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View Full Version : Utah ahead of the curve


vantec08
01-15-2011, 6:22 AM
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700100439/Utah-lawmaker-Guns-should-be-legal-without-permit.html

Havoc70
01-15-2011, 6:23 AM
Go, Utah!

VegasND
01-15-2011, 6:37 AM
Good -- now, if only Nevada lawmakers could lose their 'CA-lite' focus and try to be more like the other surrounding states (not including OR) ...

Pred@tor
01-15-2011, 7:20 AM
Gun Violence Prevention Center board member Stephen H. Gunn said Utah should be tightening its permitting process. For example, the state should require that permit holders prove they know how to shoot a gun.

"We should go the other direction and more greatly restrict the class of people who can carry a concealed gun or openly carry a gun," Gunn said.

Ironic the guy's last name is "gun!"

jpigeon
01-15-2011, 7:27 AM
I need to migrate to Utah.

Ape
01-15-2011, 7:27 AM
Now THIS is the kind of thing I was talking about in the thread about having the right to OC being stripped away in Cali! :thumbsup:
Utah should be a guide for all states to follow!

cdtx2001
01-15-2011, 7:29 AM
"We should go the other direction and more greatly restrict the class of people who can carry a concealed gun or openly carry a gun," Gunn said.

Yeah great idea, only the upper class should be able to carry, we gotta protect the rich. Sounds a little discriminatory to me, who would ever think that was ok?? Oh, wait a minute....

Liberty1
01-15-2011, 10:25 AM
Will requiring licenses for non residents violate equal protection? And when will they lose their their silly condition 1 open carry ban?

press1280
01-15-2011, 12:13 PM
Yea, they may have an Equal protection problem. They should just do what AZ did, keep issuing permits, and make CC legal w/o a permit for those who can legally own a gun.

donw
01-15-2011, 12:23 PM
does anyone actually believe California would do what other states do?

Marcus Cicero
01-15-2011, 12:26 PM
Constitutional carry: I see a trend here and I like it.

I wonder how those who demand a background check for the acquisition of a firearm feel regarding those who are not required to pass a background check to carry a firearm regardless of how the weapon was acquired.

IrishPirate
01-15-2011, 12:35 PM
this is good. The more states that do this the better it is for our cause here in CA. I'm sure Montana and Nevada are going to chime in any day now...

NightOwl
01-15-2011, 2:14 PM
I read something a couple days ago that a Nevada lawmaker was drafting a constitutional carry bill, but heck if I can find even a trace of that news now by any means of searching for it.

Anyhow, take it for what it's worth. There's a rumor one Nevada lawmaker will propose constitutional carry this year. lol

vantec08
01-15-2011, 2:42 PM
does anyone actually believe California would do what other states do?



No. Many voters in CA would rather hold inanimate objects accountable rather than criminals because criminals are the constituency of a major political party.

PhantomII
01-15-2011, 2:51 PM
So let me get this straight. In Utah you can have as many wives and guns as you want and carry guns with no problems. Sweet. :)

By the Mormon religion, multiple wives is OK, but it's still against the law as far as I know.

Besides that, I can see having lots of guns, but one wife is a handful to deal with, I don't think I could handle more than that.

M198
01-15-2011, 3:16 PM
Will requiring licenses for non residents violate equal protection? And when will they loose their their silly condition 1 open carry ban?

Does that extend to 1911's in condition 2 (round in chamber, hammer forward)?

CCWFacts
01-15-2011, 3:19 PM
this is good. The more states that do this the better it is for our cause here in CA. I'm sure Montana and Nevada are going to chime in any day now...

Next on deck is Wisconsin. They have no CCW at all now, and will be adopting a CCW system this year. The only question is, will it be a strong shall-issue law, or will it be Arizona-style (CCW optional).

Also apparently TX is pushing to go "constitutional carry". That's a big deal because, unlike AZ, AK and VT, Texas has big cities, dense urban areas, and your classic crime-ridden minority areas. It's one thing for constitutional carry to work out in sparsely populated Alaska. It's another thing entirely to see how it will impact things in Houston.

The reason why I'm emphasizing that is because it may play the same role Florida did in 1986 with shall-issue. There were a handful of shall-issue states before Florida went shall-issue, but Florida was the first state with large urban areas (including high-crime minority areas) to go shall-issue, and a lot of people said, "shall-issue may be fine in sparsely-populated low-crime Washington state, but it will be a disaster in Miami!" Florida proved that to be wrong. TX may be the same kind of proof-of-concept.

I personally think constitutional carry will work fine in Texas. How it would work in California is something I would worry about. I know too many anti-gun liberals here who would want to carry without any training...

Pred@tor
01-15-2011, 5:15 PM
For Missouri to go Constitutional Carry the State Constitution in the Right to keep and bear arms claus from 1947 would have to be changed.

Dan-0-
01-15-2011, 5:31 PM
Awesome snow, now constitutional carry.
If they adopt the 1911 as their state gun, it's gonna be tough to not move there.

Nor-Cal
01-15-2011, 7:42 PM
I'm glad to hear this I, and I also heard nevada wanted to do the same in reguards to Constitutional carry!

mecam
01-15-2011, 7:54 PM
does anyone actually believe California would do what other states do?

