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tygerpaw
08-16-2006, 7:04 AM
I know someone who inherited a large gun collection and in it was a Norinco SKS Sporter that takes AK47 mags and thumbhole stock. Can he turn it in to the cops without getting in trouble? I know they confiscated them a few years back with a grace period and buyback program, but that has long ended. He doesnt know what to do with it. I think he should lock it up in a case and take it to Reno and get rid of it. What do others think?

The Soup Nazi
08-16-2006, 7:23 AM
Edit: Apparently bad advice, but I'm leaving it on so people will get it rather than wonder what I was thinking of while apparently eating paint chips.

if I were him, I wouldn't look to sell at the gunshow I'd arrange for an out of state deal so that theres less of a risk of the deal falling through the roof and having to bring that back into the state and getting nailed by the Calstapo.

blkA4alb
08-16-2006, 9:32 AM
if I were him, I wouldn't look to sell at the gunshow I'd arrange for an out of state deal so that theres less of a risk of the deal falling through the roof and having to bring that back into the state and getting nailed by the Calstapo.
:mad: That is very poor advice soup. He should not be trying to sell this legally from California out of state. Unless he wants to get popped with a felony. Your still advocating transporting the AW through california out of state. Better hope he doesn't get stopped.

What he needs to do is just destroy the gun (strip the parts from it and destroy the receiver.) He could then sell the parts and still get some money back. To destroy the receiver either hammer it flat or cut it in half so it is no longer usable.

The Soup Nazi
08-16-2006, 9:58 AM
Yeah, but this is the gun thats made completely out of ceramic that can go through metal detectors and camoflouge with the surface its on right? Right?!? I don't know, it just seems evil to have to destroy any gun.

blkA4alb
08-16-2006, 10:12 AM
I don't know, it just seems evil to have to destroy any gun.
At the cost of multiple felonies for possession, transportation etc? :rolleyes: "Evil" or not I know what I would do.

JPglee1
08-16-2006, 10:16 AM
What he needs to do is just destroy the gun (strip the parts from it and destroy the receiver.) He could then sell the parts and still get some money back. To destroy the receiver either hammer it flat or cut it in half so it is no longer usable.

If it were me, I'd strip the gun to parts and take the receiver down to the local police department (CALL FIRST!!!)

Put the parts on Ebay or Gunbroker.


J

EBWhite
08-16-2006, 10:24 AM
Hide it in a deep dark hole. or turn it in??

fun2none
08-16-2006, 10:39 AM
I realize that once a category 1 AW always a category 1 AW, and I am NOT suggesting an unlawful act, but if an SKS Sporter receiver is identical to a fixed mag SKS, how would anyone determine if a standard fixed mag SKS used to be an SKS Sporter with a detachable magazine.

Banzai
08-16-2006, 1:13 PM
When my father passed in 2004 I got his collection. I had 90 days from the time he passed away to transfer the Daewoo Dr200 and Norinco Mach 90 sporter into my name. It was something to do with direct lineage inheritance, since he had Reg'd them with the state before they made it on the ole list, so he could still keep them.

P.S. What else is in that collection that he may want to sell?

Mudvayne540ld
08-16-2006, 1:27 PM
If it was me.... well im a cheater because my dad is an leo.

MrTuffPaws
08-16-2006, 2:52 PM
The legal thing to do is destroy it. The moral thing to do is smuggle it would of state and store it.

arguy15
08-16-2006, 3:25 PM
Why not fix the magazine? I am sure there is a way to sercure it in place that would require a screw. On a side note what is the definition of an sks? Does it have say its and SKS on the side? Or if it looks like and SKS it is an SKS? When is an SKS not longer and SKS? Seems in this regard to be the same thing as the now defunked AR ban.

Mudvayne540ld
08-16-2006, 3:34 PM
the SKS's that can accept AK mags are illegal by name IIRC

blkA4alb
08-16-2006, 3:36 PM
Yes the SKS with detachable magazine has been banned since RR89.

blkA4alb
08-16-2006, 3:43 PM
IMO Since May 9th, an SKS with one feature is an AW, regardless of how the magazine is attached.

http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/AWpolicyrev4.pdf
Because of the latest memo? Nothing has changed legally. My sks with a thumbhole stock is just as legal as it was a year ago. That letter means as much as your opinion does since its just that, yet another opinion.

