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Helpful_Cub
01-16-2011, 8:10 PM
I've seen tons of Labradors in the field but I rarely see a GSP. I figure with all of the available Upland hunting available in SoCal that a pointer would be really handy, plus they are good retrievers and swimmers. One review I read basically claims that they can do anything you could ever want a good hunting dog to do.

So with all of that versatility, why isn't this bred the most popular gundogs? It seems to me, that having a dog that can do it all would be handy.

Clee
01-16-2011, 8:36 PM
It may not be the most popular dog but its certainly close. Whenever I go hunting and run into a hunter with his dog its either a Lab or GSP. In the Socal NAVHDA club I believe its the most represented breed. Since they are a versatile breed they do it all-point, swim, retrieve, and track wounded game.

I am a Drahthaar (GWP) owner myself and have hunted over numerous dogs, I can say a GSP/Kurzhaar are great dogs.

180ls1
01-16-2011, 8:38 PM
Ya they can do it all, i know a guy who uses his to track wounded pigs also. They are not much of a family dog though, which is why i got a Vizsla.

ScottB
01-16-2011, 8:52 PM
Wonderful dogs. I have two kurzhaars (German GSPs). They do it all, upland waterfowl, fur, tracking. Mine will break ice without hesitation. I think they are great family dogs. Great with kids and other dogs, gentle, loyal. They do need their exercise though and you have to do your bit to train them - not hard. Unlike labs, most DK/GSPs. DD/GWPs etc are trained by their owners rather than pros.

popndrop
01-16-2011, 8:53 PM
Love the GSP. Great dogs. I see them often in the field. It is Usually the Labs walking a few feet behind their owners, Viszlas being chased by their owners, and the GSP's and my English Setter working the birds :)

antonio
01-16-2011, 9:05 PM
GSP Are awesome dogs My uncle has had many hunting dogs and says he will never get any other breed other then a GSP

Kerplow
01-16-2011, 10:34 PM
best dog i ever met was a GSP. he was trained for pheasant and apparently pretty good. took him about 20 minutes into his first dove hunt to figure out all he had to do was sit next to dad and wait for the birds to fall. Unfortunately he had hip displasia and was retired before i met him. he LOVED to hunt. you couldn't say B I R D around him or he would go nuts like most dogs when you say go for a walk. One time a friend of his owner brought him a live quail for a treat of sorts. we would hide the quail somewhere in the front or back yard and he would find it withing seconds. he would pick the damn thing up live and bring it to us when he realized no one was gonna shoot it. very soft jaws.

if i ever get a dog i wants me a GSP. :)

Helpful_Cub
01-17-2011, 6:31 AM
These are all really great reviews! Would anyone recommend a good breeder GWP or GSP? I don't mind having to drive into a neighboring state to pick a puppy up. Thanks.

brassballs
01-17-2011, 6:41 AM
I have a german short hair and he is the best dogi've ever owned. Tip the wonder dog.

Best nose on any dog too, can find and point birds that labs just walk by. Great around people and other dogs too. Just a little hyper, got to run him out a little then he gets ready and its on!

The only bad thing about him is on the 4th he gose nuts with all the fire works so I bring him inside and watch a movie with him laying by the couch with my hand on him. As long as he knows i'm right there he mellows out.

But all and all best Ihave ever seen as dogs go.

robairto
01-17-2011, 8:40 AM
GSP's are very common in NorCal for upland hunting but the typical scenario for animals is this:
95% pet
5% hunt/protect
Hunting bred dogs require attenion/exercise and a place to do it regularly. GSP's are upland dogs used for upland birds. There are far better choices for waterfowling and not many better pointers or flushers that work an open field better than a GSP.

My GSP is gone and I replaced him with a LLewellyn. They are different animals for sure both having positives and negatives.
I bought my GSP from Olive hill Kennels in Knights landing when Gary was still running it. Also Archie Obriens in Rocklin has good dogs. The wire hairs are known to be slightly more aggressive than the GSPs and I've found this to be true. These dogs need space to run and live so keep that in mind too. Good luck.

Clee
01-17-2011, 9:14 AM
These are all really great reviews! Would anyone recommend a good breeder GWP or GSP? I don't mind having to drive into a neighboring state to pick a puppy up. Thanks.

