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BayAreaShooter
01-15-2011, 8:51 PM
I know it is legal to carry a handgun with loaded mags in the car as long as the magazine is not inserted into the gun and the handgun is in a locked container. I was just wondering what the legality is if I was to go out for a drink and drive home. I would obviously be under the legal limit so I am not concerned about that but If I were to get pulled over and the LEO somehow finds out I have a firearm in the car is it still legal for me to be transporting a firearm while I have been drinking. I am not going to volunteer the information about me transporting a firearm I am just speaking hypothetically. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Cokebottle
01-15-2011, 8:56 PM
Perfectly legal.
Alcohol is only regulated WRT guns for concealed carry.

It's not smart, but it is perfectly legal to toss back a 6-pack while out shooting on BLM land.

Librarian
01-15-2011, 9:44 PM
Alcohol is only regulated WRT guns for concealed carry.
Is it?

A mention of alcohol is on the standard CCW app, but PC is silent; the app is not regulatory - restrictions that actually appear on the face of the license are.

Tripper
01-15-2011, 10:43 PM
huh, please clarify,
the restrictions page for my ccw app, says picketing, drinking, or being at a place that has alcohol as its primary service (etc...)
are you saying that;
if it doesn't have that actual restriction on the license itself, that I can ccw in a bar, or even one of the other mentioned places??
and while I'm talking about it, what if i'm at a place that primarily serves alcohol, but in the capacity of security (which was not part of my ccw request reason)?

no intent here to thread-jack, that statement simply directly relates to a situation in mind.

Tripper

the_quark
01-15-2011, 10:49 PM
@Tripper,

The application says that. But, the law says any restrictions on the permit must be listed on the permit. So, if you got busted in a bar with a license, and they tried to claim you were carrying without a permit (or in violation of the terms of your permit), it's hard to imagine it would stick, if your permit doesn't say "except in a bar".

Now, that said, if you get caught in such a situation, you'd almost certainly lose your permit, as long as California is discretionary issue.

Tripper
01-15-2011, 10:52 PM
thanks, i think :confused:

Tripper

Tripper
01-15-2011, 10:54 PM
I might see about requesting that "No Restrictions" is specifically stated on the permit.
I'll see if that will fly,
I just did my prints Friday, so it will be a while before I find out anything at all.

Tripper

the_quark
01-15-2011, 10:56 PM
thanks, i think :confused:


Basically you have the Sheriffs claiming more authority than they were granted under law. The same Sheriffs who grant you the license.

So, if you go against their dictates, you will have a good legal defense ("they had no legal authority"). But, as long as they get to decide who has a permit, you'll probably annoy them, and lose yours.

As a strict matter of law, it looks like drinking and carrying is not against the law. But, if the police find out you'll do it, they'll probably decide you have poor moral character and revoke your license.

It's up to you what to do with that.

Tripper
01-15-2011, 11:45 PM
I see the dilemma that could occur.

Tripper

Hopalong
01-16-2011, 7:15 AM
My take is that the restrictions on the application apply to everyone, and that by signing on, you agree to them.

The place on the rice paper that says "restrictions", I believe apply to the individual.

For example, if your good cause had something to do with your work, it may say in this area that you may CCW only to and from work.

Or maybe only within your county.

So, for example, my rice paper is blank in the "restrictions" area, however I believe I am bound by the "general restrictions" on the application.

My view is that if you are driving, ZERO alcohol is the only option.

B Strong
01-16-2011, 7:20 AM
Perfectly legal.
Alcohol is only regulated WRT guns for concealed carry.

It's not smart, but it is perfectly legal to toss back a 6-pack while out shooting on BLM land.

Lost a friend to a drunken "hunting" accident, alcohol and firearms don't mix.

If you need to drink. make sure the firearms are secure, and leave then secure until you're sober.

the_quark
01-16-2011, 9:16 AM
My take is that the restrictions on the application apply to everyone, and that by signing on, you agree to them.


You may feel that way as a matter of honor, but it's not what the law says. Anyone who is every accused as a crime for violating the terms on the application (and not listed on the application) should use as a defense that the license had no restrictions on it, and should win as a matter of law.

Tripper
01-16-2011, 9:28 AM
Thanks Quark,
Hopalong, I too was under the impression that I was agreeing to the terms in the app
I would compare it to Drivers License whereas it doesnt necessarily say on it that I cant drink and drive, but I've agreed to the conditions as a matter of my application.
Being in a place that serves alcohol, in and of itself does not constitute drinking, but the purpose of the establishment being alcohol service is in the application as restricted.
It would also seem that I could go along with the intent of the restriction as being not to drink while CCW. Sounds like I'll have to get it on there, or at least make it known as an addendum of sorts to my app
B-Strong, I agree,
Dont drink and shoot ....your friend,
no pun intended, its just the likely person to get shot

Tripper

Hopalong
01-16-2011, 9:29 AM
You may feel that way as a matter of honor, but it's not what the law says. Anyone who is every accused as a crime for violating the terms on the application (and not listed on the application) should use as a defense that the license had no restrictions on it, and should win as a matter of law.
Try that, and let me know how it works out for you.

