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Hunter
08-15-2006, 2:01 PM
In case you missed the GCA speech Orest Michaels (head of CMP) gave at the Reno show, here is his response to a question on the CMP boards. This post captures his comments, made at the GCA meeting, on available CMP Garand rifles.......




"My best guess is that within the next 2-3 months (maybe sooner) the CMP will be completely out of all collector, correct, and service grades. Field and rack will last another 2 years - maybe. It will depend on how fast the field and rack sell after the others are gone. nothing else is in the pipeline." --- Orest Michaels 8-15-06


He has already stated the 1903s will likely be gone by Oct. if not sooner.

mailman
08-15-2006, 2:07 PM
Which is the MOST desirable of all the grades, if I were to pick one up?

metalhead357
08-15-2006, 2:48 PM
Which is the MOST desirable of all the grades, if I were to pick one up?

Usability= Service,
for collecting- the collector grade folled by the correct.........

30Cal
08-15-2006, 2:52 PM
I've been doing my part, but I don't think I can sustain a 1.5 CMP rifles per week rate of accumulation.

Hunter
08-15-2006, 2:53 PM
Which is the MOST desirable of all the grades, if I were to pick one up?

Since you stated "desirable" I take that to mean best appreciation in value.

The collectors are at the top of the heap ($1400), but 1) I think they are actually spoken for right now. They maybe able to reopen if they end up with some after the orders are filled; and 2) the corrects are pretty damn close if not equal at times to the collectors. So are these worth $500 more than the corrects??...... in some cases no, but it is the luck of the draw if you get a correct better than the collector. I've seen rifles in both groups that should have been in the other group.


My choice would be the corrects, as they are essentially like new. 100% HRA and in 95% or better condition from what I have seen (closer to 98%). Mostly nicks and scratches on the wood is what distracts from them being 99%. Metal will show very little wear if any. Prices at $900.

The key here is to have that piece of paper (CofA) from the CMP showing that the rifle was sold in that condition. This will help later to prove that the gun was not rebuilt into the current state if you choose to dispose of it in the future. {edited for phish}


The service grades are nice shooters and a good deal for that purpose, but nothing from a collectability point of view. Unless you just happen to get one with some desireable parts (sights, triggers, uncut op rods, ect...) But then you would have to part it out to get the value out of it. They sell for $550.

Some of the field grades ($450) will actually rival the service grades. This is where picking them out by hand pays off.

phish
08-15-2006, 2:57 PM
The key here is to have that piece of paper (CofA) from the CMP showing that the rifle was sold in that condition. This will help later to prove that the gun was not rebuilt into the current state when you go to sell it in the future.


BZZZZZZT!

:mad:

wuhungsix
08-15-2006, 3:05 PM
I wish I got on the CMP ride alot sooner. I'm itching to send in another order but debt is starting to pile :( . I should start selling guns to fund more rifles.

Hunter
08-15-2006, 3:07 PM
BZZZZZZT!



Sorry, that is the reality. People will sell these eventually, not right away but 2, 3, 5 years down the line you will see it happen. CMP doesn't want people to buy these with the intent to resale or for commercial purpose -- ie flipping them. The legal document you sign states that the rifle is for personal use initially, but that does not bind you legally to keeping that rifle forever.

The Soup Nazi
08-15-2006, 3:26 PM
I'm telling my dad to make this our next rifle. He'll want one for old times sake.

stevie
08-15-2006, 3:34 PM
And you need one for new times sake.

phish
08-15-2006, 3:35 PM
Sorry, that is the reality. People will sell these eventually, not right away but 2, 3, 5 years down the line you will see it happen. CMP doesn't want people to buy these with the intent to resale or for commercial purpose -- ie flipping them. The legal document you sign states that the rifle is for personal use initially, but that does not bind you legally to keeping that rifle forever.

I agree that this does happen. I really have no issue with people selling their CMP stuff at a nominal mark-up to reflect the market when they don't need it anymore, or are trying to fund other projects. It's the intentional "flippers" that get my goat.

Impossible to filter out by using a piece of paper for sure, I'm just old school that way. :cool:

Hunter
08-15-2006, 3:37 PM
I agree that this does happen. I really have no issue with people selling their CMP stuff at a nominal mark-up to reflect the market when they don't need it anymore, or are trying to fund other projects. It's the intentional "flippers" that get my goat.

Impossible to filter out by using a piece of paper for sure, I'm just old school that way. :cool:


I'm with you 100% phish. All of the ones I have collected will only go one place... to my kids.

The Soup Nazi
08-15-2006, 3:42 PM
I'm with you 100% phish. All of the ones I have collected will only go one place... to my kids.

Isn't that the philosophy we use with most guns unless they're either POS or stuff that we realize just aren't that great and have not much historical or sentimental value whatsoever?

Hunter
08-15-2006, 3:58 PM
Isn't that the philosophy we use with most guns unless they're either POS or stuff that we realize just aren't that great and have not much historical or sentimental value whatsoever?


For some guys yes. But I do know my share of "gun whores" that use them briefly but then they get rid of them to fund the next purchase! My dear friend is one of these guys. The guy just seems to find the hardest to find guns and very desirable ones, but he just cannot seem to hold onto them (usually it is the $$). My safe has been the benefactor of that relationship for years:D

30Cal
08-15-2006, 4:15 PM
CMP doesn't want people to buy these with the intent to resale or for commercial purpose -- ie flipping them. The legal document you sign states that the rifle is for personal use initially, but that does not bind you legally to keeping that rifle forever.