My Drahthaar (GWP) came from

http://arizonadd.com/

Kit is a good guy he only sells to hunters as should any responsible gundog breeder. Although essentially they are the same breed (gsp=kurhaar, drahthaar=gwp), I would recommend sticking with (true) Kurhaar or drahthaars. I say that only because if you do, you know for sure that you are getting a dog breed for hunting. That is not to say GSP and GWP breeders don't produce good dogs because they do. If the dogs are truely Kurzhaar/ drats then they are members of the German system not AKC. Without getting into too much detail, They are much more strict in their breedings so to try to maintain strong well bred hunting dogs. GSP are increasing becoming popular among nonhunters, so you may actually be buying from a showdog breeder if you don't know what you're doing, make sure you don't. If you buy dogs from the german system, none of them breed for show only hunting.

Some breeders may call their dogs kurzhaars or drahthaars but if they are not members of german system and have gone through the breeding process and testing, then technically they are not and are just GSP or GWP. So how do you know if they are truely a part of the German system? They are members of these organizations: the VDD or VKD
http://www.vdd-gna.org/breeders_gna.php
http://www.nadkc.org/

I not saying the german system dogs are better, all I'm saying if you stick to those breeders, you'll know for sure you'll be getting a hunting dog not a showdogs. You can still get a dud. One thing though, the german system favors heavily towards tracking, which really aint a big problem whereas AKC breeds mostly breed as bird dogs.
you'll find breeders and upcoming litter info in those two sites. If your not an active person or just a passive hunter, I would not recommend these dogs. They need a lot of excerise. Also these breeders are very serious about their dogs, many may require you to have your dog run the german testings (info on it is in those two sites) if your not committed they may not sell you one. Some may even have you run the NAVHDA tests as well.

Good luck in your search if you get one please post it. I'd love to see her/him.

Kerplow
01-17-2011, 10:07 AM
One thing I did not mention is they are definitely high strung in their early years. They need action!

mdhpper
01-17-2011, 10:14 AM
One thing I did not mention is they are definitely high strung in their early years. They need action!

That depends on their genetics. I've seen some that are very high strung and some that are very mellow, fortunately, I have the latter.

edwardm
01-17-2011, 10:23 AM
That depends on their genetics. I've seen some that are very high strung and some that are very mellow, fortunately, I have the latter.

The one we had when I was a kid was high strung from the day his momma dropped him until the day he died.

That damn dog was either at flank speed or dead asleep. And hardly a day goes by that I don't miss him.

CACitUP
01-17-2011, 10:41 AM
I love my GSP. Best damn hunting dog I have ever seen. Great family dog, very loving and protective. Will crawl up in your lap if you let her. On the other side of the coin, she is a royal pain in the arse to keep in the yard ;) She is without a doubt a fence jumper. Most of it is my fault, if she isnt getting enough excercise she will take it upon herself to expend her energy without my company. Keep in mind these dogs are SMART. Real smart. But they are also like adopting a kid with a epic case of ADHD. These dogs are not for everyone and this is why the adoption/rescue rate is so high for them. You really REALLY need to know what you are getting into before you get a GSP. They are a lot of work, commitment and responsibility.

Helpful_Cub
01-17-2011, 2:42 PM
I love my GSP. Best damn hunting dog I have ever seen. Great family dog, very loving and protective. Will crawl up in your lap if you let her. On the other side of the coin, she is a royal pain in the arse to keep in the yard ;) She is without a doubt a fence jumper. Most of it is my fault, if she isnt getting enough excercise she will take it upon herself to expend her energy without my company. Keep in mind these dogs are SMART. Real smart. But they are also like adopting a kid with a epic case of ADHD. These dogs are not for everyone and this is why the adoption/rescue rate is so high for them. You really REALLY need to know what you are getting into before you get a GSP. They are a lot of work, commitment and responsibility.

I think I'm ready for one. I have the yard, the time and the energy for one. I'm at the point were I just need to find the right one. I actually kind of look forward to all of the training.