Maybe you would not be convicted of a crime, but I doubt you'd keep your CCW.

As far as I know, the local sheriff is judge, jury, and executioner as far as CCW privilege goes in this state.

Remember, in this state, CCW is a revocable privilege, and not a right.

Are you saying that the local sheriff just puts those restrictions on the application to take up space and waste ink, and doesn't expect signees to follow them?

Tripper
01-16-2011, 9:41 AM
I dont think I'll attempt being the test subject. Thats why I think I will get an addendum to my app, so that it would actually be a known thing, they may tell me then if its a outright NO, if they dont say, I was going to submit it similar to a add-on gun, but in this case it would be an add-on employment location, then at least I'd have a better chance at it not being revoked later.

Tripper

the_quark
01-16-2011, 9:47 AM
Try that, and let me know how it works out for you.

Maybe you would not be convicted of a crime, but I doubt you'd keep your CCW.

As far as I know, the local sheriff is judge, jury, and executioner as far as CCW privilege goes in this state.

Remember, in this state, CCW is a revocable privilege, and not a right.

Are you saying that the local sheriff just puts those restrictions on the application to take up space and waste ink, and doesn't expect signees to follow them?

I have said precisely this many times (in fact, just a couple of messages ago, I said "if you get caught in such a situation, you'd almost certainly lose your permit, as long as California is discretionary issue"). I don't know why this is so inflammatory to have said. The law clearly says that restrictions must be listed on your permit. So, if you violate the restrictions on your app, they can't convict you of carrying a concealed weapon without a license - you had a license.

But, yes, I am certain that if you do it, the Sheriff will revoke your license, because you are absolutely right that you carry at his (or her) pleasure. I am not saying you can do it with impunity - I'm just saying I don't believe you can be convicted of a crime for doing it.

Now, whether that's a risk worth taking is up to you, and I'm certainly not trying to encourage that behavior. I try to understand the law, though, and that's my understanding of it.

dantodd
01-16-2011, 9:50 AM
Hopalong, perhaps from up on your high house it was difficult to read Brett's durst response but he said that your ccw would likely be revoked if you are caught carrying while drinking. Unless you are a cop.

Fjold
01-16-2011, 10:19 AM
Brett, You're beating your head against the wall. They won't read what your write they'll take it out of context just to be argumentative.

Tripper
01-16-2011, 10:37 AM
I understood both Quark and Hopalong as saying the same thing.
as I may not be criminal in doing so, but may get my license revoked.

my understanding on the app was that I was bound by the no alcohol, Hopalong agreed.
Quark even agreed to the same, that it was on the app, he simply elaborated that if the restriction isnt specifically stated on the Permit itself, then the restriction doesnt exist.
I think they both said that if it happened I would likely get my permit revoked at the very least.
its all good

Tripper

Hopalong
01-16-2011, 12:27 PM
Hopalong, perhaps from up on your high house it was difficult to read Brett's durst response but he said that your ccw would likely be revoked if you are caught carrying while drinking. Unless you are a cop.

That's "high horse" to you.:D

Cokebottle
01-16-2011, 1:29 PM
Lost a friend to a drunken "hunting" accident, alcohol and firearms don't mix.

If you need to drink. make sure the firearms are secure, and leave then secure until you're sober.
Like I said, it's not smart, but it's not illegal.

BayAreaShooter
01-16-2011, 2:43 PM
Ok this thread took a turn in a different direction. I do not mind all of you discussing CCW stuff but I just need a yes or no answer. Is it legal for me to have a gun in my car if I have been drinking. I assume it is yes as someone said it is perfectly legal to drink and shoot so I assume drinking and transporting a firearm is alright, but we all know what happens when we ASSume now don't we.

Librarian
01-16-2011, 3:26 PM
Is it legal for me to have a gun in my car if I have been drinking.

I assume it is yes as someone said it is perfectly legal to drink and shoot so I assume drinking and transporting a firearm is alright, but we all know what happens when we ASSume now don't we.

Yes.

The penal code is absolutely silent about the combination of alcohol and firearms. On just the combination, there is no crime with which you could be charged.

A creative LEO or prosecutor might come up with any number of other things.

dantodd
01-16-2011, 4:10 PM
That's "high horse" to you.:D

Sorry I was drunk when I posted that. :D :D

BayAreaShooter
01-16-2011, 5:45 PM
Yes.

The penal code is absolutely silent about the combination of alcohol and firearms. On just the combination, there is no crime with which you could be charged.

A creative LEO or prosecutor might come up with any number of other things.

Thank you very much. :D