They probably should have stuck to selling only one type of rifle (Service Grade) if that was the intent. When you name them "Collector Grade" or "Correct Grade", you are pretty much tipping your hand that you don't really give a darn what happens to them the second they go out the door.

The original Grab Bag, 1 per lifetime sales scheme was the only one that really lived up to the "do not intend to resale" policy. I understand why they upped the limit to whatever it currently is and why they now grade the rifles (a simple matter of (sales) divided by (operating cost x time)), but it's stupid to think that people aren't going to employ their public education math skills.

Buy for $500 and sell for $800 twelve times a year at virtually zero risk. You certainly can't accuse them of being stupid!

Ty

30Cal
08-15-2006, 4:19 PM
And at least the guys that flip them are moving them along to someone else's hands. They guys that get my goat are the ones that just keep accumulating and accumulating them! ;) Checkvalves!

Ty

wuhungsix
08-15-2006, 4:54 PM
And at least the guys that flip them are moving them along to someone else's hands. They guys that get my goat are the ones that just keep accumulating and accumulating them! ;) Checkvalves!

Ty

yea quite HOARDING and share!:p

phish
08-15-2006, 5:06 PM
The guys that get my goat are the ones that just keep accumulating and accumulating them! ;) Checkvalves!

Ty

*cough* hps... *cough* :D

Hunter
08-15-2006, 5:07 PM
And at least the guys that flip them are moving them along to someone else's hands. They guys that get my goat are the ones that just keep accumulating and accumulating them! ;) Checkvalves!

Ty

Ok I'm guilty here with my family's share! :eek: :D

Eventually they all move along.. some just might take generations.

An example:
I shoot and collect BPCR in all makes and models (Ballards, Sharps, Peabody, Win, Rem Hepburns, ect....) and some of my better rifles are ones that have only passed thru 2-3 hands since the factory. One of my better Sharps came from a fellow who received it from his grandfather... who bought it new in 1879. So I'm the third owner of that gun and yes it will now stay in my family for a few generations if I have a say. Eventually it will be sold at somepoint to another "caretaker" for his/her enjoyment.

So I do believe most of the CMPs guns will eventually make it to the market, some sooner that others!

chickenfried
08-15-2006, 5:29 PM
I think I discovered the secret, same as the marathon golfer guy who starts playing golf everyday from /~5am. No wife, just girlfriend of 20+ years. No way would a wife let these guys get away with that stuff. :D :D


*cough* hps... *cough* :D

metalhead357
08-15-2006, 6:31 PM
*cough* hps... *cough* :D

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And dont forget 30cal his big bad self! How many ya' up to now?????:p

And NO, you're not allowed to ask me~ if the wife sees this thread she'll skin me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dwtt
08-15-2006, 7:46 PM
I remember back in the late 1980's when most of the people who bought Garands from the CMP were people who bought them for shooting matches at local clubs. Now it seems there are a lot of people who are missing out on the intent of the program, which is to promote civilian marksmanship skills, and buy the rifles to collect or to resell.

The Soup Nazi
08-15-2006, 7:55 PM
I remember back in the late 1980's when most of the people who bought Garands from the CMP were people who bought them for shooting matches at local clubs. Now it seems there are a lot of people who are missing out on the intent of the program, which is to promote civilian marksmanship skills, and buy the rifles to collect or to resell.

Well, guns were designed to be fired, designed to be use. Unless you have some commerative piece which was designed to be an ornament or decoration, you should use it. After all, thats why I chose firearms over something like collecting beanie babies or cards (I bought a deck of 60 MTG from my friend for 20 dollars, just ONE of em is worth 50 dollars right now, I could flip those over and buy something that goes bang nrigh tnow :D ) is because its something you get to enjoy rather than just ogle at.

phish
08-15-2006, 8:03 PM
I remember back in the late 1980's when most of the people who bought Garands from the CMP were people who bought them for shooting matches at local clubs. Now it seems there are a lot of people who are missing out on the intent of the program, which is to promote civilian marksmanship skills, and buy the rifles to collect or to resell.

That's been my sentiment as well. I must be some kind of throw-back from the 50's trapped in a Gen-Xer's body. There are a lot of theories as to why the marksmanship games of old are starting to fade, a lot of them have been discussed on dedicated NM forums.

It has been observed that the Garand and Springfield matches at Perry have been increasing in attendance though, so things aren't so bleak.

For me, as long as the military arms of old are used, enjoyed, and taken care of, the "bigger" picture is served of preserving part of our heritage. :cool:

30Cal
08-16-2006, 9:56 AM
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And dont forget 30cal his big bad self! How many ya' up to now?????:p

And NO, you're not allowed to ask me~ if the wife sees this thread she'll skin me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey now! I was steady at four since 1999 until just a few weeks ago! I seem to accumulate them in spurts. During the week of July 9, 1999, I got a a lottery M1D and my 18 month wait for a Select Grade came to an end.

Ty

metalhead357
08-16-2006, 12:11 PM
LOL! Well then ok~ I guess you're ok then. As for me~ sounds like I'm right between the numbers of you and Robert:eek: Good God I need to shoot more and collect less!!!!!!!!!!!!!..................... NAH!!!!!