CACitUP
01-17-2011, 3:15 PM
I would recommend trying to adopt one. You will find some beautiful dogs in the system that just need the right home. Most rescues wont adopt to households with kids but if you dont have any I would recommend going that route. Make someon elses mistake your gain, and you will also make a dog happy for life.

http://www.gsp-rescue.org/home.htm

http://www.norcalgsprescue.com/

http://gspsf.org/

Helpful_Cub
01-17-2011, 3:29 PM
I would recommend trying to adopt one. You will find some beautiful dogs in the system that just need the right home. Most rescues wont adopt to households with kids but if you dont have any I would recommend going that route. Make someon elses mistake your gain, and you will also make a dog happy for life.

http://www.gsp-rescue.org/home.htm

http://www.norcalgsprescue.com/

http://gspsf.org/

I already have an application in with California GPS Rescue I just haven't heard anything yet. I'll apply to the other two also and see what happens. My current dog was a rescue so I'm familar with how happy a dog can be to have a permit home.

Clee
01-17-2011, 3:54 PM
It's noble to get a rescue dog but if you want a hunting dog and are serious, I wouldn't suggest it. If you want a family dog then go for it. Rescue dogs, you have no clue what you're getting. Before you even get into hunting training you may have to fix all the messed up stuff the last owner did to the dog.

CACitUP
01-17-2011, 4:23 PM
I wouldnt hesitate to take a rescue dog. Talk to the org about the dogs background, but in the end, if you are worth anything in the training department a rescue dog will do as well as any other dog. My previous dog was a rescue dog and hunted grand, my current dog was started at 6 weeks and came from a nationally recgnized breeder, and as great as my current dog is, I think it has more to do with the time I put in with her not when and where my dog got its start. Find a dog that exhibits the characteristics you want in a dog. Take a wing and see if the dog has a nose and is birdy. As long as it has the basics you can turn it into a fine hunting partner. If all you want to do is field trials and compare pedigrees then by all means find a breeder, there is nothing wrong with that route either.

popndrop
01-17-2011, 7:30 PM
Call a trainer named Sheldon Twer, outside of Modesto. He's the best pointer trainer around. He can point you in the right direction for a solid breeder. Twerkennels.com I think.

ScottB
01-17-2011, 7:45 PM
These are all really great reviews! Would anyone recommend a good breeder GWP or GSP? I don't mind having to drive into a neighboring state to pick a puppy up. Thanks.

How do you plan to use it? i.e. what/where do you hunt?

Helpful_Cub
01-17-2011, 8:04 PM
How do you plan to use it? i.e. what/where do you hunt?

At the moment I'm doing Upland bird hunting in the San Bernardino Mountains. After bird session ends (end of the month) I'm thinking of pigs, coyotes and jack rabbits. If dog training goes well I'd like to start Duck hunting in a couple of years.

ScottB
01-18-2011, 4:05 PM
Well, I personally would not use one on pigs the way the hound guys use dogs. In germany they use them on boar and deer, but differently than here. More tracking, stalking, not chasing and confronting. One german I met who was quite an enthusiastic pig hunter and used several DKs was horrified watching video of hounds and pigs. When they hunt pigs, BTW, a good hunt may involve killing a 8 or 10 pigs in one day. Not sure what use GSPs are against coyotes except most will not hesitate to go after one. You have to do a gut check to see if you are willing to see your dog get tore up. Coyotes usually just want to get away unless there is more than one - and that's the rub.

The trials oriented traditional American-style GSPs are upland dogs. You may get one that's competent in water and tracking, but its a crapshoot. Upland is what they excel at. Some have a strong retrieve, some don't. All that was valued by breeders for decades was run and point.

The more traditional german style are versatiles and are the type of dog NAVHDA is built around. They will excel at waterfowl hunting as well as upland and have a strong retrieving instinct. They also track. They will hunt rabbits as well as any other fur.

You need to train for what you will do, so if you aren't really sure about the duck thing, it will be hard to train for. Tracking is relatively easy to train, but NAVHDA doesn't include it for some reason.

If you hunt mainly quail and chukar and that's the type of country you live in, look at dogs that excel at that purpose. There is a guy named Larry Lowell in Phelan that raises and trains that kind of GSP. People seem to like his dogs and him. You might google his name and look him up.