DRH
08-16-2006, 4:19 PM
IMO Since May 9th, an SKS with one feature is an AW, regardless of how the magazine is attached.

http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/AWpolicyrev4.pdf

The May 9th memo just said are "going to adopt regulations", if they are going to do something then it has not already happened, so how does the May date come into play as a cut off date? If May 9th really was the cut off date for weapons transitioning into AWs, how did we miss the 90 day registration window? :rolleyes: If they want to say these weapons are AWs already and these regulations have been in effect since 1/1/2000, they have better start arresting companies and people who have been selling AWs though out the state for six + years. Then we can finally have this whole steaming pile thrown out in court once and for all. This whole game they are playing is getting old.:rolleyes:

Mudvayne540ld
08-16-2006, 6:54 PM
Yea..... since 2000, before Harrot that is.
These are legal now, and have been legal since Harrot.
Otherwise dont you think the DOJ would be shutting down shops all over the state? Thats like selling Full Autos w/o a permit in a free state.... ATF would be all over that.

ohsmily
08-16-2006, 7:05 PM
Yea..... since 2000, before Harrot that is.
These are legal now, and have been legal since Harrot.
Otherwise dont you think the DOJ would be shutting down shops all over the state? Thats like selling Full Autos w/o a permit in a free state.... ATF would be all over that.

Are you confused, or am I missing something...

The SKS Sporter (detachable mag, AK mags) is listed by NAME and is an assault weapon regardless of what features are on it. Harrott has nothing to do with it.

Mudvayne540ld
08-16-2006, 7:07 PM
oh... I thought he was regarding to the May 9th memo for all off-list guns.
Yea, I was confused. :(

dmckean44
08-16-2006, 7:14 PM
Can't he just disassemble it and install a fixed magazine?

ohsmily
08-16-2006, 7:16 PM
Can't he just disassemble it and install a fixed magazine?

No. It is an SKS sporter designed to take AK magazines. Fixed mag or not, it is listed by !!NAME!! in the AW regs....

Ok, to make it more clear for you....if you have a Colt ar-15 lower receiver, it doesn't matter whether you fix the magazine or not...it is banned by name....do you understand?

dmckean44
08-16-2006, 7:39 PM
Oh, I see. So it's marked in some way that differentiates it from other Norinco SKSs.

DRH
08-16-2006, 8:01 PM
No. It is an SKS sporter designed to take AK magazines. Fixed mag or not, it is listed by !!NAME!! in the AW regs....

Ok, to make it more clear for you....if you have a Colt ar-15 lower receiver, it doesn't matter whether you fix the magazine or not...it is banned by name....do you understand?

But wait, the DOJ approved a listed Bushmaster rifle with a fixed mag. It must all come down the the permanence of the fixing, which can never be fully defined.:rolleyes:

ohsmily
08-16-2006, 8:14 PM
But wait, the DOJ approved a listed Bushmaster rifle with a fixed mag. It must all come down the the permanence of the fixing, which can never be fully defined.:rolleyes:

It wasn't just a "fixed mag". They only approved it because the rifle was modified to the point that it was no longer considered the same firearm by the DOJ (welding the magazine well closed; they got a colt model approved as well). The model that was approved was the equivalent of a Fab-10....your analogy doesn't hold up...sorry.

M. Sage
08-16-2006, 8:21 PM
Yes, it's illegal, yes I'll go to Liberal Hell for saying it, but...

+1 for getting it the hell out of state.

TKo_Productions
08-16-2006, 9:23 PM
If it's a Norinco 56 (should specify on the receiver) he needs to destroy it, or turn it into his local police department (have him call ahead and set up an appointment so that the PD knows he is going to be bringing it down - and of course make sure it's unloaded). BWiese would recommend that he also use an attorney to facilitate the transfer, but that's up to your friend.

If the receiver is not marked Norinco 56, he can remove the detachable magazine and the conversion kit and reinstall a fixed 10 round duckbill magazine. At that point he would legally be able to keep the rifle.

hoffmang
08-16-2006, 10:50 PM
If you live in the alternate DOJ reality and you accept their new Rule then an SKS is an assault weapon on two different paths.

1. It is now a named/listed weapon as SKS's with Detachable Magazines are on the list.

2. If it has any one feature (is that a flash hider or a muzzle break?) its an SB23 AW also... Or first... or...

An SKS with a non readily detachable magazine is in reality not (yet) and AW.

-Gene

Pryde
08-17-2006, 6:06 AM
Question, semi-related.

According to the AW list and on the basis of our whole OLL thing, a weapon can only be banned if it is specifically "named". On the list it says "SKS with detachable magazine". On the Yugo M59's, nowhere on the receiver or the gun itself is marked "SKS". So by this logic this SKS is not really an SKS it is a "M59".