Maybe in 2020. :rolleyes:




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Ike Arumba
01-15-2011, 9:26 PM
By the Mormon religion, multiple wives is OK

Not since the Woodruff Manifesto of 1890.

Jedi
01-15-2011, 10:13 PM
If you know anything about the history of the LDS Church (the "Mormons") then you can understand why they are so very pro 2nd Amendment. Oh, and I think that anyone who is interested in just how easily their rights can be stripped away should learn about what happened in Missouri... like the disarming of the Mormons, the massacre at Haun's Mill, and the enactment of the Extermination Order. No matter how you feel about the LDS Church, the actions of the government of Missouri exemplify why the Founding Fathers saw the need for a 2nd Amendment.

nicki
01-16-2011, 12:02 AM
Arizona has a few medium sized cities, so any state that is smaller in population may be the next costitutional carry state.

Montana, Idaho and Wyoming would be likely candidates for constitututional carry.

I could see 5 to 10 states doing this within next 2 years.

Nicki

Liberty1
01-16-2011, 5:02 AM
Does that extend to 1911's in condition 2 (round in chamber, hammer forward)?

Good question, it should be similar to carrying a revolver with the hammer on an empty chamber. Cock and fire. I'll try to find out.

Liberty1
01-18-2011, 3:35 AM
Does that extend to 1911's in condition 2 (round in chamber, hammer forward)?

Yes, two stages from firing AND no round in the chamber. For revolvers, hammer must rest on an empty chamber AND next chamber must also be empty. (Heck that turns a 5 shot into a 3 shot!!!)

Jack L
01-18-2011, 6:08 AM
He's probably a relative of Peter Gun.............

J.D.Allen
01-18-2011, 7:20 AM
Also apparently TX is pushing to go "constitutional carry". That's a big deal because, unlike AZ, AK and VT, Texas has big cities, dense urban areas, and your classic crime-ridden minority areas. It's one thing for constitutional carry to work out in sparsely populated Alaska. It's another thing entirely to see how it will impact things in Houston.



Umm...huh? Phoenix is like the sixth largest city population-wise in the U.S. Bigger than San Diego. And it certainly has high crime minority areas. I think we already have the high population test case for Constitutional Carry, and it's going just fine.

Correction: Phoenix is the fifth largest city.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population

Mulay El Raisuli
01-18-2011, 7:40 AM
I personally think constitutional carry will work fine in Texas. How it would work in California is something I would worry about. I know too many anti-gun liberals here who would want to carry without any training...


"Anti-gun liberals" want to carry???


The Raisuli

rugershooter
01-18-2011, 1:52 PM
Montana, Wyoming, Idaho and possibly Nevada are also drafting bills for Constitutional Carry. If it all goes through, that'll be 7 or 8 states (depending on Nevada) that will actually recognize the 2nd Amendment's "bear arms" clause.

Glock22Fan
01-18-2011, 2:24 PM
Originally Posted by M198 http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=5624799#post5624799)
Does that extend to 1911's in condition 2 (round in chamber, hammer forward)?

Yes, two stages from firing AND no round in the chamber. For revolvers, hammer must rest on an empty chamber AND next chamber must also be empty. (Heck that turns a 5 shot into a 3 shot!!!)

No, he specified a 1911 with a round in the chamber. Still two actions, but the round in the chamber makes the answer "No."

Deleted: something I got wrong (very unusual :D)

And, IIRC, if you have a concealed carry permit, you can open carry with one in the chamber and ready to fire.

From UtahConcealedCarry.com (http://www.utahconcealedcarry.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4084)
<B>
U.C.A. 76-10-502 (http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_10_050200.htm). When weapon deemed loaded. (http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_10_050200.htm)
</B>

(1) For the purpose of this chapter, any pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle, or other weapon described in this part shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile in the firing position.
(2) Pistols and revolvers shall also be deemed to be loaded when an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile is in a position whereby the manual operation of any mechanism once would cause the unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile to be fired.
(3) A muzzle loading firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinders.
(http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_10_050200.htm)
Let's understand this. (http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_10_050200.htm)




Any firearm is loaded if there is a live round in the firing position (e.g. under the hammer).
Any handgun is also considered loaded if you can fire the gun by any single mechanical action (e.g. just pulling the trigger).
Examples of a loaded handgun:




Any revolver with a live round under the hammer.
Any autoloader with a live round chambered.
An uncocked, double-action revolver with no live round under the hammer, but a live round in the next chamber to rotate in.
A revolver with a live round under the hammer, but no live round in the next chamber to rotate in.
Examples of an unloaded handgun:




A double-action revolver with no live round under the hammer, and no live round in the next chamber to rotate in.
A single-action revolver with no live round under the hammer, but with a live round in the next chamber to rotate in.
An autoloader with no live round chambered, but with a fully charged magazine in the well.
(http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_10_050200.htm)

J.D.Allen
01-18-2011, 2:27 PM
Now if only we could get TX to get on board with OC, or at least get rid of the anti printing laws...

Pred@tor
01-18-2011, 2:29 PM
Constitutional carry: I see a trend here and I like it.

I wonder how those who demand a background check for the acquisition of a firearm feel regarding those who are not required to pass a background check to carry a firearm regardless of how the weapon was acquired.

Hmm yes I see a BC supporter in here that wants to move to Utah yet they don't want him there since he wants to stop their private capitalist sales. sad :(