Helpful_Cub
01-28-2011, 1:09 PM
Thanks for all of the advice and information. I found my GSP in the San Clemente pound. He's a purebreed, and a little over 1 year old. I've had him for 4 days now and I have to say he's really smart and loves to run in my yard. He's picking up some basic commands very quickly and keeps coming back for more. He's funny because he want's to be all cuddly like a puppy but doesn't realize he's a 75 lb full grown dog. He's already pointing at sparrows and I've gotten him to retieve 3 times already. There's lots of hope for this guy and I'm sure glad I rescued him! :)

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs071.snc6/168194_1755497254673_1456220599/168194_1755497254673_1456220599_1859020_3545306_n. jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1376.snc4/164854_1755496694659_1456220599/164854_1755496694659_1456220599_1859016_421405_n.j pg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs071.snc6/168126_1755496774661_1456220599/168126_1755496774661_1456220599_1859017_4168784_n. jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs899.ash1/180710_1755497374676_1456220599/180710_1755497374676_1456220599_1859021_5785932_n. jpg

popndrop
01-28-2011, 1:13 PM
great looking dog. now get him trained and go hunting!

Helpful_Cub
01-28-2011, 1:41 PM
great looking dog. now get him trained and go hunting!

That's the plan. I'm taking him out to the Brittney Field Trials outside of Cal City this weekend. A co-worker is going to introduce to me to the trainers in the area.

CACitUP
01-28-2011, 4:41 PM
SCORE!!! Great looking dog. Looks familiar, probably from German lines given the color, as the black and black/roan arent recognized in the US. Glad you were able to give him a chance at a home and to do what it appears he really wants to do. Hunt!

Bigyates
01-28-2011, 4:56 PM
Great looking dog. There are many great GSP lines being bred, many of them very versatile. I have had 7 GSPs and 3 of them I acquired were older dogs 1 to two years old. I have had really good luck with the older dogs. I find the GSP easy to train. They are very birdie, have a high prey drive and are very biddable. Your gonna have a lota fun and he will be your best hunting buddy. You might want to check out these sites;

www.shorhairs.net


www.wildrosegermanshorthairs.com/versatile.htm

ScottB
01-28-2011, 6:59 PM
Great looking dog. I'm glad you found one that was in need of a good hunting home.

Boarding-Team-Leader
01-28-2011, 7:57 PM
Thanks for rescuing a great looking dog. My GWP has been gone almost two years and I still think about him everyday.

Helpful_Cub
01-28-2011, 8:59 PM
Thanks for rescuing a great looking dog. My GWP has been gone almost two years and I still think about him everyday.

If you still have room for one you may look into rescuing one. It feels odd, but he was not the only one that I found that could use a home. There are several in SoCal that are currently living in foster homes that could use a real home.

jeffrice6
02-04-2011, 11:49 PM
Cant speak for their hunting (rep for that) but have always been good family pets in the off season

Jon Wang
02-05-2011, 6:07 AM
Thanks for all of the advice and information. I found my GSP in the San Clemente pound. He's a purebreed, and a little over 1 year old. I've had him for 4 days now and I have to say he's really smart and loves to run in my yard. He's picking up some basic commands very quickly and keeps coming back for more. He's funny because he want's to be all cuddly like a puppy but doesn't realize he's a 75 lb full grown dog. He's already pointing at sparrows and I've gotten him to retieve 3 times already. There's lots of hope for this guy and I'm sure glad I rescued him! :)

YOU got him. Good for you.

I was just one step behind you. I've been looking too.

I'm glad he's in a hunting home.

Wyseguy
02-05-2011, 9:18 AM
I had an opportunity to buy a GSP a few years ago at a fantastic price. I passed it up, and am still kicking myself!

