan

for bradys, mcdonald was a big shtf

highpowermatch
01-19-2011, 3:31 PM
for bradys, mcdonald was a big shtf

Puts a huge smile on my face! :D

mosinnagantm9130
01-19-2011, 3:40 PM
Within the next 20 years. Probably later rather than sooner.

resident-shooter
01-19-2011, 3:59 PM
Puts a huge smile on my face! :D

butt eetz trew :D

MP301
01-22-2011, 11:05 PM
Not a chance. If anything Gun restrictions are going to get worse. That is until some major **** hits the fan

Posts like this are interesting because they remind me of the battered woman syndrome (no offense). You get beat down long enough, you get cynical and maintain a negative attitude no matter what happens.

Ask yourself at what point you thought that things would reverse course and we would actually see some positive things in regards to or RKBA? You probably never saw it coming, did you? But we have seen positive things in the last couple of years, have we not?

I confess that I never thought I would see the progress I have seen in the last the last couple of years either. This, in spite of places like Florida that went shall issue in the mid 80's and other states that have followed since then, was not enough to give me hope.

But at some point, you have to start thinking that maybe one day pigs might just fly. Heller, Macdonald and so on. I really think that optimism is in order for just about anything gun related these days.

If we were not seeing a true pro gun trend here and in the rest of the country (yeah, CA is fighting the trend tooth and nail but no surprise), we would have seen knee jerk reaction legislation to things like the 4 Oakland officers that were killed and things would be worse for us. Any plans to enact bad legislation got about zero traction. I was surprised.

I suspect you will see about the same amount of traction with this latest Az incident as well. Heck, that Pima County Sheriff who stepped on his dick and started talking crap is already a target of a recall apparently.

So, long answer... Ive already seen more progress then I would have ever thought possible...so yeah, MG's are a possibility in the future...dont know how long it will take though...

resident-shooter
01-22-2011, 11:23 PM
Well it sure is good to see at least some people who are being optimistic :)

Lead-Thrower
01-22-2011, 11:25 PM
Good luck with that point.:rolleyes: Pete

I have found that this point is the best at shutting antis up. When talking about this with my anti friends, usually the question "What do you need that for?" comes up. I simply reply: "I dont need it. I just want it." Usually takes them a few minutes to come up with a response. :43:

creekside
01-23-2011, 2:40 AM
What is going to happen when we get plasma rifles in the 40 (mega)watt range?

I predict that full autos will be considered esoteric collector's items and hobbyist toys, much as we regard most black powder firearms today.

tonelar
01-23-2011, 2:47 AM
i bet they're being sold today;
or are you not counting military and police agencies?

GOEX FFF
01-23-2011, 2:53 AM
I can say this.. I bet most pvt Folks who own transferable Mg's don't want masses of any new transferable ones available.. It would cut the high dollar investment in half.

Charlie50
01-23-2011, 6:35 AM
Not a chance. If anything Gun restrictions are going to get worse. That is until some major **** hits the fan

You beat me to it. Some major thing would have to happen that would radically change the political landscape. All kind of scenes possible, all crappy. You Walter Mitty :TFH:"SHTF" guys think it might be great, reality - not too nice, loved ones dead and your firearms prowess will not do sh.t.

pgg
01-23-2011, 9:06 AM
I can say this.. I bet most pvt Folks who own transferable Mg's don't want masses of any new transferable ones available.. It would cut the high dollar investment in half.

Yeah, this is an interesting angle, and it'd cut the investment by a hell of a lot more than half.

Seeing your $14,000 registered receiver suddenly worth $60 because it's now just a 30 year old piece of aluminum, easily cloned ... that's likely to sting. Would it sting enough for those owners to actively argue against reopening the registry?

The kind of person who'd pay $14,000 for a RR may well jump at the chance to buy 3 more at $80 each (+ATF tax).

BluNorthern
01-23-2011, 9:51 AM
Nope, I don't think new full autos will ever be sold. Wish otherwise but that's how I see it. Big brother will never give that to us.

resident-shooter
01-23-2011, 2:00 PM
but didnt someone say that if the big bruh tries to take the guns away then there would be a revolt? rofls