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ap3572001
01-16-2011, 9:24 PM
A friend up north got His CCW! Very happy.
We were talking about different gun related stuff this afternoon.

He brought up something , I had no answer for.

My understanding is that if a person has pistol concealed w/o a CCW its a misdemeanor if a gun is in their name and its a felony if it is not.

He asked me , if its a crime for a person WITH a CCW to carry a pistol that does not go back to them.

I never heard a question like that.....

What do You think?

Connor P Price
01-16-2011, 9:27 PM
I don't believe its a crime in a specific sense, but I certainly imagine many sheriffs would refuse to but a gun on your CCW that isn't registered to you.

ETA: I'm not 100% certain, so don't take my word as law here. I'll do some digging, but somebody who knows for sure will probably be here to explain before i find citations.

dantodd
01-16-2011, 9:29 PM
you can carry any weapon that is on your permit. I think some sheriffs want the weapon to be registered before they will list it for you but that is not something that is covered by law.

Tripper
01-16-2011, 9:31 PM
on my ccw app, i had to list any gun for CCW, and it had to be registered to me in order to qualify to be on the app, I had to show proof of ownership and registration.
Else I'm sure that would be cause for them to deny that particular firearm.
I'd suggest, register and qualify with anything you think you 'might' carry at all, just to cover yourself. doesnt cost anything to add to the app, just maybe qualifying with it might cost additional, but you may be able to get a package deal with the place you are going to qualify at.

Tripper

Tripper

EBR Works
01-16-2011, 9:31 PM
I have a pistol that had belonged to my parents. I was told that I had to have it in my name before adding it to my CCW.

dantodd
01-16-2011, 9:32 PM
on my ccw app, i had to list any gun for CCW, and it had to be registered to me in order to qualify to be on the app, I had to show proof of ownership and registration.

Damn. I have no proof of ownership or registration for any of my possessions other than my car. Why would anyone want to bother keeping papers like that?

a1c
01-16-2011, 10:24 PM
Damn. I have no proof of ownership or registration for any of my possessions other than my car. Why would anyone want to bother keeping papers like that?

For exactly this type of reason.

Start keeping track of your property. I keep all receipts for all valuable possessions for insurance or audit reasons. You never know.

wildhawker
01-16-2011, 10:26 PM
For exactly this type of reason.

Start keeping track of your property. I keep all receipts for all valuable possessions for insurance or audit reasons. You never know.

His point was that they can't require it, and [especially] if it's not retained, it leaves the Sheriff with having to accept the application and firearm.

a1c
01-16-2011, 10:45 PM
His point was that they can't require it, and [especially] if it's not retained, it leaves the Sheriff with having to accept the application and firearm.

You know it doesn't exactly work that way. At this moment, a lot of sheriffs do whatever they want.

wildhawker
01-16-2011, 10:57 PM
You know it doesn't exactly work that way. At this moment, a lot of sheriffs do whatever they want.

The pitter-patter you hear is the sound of justice approaching...

Librarian
01-16-2011, 11:10 PM
you can carry any weapon that is on your permit. I think some sheriffs want the weapon to be registered before they will list it for you but that is not something that is covered by law.

And it shouldn't be something the Sheriffs can require, because the state does not require that handguns be registered as a condition of ownership. See the wiki: http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Firearms_registration

Mark in Eureka
01-16-2011, 11:13 PM
Some security companies require their officers to carry company owned weapons only. Some police departments demand that their officers carry only department issued weapons only. These are liability and training requriments of individual departments, and companies.

There is not a state requirement that you own the weapon that is being listed on your CCW.

harbinger007
01-16-2011, 11:23 PM
Sacramento County didn't ask if I owned the handguns on my CCW application. Although I could find the receipts for 2 of the 3, the other was bought about 20 years ago and I doubt I have the receipt for it. Is ownership verification something they do during background checks, etc.? I'm totally ignorant as to what sort of gun ownership information is kept.