Argonaut
02-05-2011, 9:33 AM
This is a subject that I have been involved in for nearly 40 years.......I lived and hunted in Germany for many years and imported several German Wire hairs when I returned. Then I was involved with a woman that had probably the best wires in the country, We field trialed them and also did the show bench with the same dogs. One of her dogs won Westminster after being chosen as one of the best field dogs on the Continent. I have also owned and hunted many German shorthairs. The problem with the short hairs is they have been bred by Americans for field trial work so much that they are a big running dog. many are difficult to "live" with as they go from the kennel to the field and do not really live with there owners (of course many exceptions to that rule). In Germany, a Hunter is a very different individual than either here or in there own culture. They dress like a hunter nearly always and there dogs are constantly with them weather in a restaurant or in the field. These dogs are perfect by my opinion. They are quiet, well mannered and very obedient as well as being superb field dogs. In Germany, both breeds are classed as "Versatile Gun Dogs" and if you own a riever (hunting rights to a property) you must have one available to use. They are trained to point, retrieve, blood trail, sight trail, bring larger game to bay, and as a general scent hound. They are also tested (quietly) to be aggressive against cats and things like foxes to protect the game on the riever. There is a series of "tests" they have to pass before being allowed to have registered prodigy, a test for each speciality and all have to be passed before they can produce a puppies that can be registered by the club. One in particular that I always found fascinating was the scent over water test, They would release a clipped wing duck in a pond where the dog could not see it, They would release the dog and he had to find it within a short time. There is also an American Versatile Gun Dog club that is a good group that have similar practices. I prefer the Wire Hair because they are closer to the original German breeding than the American bred Shorthairs in general. They are more apt to be clam smart dogs that bounce off the walls less and work closer than the Shorthairs. I will be in Germany to pick up puppies this September from an old hunter friend of mine. He is a Count that is a full time hunter (like most hunters in Germany) and lives in a castle that his family has owned since it was built in the 1500's. The general population does not have the opportunity to hunt. Hunting is generally an activity reserved for upper class and almost a lifestyle rather than a hobby. (Back to dogs) In the midwest where they have "duck races" the German dogs are better than the labs and Chesapeake working the water, There is nothing that compares to walking up on a dog on point to flush a bird (particularly when there a couple of dogs backing him up) When I lived in Utah, we hunted some waterfowl. My dogs loved to work the water even breaking ice to retrieve birds. They would work in water so cold I couldn't watch them and took them home. These are incredible dogs in all respects. The only problems that I have ever had were with dogs that were indiscriminately bred by Americans not keeping with the original concepts of German husbandry.

Helpful_Cub
02-05-2011, 9:38 AM
I had an opportunity to buy a GSP a few years ago at a fantastic price. I passed it up, and am still kicking myself!

If your planning on buying instead of rescuing I found Ellis Hallmark of Landmark Kennels in Lancaster, CA. has a couple of trained dogs that seems very reasonable in price.

http://landmarkennels.com/startedtrained_dogs_for_sale

I don't know how good of a trainer he is personally, but I was refereed to him during my dog search so he can't be to bad since he has a name in the dog training community.

timmyb21
02-05-2011, 1:22 PM
Thanks for all of the advice and information. I found my GSP in the San Clemente pound. He's a purebreed, and a little over 1 year old. I've had him for 4 days now and I have to say he's really smart and loves to run in my yard. He's picking up some basic commands very quickly and keeps coming back for more. He's funny because he want's to be all cuddly like a puppy but doesn't realize he's a 75 lb full grown dog. He's already pointing at sparrows and I've gotten him to retieve 3 times already. There's lots of hope for this guy and I'm sure glad I rescued him! :)

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs071.snc6/168194_1755497254673_1456220599/168194_1755497254673_1456220599_1859020_3545306_n. jpg




Dude, you freakin' scored with that dog!