The question is, given the above, wouldn't it technically be legal to modify said M59 to accept AK mags or even use the detachable duckbill mags? It would not be the listed "SKS with detachable magazine" rather it would be a M59 with a detachable magazine. (Remember, nowhere on the gun is it labeled "SKS")

On the same token if this man's SKS is not labeled as such on the receiver wouldn't it still technically be legal? (Also remember, an SKS with a detachable magazine in itself is still SB23 compliant)

If this were not the case, the DOJ could just list "AK47/Ar15 with detachable magazine" and permanently stop the inflow of receivers into the state. The fact that they have not done this leads me to believe that they cannot so readily generalize the law.

Thoughts?
Opinions?

arguy15
08-17-2006, 7:10 AM
Pryde, right on.

DRH
08-17-2006, 7:49 AM
It wasn't just a "fixed mag". They only approved it because the rifle was modified to the point that it was no longer considered the same firearm by the DOJ (welding the magazine well closed; they got a colt model approved as well). The model that was approved was the equivalent of a Fab-10....your analogy doesn't hold up...sorry.
They are insane to render an opinion that a few spot welds are permanent and that it is no longer the same firearm. The mag well was not welded closed, but a fixed magazine welded into place. These weapons could be converted back in 5 minutes with "tools". These arbitrary rulings and interpretations of section 12276 are crazy.

blkA4alb
08-17-2006, 8:04 AM
Question, semi-related.

Snipped

Thoughts?
Opinions?
I have thought the same thing too, however the conclusion that I keep coming back to is that these are not the same weapons.

The SKS was banned on the RR89 list, while not named as a specific model (like M59 like you were saying) they did not have to list by make and model then. Thats why the AR/AK series denotation flew.

What makes the current AR/AK situation different is the Harrot decision which states that just declaring the AR/AK "Series" illegal, is too vague for the public and police to determine what an AR/AK series weapon is.

So since Harrot only offers protection for the AR/AK firearms, the SKS does not have that same status and does not have to be specifically listed by make and model. What they did was basically list the SKS with detachable magazine like a "series."

hoffmang
08-17-2006, 12:21 PM
You've hit upon a point Bill was also thinking about. The DOJ has created a series based on the SKS without the regulatory or statutory authority to do so. A Yugo SKS style weapon with a detachable magazine and no features may not be a named and listed weapon. This is a dangerous grey area, but note that its also a problem for DOJ.

-Gene

bwiese
08-17-2006, 1:00 PM
Pryde,

Good thinkin', baby. I brought this up (as a relevant side issue of some importance if SKS rifles were to be somehow excluded in new regulatory definitions) yesterday.

Many "SKS" rifles are not SKS rifles - they are Yugo 59s, Albanian something-or-others, etc.

I'm gonna be posting in the main thread on this in about 20 mins some more analysis/detail...

Pryde
08-17-2006, 1:44 PM
I have thought the same thing too, however the conclusion that I keep coming back to is that these are not the same weapons.

The SKS was banned on the RR89 list, while not named as a specific model (like M59 like you were saying) they did not have to list by make and model then. Thats why the AR/AK series denotation flew.

What makes the current AR/AK situation different is the Harrot decision which states that just declaring the AR/AK "Series" illegal, is too vague for the public and police to determine what an AR/AK series weapon is.

So since Harrot only offers protection for the AR/AK firearms, the SKS does not have that same status and does not have to be specifically listed by make and model. What they did was basically list the SKS with detachable magazine like a "series."

I'm gonna have to disagree with you because offlist FNFAL and HK91 recievers are still importable into the state as unlisted series weapons.



Pryde,

Good thinkin', baby. I brought this up (as a relevant side issue of some importance if SKS rifles were to be somehow excluded in new regulatory definitions) yesterday.

Many "SKS" rifles are not SKS rifles - they are Yugo 59s, Albanian something-or-others, etc.

I'm gonna be posting in the main thread on this in about 20 mins some more analysis/detail...

Thanks bill,
I've actually had this question burning to be asked for months but I never got around to asking it. A legal analysis of this by you would be really helpful.

blkA4alb
08-17-2006, 1:49 PM
I'm gonna have to disagree with you because offlist FNFAL and HK91 recievers are still importable into the state as unlisted series weapons.

True, I stand corrected.

M. Sage
08-17-2006, 6:23 PM
They are insane to render an opinion that a few spot welds are permanent and that it is no longer the same firearm. The mag well was not welded closed, but a fixed magazine welded into place. These weapons could be converted back in 5 minutes with "tools". These arbitrary rulings and interpretations of section 12276 are crazy.

Die grinder, vise, hammer, chisel... unless you've got money/access to the good stuff. Then it's die grinder, vertical mill.

Everybody knows they're clueless.