Matt3989
01-16-2011, 11:28 PM
No body asked if my guns were in my name. In fact, I dropped off my CCW application before the DOJ even took out the money for the infra familial transfer.

An older guy in my CCW class said he buys guns private party without an FFL and has them on his ccw (ya rly, I thought he was crazy too). I am assuming he meant guns that were un-registered in the first place.

VAReact
01-17-2011, 6:59 AM
In Inyo County, you must have the firearm registered to you personally and show proof of ownership, or the Sheriff will not let you CCW it (illegal, I know). I guess CCWing my wife's Glock would be out of the question...for now :43:

dantodd
01-17-2011, 7:55 AM
For exactly this type of reason.

Start keeping track of your property. I keep all receipts for all valuable possessions for insurance or audit reasons. You never know.

Never going to happen. I keep a spreadsheet with important serial numbers etc. but I am not going to save papers to prove I own small pieces of personal property.

Hopalong
01-17-2011, 8:20 AM
You know it doesn't exactly work that way. At this moment, a lot of sheriffs do whatever they want.

I would agree with this.

Why take the chance with the CCW privilege?

From what I was told, sheriffs don't want to be bothered or notified about any of their CCW holders.

Cross all the T's and dot all the I's.

Kid Stanislaus
01-17-2011, 8:35 AM
Damn. I have no proof of ownership or registration for any of my possessions other than my car. Why would anyone want to bother keeping papers like that?

I've kept all my gun reciepts religiously for decades JUST IN CASE!;)

QuarterBoreGunner
01-17-2011, 8:59 AM
And remember, once upon a time, previous to 1991, handgun sales could be done WITHOUT the use of an FFL. If you wanted to sell a gun to your neighbor, it was a private transaction. No paperwork required. No paper trail.

I imagine there are more than a couple of these handguns out there on lawful CCWs.

a469ret
01-22-2011, 12:29 AM
I know from personal experience that agencies allow registered weapons that belong to family members, such as Dad's handgun(s), or a husband and wife with the same weapons listed on their CCW permits. The agency just wants to make sure the weapons are properly registered and not stolen.

Having a CCW permit is a privilege and if you want to have a CCW permit you have to follow the established procedures of the particular deaprtment that you are applying with.

wildhawker
01-22-2011, 12:51 AM
I know from personal experience that agencies allow registered weapons that belong to family members, such as Dad's handgun(s), or a husband and wife with the same weapons listed on their CCW permits. The agency just wants to make sure the weapons are properly registered and not stolen.

Having a CCW permit is a privilege and if you want to have a CCW permit you have to follow the established procedures of the particular deaprtment that you are applying with.

Unless you want them to follow the law, and then you have a spine and make them.

Lrchops
01-22-2011, 5:53 AM
The firearms listed on your permit are the ones you must carry. They generally cannot be modified from OEM spec. Otherwise you may be in violation of the permit conditions.

Jack L
01-22-2011, 8:23 AM
You know it doesn't exactly work that way. At this moment, a lot of sheriffs do whatever they want.

You can register it with the DOJ for $19. That way you are good to go.

Ten Rounder
01-22-2011, 8:35 AM
My understanding, your weapon serial #'s are submited to DOJ, you have defacto registration on any pre 1991 or pre-'68 purchase and becomes part of their database

Gray Peterson
01-22-2011, 8:41 AM
The agency just wants to make sure the weapons are properly registered and not stolen.

Having a CCW permit is a privilege and if you want to have a CCW permit you have to follow the established procedures of the particular deaprtment that you are applying with.

No. Stop cooperating with law breakers.

12051(a)(3)(C) An applicant shall not be required to complete any additional application or form for a license, or to provide any information other than that necessary to complete the standard application form described in subparagraph (A), except to clarify or interpret information provided by the applicant on the standard application form.