Bigyates
02-05-2011, 5:38 PM
This is a subject that I have been involved in for nearly 40 years.......I lived and hunted in Germany for many years and imported several German Wire hairs when I returned. Then I was involved with a woman that had probably the best wires in the country, We field trialed them and also did the show bench with the same dogs. One of her dogs won Westminster after being chosen as one of the best field dogs on the Continent. I have also owned and hunted many German shorthairs. The problem with the short hairs is they have been bred by Americans for field trial work so much that they are a big running dog. many are difficult to "live" with as they go from the kennel to the field and do not really live with there owners (of course many exceptions to that rule). In Germany, a Hunter is a very different individual than either here or in there own culture. They dress like a hunter nearly always and there dogs are constantly with them weather in a restaurant or in the field. These dogs are perfect by my opinion. They are quiet, well mannered and very obedient as well as being superb field dogs. In Germany, both breeds are classed as "Versatile Gun Dogs" and if you own a riever (hunting rights to a property) you must have one available to use. They are trained to point, retrieve, blood trail, sight trail, bring larger game to bay, and as a general scent hound. They are also tested (quietly) to be aggressive against cats and things like foxes to protect the game on the riever. There is a series of "tests" they have to pass before being allowed to have registered prodigy, a test for each speciality and all have to be passed before they can produce a puppies that can be registered by the club. One in particular that I always found fascinating was the scent over water test, They would release a clipped wing duck in a pond where the dog could not see it, They would release the dog and he had to find it within a short time. There is also an American Versatile Gun Dog club that is a good group that have similar practices. I prefer the Wire Hair because they are closer to the original German breeding than the American bred Shorthairs in general. They are more apt to be clam smart dogs that bounce off the walls less and work closer than the Shorthairs. I will be in Germany to pick up puppies this September from an old hunter friend of mine. He is a Count that is a full time hunter (like most hunters in Germany) and lives in a castle that his family has owned since it was built in the 1500's. The general population does not have the opportunity to hunt. Hunting is generally an activity reserved for upper class and almost a lifestyle rather than a hobby. (Back to dogs) In the midwest where they have "duck races" the German dogs are better than the labs and Chesapeake working the water, There is nothing that compares to walking up on a dog on point to flush a bird (particularly when there a couple of dogs backing him up) When I lived in Utah, we hunted some waterfowl. My dogs loved to work the water even breaking ice to retrieve birds. They would work in water so cold I couldn't watch them and took them home. These are incredible dogs in all respects. The only problems that I have ever had were with dogs that were indiscriminately bred by Americans not keeping with the original concepts of German husbandry.

I have had dogs from several lines including some with German imports in the background. I will say the German dogs are sharp. I wouldn't have an ill bred dog but I have a preference for several of the field trial lines. I thought the foundation stock for faster bigger ranging dogs were from Danish dogs brought here in the 70's and 80's.

parcours
02-05-2011, 6:00 PM
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs071.snc6/168194_1755497254673_1456220599/168194_1755497254673_1456220599_1859020_3545306_n. jpg
]

Nice looking GSP! Great find.

You will not be disappointed. GSP's will hunt till they drop... That's where you have to set their limits, it's nothing for my dog to put in 15-18 miles in a day.

I have a 1 year old who was trained by Carl Porter o/o Lucerne (huntingdogtrainer.net). Carl did an outstanding job with Molly. We just finished her first hunting season and I was more than pleased with her performance.

Here's a pic of Molly and my son from the last weekend of the season.

http://i334.photobucket.com/albums/m426/k80parcours/JC_Molly_MNP_2011.jpg

daveinwoodland
02-05-2011, 6:08 PM
My Brother and I used to raise GSP. I had a female pick of the litter that was the most incredible dog you ever wanted to watch work a field. As others have said training and exercise is number one, but worth every minute.

Sonja understood approx 10 hand commands and would do any of them as long as she could see you, as well she healed without a leash, waited for me at the curb until I crossed the street to be sure no cars were coming all without me saying a word.

I've never worked with any dog that was as smart. While they can be a bit on the hyper side they are fine with kids and family and they are mellow if you exercise them daily.

Helpful_Cub
02-05-2011, 6:12 PM
Nice looking GSP! Great find.

You will not be disappointed. GSP's will hunt till they drop... That's where you have to set their limits, it's nothing for my dog to put in 15-18 miles in a day.

I have a 1 year old who was trained by Carl Porter o/o Lucerne (huntingdogtrainer.net). Carl did an outstanding job with Molly. We just finished her first hunting season and I was more than pleased with her performance.

Here's a pic of Molly and my son from the last weekend of the season.

http://i334.photobucket.com/albums/m426/k80parcours/JC_Molly_MNP_2011.jpg

How did those dog boots work out for you?

parcours
02-05-2011, 6:45 PM
How did those dog boots work out for you?

They work great!

The best part is, when Molly see's me take out the booty box, she knows it's time to hunt.

To address the hyper comments... I have two GSP's, Molly 1 and Mandy 10. Yes they do have lots of energy and that's what gives them the ability to hunt in very difficult terrain for hours. I hunt with several other GSP's (10 total) and other than the excitement of the hunt all the dogs are very well disciplined.

HDoctane
02-05-2011, 7:51 PM
" All I hunt are GSP's some people get them than get rid of them because there are very high energy i wouldnt recommend for someone who spends there time on the sofa when there not hunting these dogs need to be excersized but other than that they are the ATV's of the bird hunting my pointer kicks ***!!