12054(d) Except as authorized pursuant to subdivisions (a), (b), and (c), no requirement, charge, assessment, fee, or condition that requires the payment of any additional funds by the applicant may be imposed by any licensing authority as a condition of the application for a license

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/volreg.pdf (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/volreg.pdf)

19 dollars required to be payed for someone who was a transferred a gun before 1991, or imported a gun into the state before 1998....not only not cool, but unlawful per the above statute.

53071. It is the intention of the Legislature to occupy the whole field of regulation of the registration or licensing of commercially manufactured firearms as encompassed by the provisions of the Penal Code, and such provisions shall be exclusive of all local regulations, relating to registration or licensing of commercially manufactured firearms, by any political subdivision as defined in Section 1721 of the Labor Code.

By cooperating with law breaking by sheriff's, you make it more difficult for folks to actually challenge these requirements, and allow them to dig in their heels when confronted by CRPA LAP or CGF.

ccwtrainer
01-22-2011, 9:03 AM
A friend up north got His CCW! Very happy.
We were talking about different gun related stuff this afternoon.

He brought up something , I had no answer for.

My understanding is that if a person has pistol concealed w/o a CCW its a misdemeanor if a gun is in their name and its a felony if it is not.

He asked me , if its a crime for a person WITH a CCW to carry a pistol that does not go back to them.

I never heard a question like that.....

What do You think?


To directly respond to your first statement, it is in fact a misdemeanor to carry a firearm concealed, without a CCW or a firearm that is not listed on the CCW, as defined in PC 12025(a):
12025(a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when
he or she does any of the following:
(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her
control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.
(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he
or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.

Subsection (b)(6) makes it a wobbler (felony or misdemeanor, it's up to the judge) if he has any ammo for the gun on him or near him and if he's not the registered owner of the pistol:
(6) By imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a
county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one
thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment if
both of the following conditions are met:
(A) Both the pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
concealed upon the person and the unexpended ammunition capable of
being discharged from that firearm are either in the immediate
possession of the person or readily accessible to that person, or the
pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon
the person is loaded as defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12031.
(B) The person is not listed with the Department of Justice
pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) of Section 11106, as the
registered owner of that pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.
Here's a link to PC 12025: http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12025.html
Here's a link to PC 11106 (which defines the registration process): http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/11106.html

As for your second inquiry, any gun that is on someone's CCW is on record as their gun, even if it was purchased pre-1991 and consequently, was never originally registered. It became on record as their gun once they put the gun on their permit. Getting into that, some issuing agencies require all firearms listed on the CCW application to have been previously registered to the applicant, whereas others don't. So, yes, it would certainly be a crime for a person to carry concealed, a firearm that does not go back to them because, if it does not go back to them, it would have to be a firearm that is not on their permit.

Librarian
01-22-2011, 1:25 PM
Subsection (b)(6) makes it a wobbler (felony or misdemeanor, it's up to the judge) if he has any ammo for the gun on him or near him or if he's not the registered owner of the pistol:
(6) By imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a
county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one
thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment if
both of the following conditions are met:
(A) Both the pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
concealed upon the person and the unexpended ammunition capable of
being discharged from that firearm are either in the immediate
possession of the person or readily accessible to that person, or the
pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon
the person is loaded as defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12031.
(B) The person is not listed with the Department of Justice
pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) of Section 11106, as the
registered owner of that pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.
[INDENT]
Small typo - the 'or' above should be 'and'.

ccwtrainer
02-01-2011, 8:29 PM
Corrected.

Thanks Librarian, I missed that.

pitchbaby
02-02-2011, 12:09 AM
No body asked if my guns were in my name. In fact, I dropped off my CCW application before the DOJ even took out the money for the infra familial transfer.

An older guy in my CCW class said he buys guns private party without an FFL and has them on his ccw (ya rly, I thought he was crazy too). I am assuming he meant guns that were un-registered in the first place.

First things first.... that guy is crazy..... Secondly..... since you live in Butte County... I expect a hint of justice to exist... so OF COURSE they don't ask for registration.

Butte County Sheriff is AWESOME in that regard.