ScottB
02-05-2011, 9:00 PM
This is a subject that I have been involved in for nearly 40 years.......I lived and hunted in Germany for many years and imported several German Wire hairs when I returned. Then I was involved with a woman that had probably the best wires in the country, We field trialed them and also did the show bench with the same dogs. One of her dogs won Westminster after being chosen as one of the best field dogs on the Continent. I have also owned and hunted many German shorthairs. The problem with the short hairs is they have been bred by Americans for field trial work so much that they are a big running dog. many are difficult to "live" with as they go from the kennel to the field and do not really live with there owners (of course many exceptions to that rule). In Germany, a Hunter is a very different individual than either here or in there own culture. They dress like a hunter nearly always and there dogs are constantly with them weather in a restaurant or in the field. These dogs are perfect by my opinion. They are quiet, well mannered and very obedient as well as being superb field dogs. In Germany, both breeds are classed as "Versatile Gun Dogs" and if you own a riever (hunting rights to a property) you must have one available to use. They are trained to point, retrieve, blood trail, sight trail, bring larger game to bay, and as a general scent hound. They are also tested (quietly) to be aggressive against cats and things like foxes to protect the game on the riever. There is a series of "tests" they have to pass before being allowed to have registered prodigy, a test for each speciality and all have to be passed before they can produce a puppies that can be registered by the club. One in particular that I always found fascinating was the scent over water test, They would release a clipped wing duck in a pond where the dog could not see it, They would release the dog and he had to find it within a short time. There is also an American Versatile Gun Dog club that is a good group that have similar practices. I prefer the Wire Hair because they are closer to the original German breeding than the American bred Shorthairs in general. They are more apt to be clam smart dogs that bounce off the walls less and work closer than the Shorthairs. I will be in Germany to pick up puppies this September from an old hunter friend of mine. He is a Count that is a full time hunter (like most hunters in Germany) and lives in a castle that his family has owned since it was built in the 1500's. The general population does not have the opportunity to hunt. Hunting is generally an activity reserved for upper class and almost a lifestyle rather than a hobby. (Back to dogs) In the midwest where they have "duck races" the German dogs are better than the labs and Chesapeake working the water, There is nothing that compares to walking up on a dog on point to flush a bird (particularly when there a couple of dogs backing him up) When I lived in Utah, we hunted some waterfowl. My dogs loved to work the water even breaking ice to retrieve birds. They would work in water so cold I couldn't watch them and took them home. These are incredible dogs in all respects. The only problems that I have ever had were with dogs that were indiscriminately bred by Americans not keeping with the original concepts of German husbandry.

Argonaut,

German dogs, performance bred, tested and registered in Germany, are plentiful in the US. Both the Deutsch Kurzhaar ("DK") and the Deutsch Drahthaar ("DD")are well represented by North American breed clubs affiliated with the German registries. There are two clubs for DKs; http://www.canamdk.org and http://www.nadkc.org. There is one large club for DD's http://www.vdd-gna.org

These are the real deal and some of the best lines in Germany are represented here. I have two DKs and they are as you describe - fantastic dogs who can do it all and change gears from a big running quail dog, down to a slow and methodical tracking dog in a heartbeat. They are phenomenal retrievers - in and out of the water. The Germans are as meticulous in breeding hunting dogs as they are engineering Porsches. 130 years of performance based breeding gets you a very high level and consistency of performance, health and temperament.

I also run them in the other group you mentioned, NAVHDA (North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association http://www.navhda.org), which is modeled on the German test system

There are some fine AKC shorthairs, but Americans tend to specialize breeds and breed for specific competitions. The Germans breed for hunting and for a versatile hunting dog, nothing beats the original Deutsch Kurzhaar (I'll grant the DDs are equal - its a matter pf personal preference).

Helpful_Cub
02-07-2011, 8:37 PM
I also run them in the other group you mentioned, NAVHDA (North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association http://www.navhda.org), which is modeled on the German test system

I have no idea what heritage Johnny came from. Oddly enough I know who he's puppy vet was in North Caroline so I'm going to try and see if I can get some papers. Having a black nose, I'm fairly sure he can't be AKC registered.

I'm actually planning on visiting the NAVHDA training day on the 20th. There's so much we (dog and me) need to learn still. Maybe I'll see you out there.

ScottB
02-07-2011, 8:59 PM
The AKC issue with black only extends to the show ring as far as I know. Not an issue for registration or hunt tests/trials.

The Germans have a saying: "A good dog can't be a bad color". I have seen some pure black DKs that were absolutely stunning. The black and white ones are very nice looking dogs. All that matters is ability, health, temperament and conformation.

The SoCal NAVHDA Chapter meets at Prado in Chino on the 3rd Sunday of the month. Our first training day of 2011 will be on February 20th. Come on out and see if its something you are interested in

http://socalnavhda.com/speedweb/site/index.php?site=NAVHDA&p=index.php

Argonaut
02-08-2011, 5:28 PM
Unlike here in the states, The Germans prefer dark dogs. They don't want them to be seen working in the field, Here they prefer light dogs that can be seen. I was in the Versatile gun dog club 30 years ago (during it's beginnings) and I do prefer there philosophy to the AKC but they don't have the discipline the Germans do. In Germany, They will only register 6 puppies from each litter, The rest are "culled" so each puppy is closely examined for anything that could be considered an imperfection. Even after "culling" if a defect shows up, the pup is put down. If a breeder does not comply, he is banned from registering any dogs for life. (there are few backyard breeders in Germany) If a dog fails a test even as a juvenile, he is generally put down. The people are much more prideful about there dogs and how they will improve the breed. There is no such thing as a "pet" grade puppy like here. I will be hunting Germany again this fall and looking for a new puppy or two to bring home. When I last talked to one of my German hunting buddies, He said that they were still doing the "outlawed" aggression test (quietly) In that test they judge the dog on how efficiently and quickly it kills a cat. The German hunters consider feral cats the bane of the hunting sports.

Helpful_Cub
02-09-2011, 6:47 AM
When I last talked to one of my German hunting buddies, He said that they were still doing the "outlawed" aggression test (quietly) In that test they judge the dog on how efficiently and quickly it kills a cat. The German hunters consider feral cats the bane of the hunting sports.

Thanks for more background information. I hope you find a pup that will work for you.

I think Johnny would have failed the cat test. I found one for him last week walking around the back side of the yard. The cat jump up onto the fence when Johnny finally saw it. I was hoping he'd chase it or something and burn more energy. It was still quiet so I looked over at him and saw he was just pointing at the cat. Guess he figures he's job is done and I'm suppose to deal with the cat.

CACitUP
02-09-2011, 1:12 PM
This is a good sign. You dont want a dog that hunts for himself. Thats your job to finish the kill.

Thanks for more background information. I hope you find a pup that will work for you.

I think Johnny would have failed the cat test. I found one for him last week walking around the back side of the yard. The cat jump up onto the fence when Johnny finally saw it. I was hoping he'd chase it or something and burn more energy. It was still quiet so I looked over at him and saw he was just pointing at the cat. Guess he figures he's job is done and I'm suppose to deal with the cat.

ScottB
02-09-2011, 8:22 PM
Usually, predators are not a hunting thing for the dog. They supposed to attack and kill. However, its not unusual for them to lock up first - they are assessing the situation and looking for the advantage. If the cat makes a break for it, the dog will go too.

That's the beauty of the versatile breeds: They know. They have all these jobs and are genetically programmed to know the difference and change gears on a moment's notice. Think of predator sharpness in terms of guarding the hen house. You have a bird dog that will hunt pheasants all day and won't kill the barnyard chickens -but will kill anything that tries to. Or a dog that will sit quietly in a duck blind all morning and then get out and run big on quail that afternoon, only to be called on that evening to blood track a wounded deer. They are really an amazing achievement.

BTW, the sharpness or hardness test as its called cannot be staged. There is a list of acceptable predators and it has to be an uncontained, chance (more or less) encounter witnessed by 2 licensed hunters. Allowable species vary by continent. In NA, I believe the list includes foxes, raccoons, coyotes, bobcats, badgers and I think a few more. My older one has mixed it up with a couple raccoons and has gone after several coyotes, but they have all gotten away. He got ahold of a neighborhood cat once but just gave it good shake and threw it.