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benny312
01-14-2011, 12:25 AM
Does anybody know whether the purchase of firearms would go on any public records that would become visible in background checks?

I have received a tentative offer from a firm that handles sensitive information of many large institutions. As part of the application requirement, they must conduct a thorough background check on all prospective employees. The check is pretty in-depth and requires the submission of my fingerprints, which I believe is for checking FBI files. The company culture is quite liberal and I won't be surprised if gun-ownership is viewed negatively.

It is our right to own a firearm under the 2nd amendment but you can't always control what people think. I would really like to know what my prospective employer could know about me regarding the possession of firearms.

the_quark
01-14-2011, 1:25 AM
For simple ownership of routine firearms, there are effectively no searchable records at all (public or private) that I'm aware of.

I've heard rumors of people with CCWs and registered assault weapons as showing up as such if an officer does a check on you during a stop, but I've never seen that from an unimpeachable source.

Now, that isn't to say you couldn't have some records, yourself - for example, from a divorce in which your ex mentions your firearms in a public document or somesuch.

Anchors
01-14-2011, 3:06 AM
Or that big CALGUNS sticker on your bumper.

:D

pro-nra
01-14-2011, 6:20 AM
I just renewed my US Government security clearance last year. The documentation alone you fill out is over 50 pages long and ask information so detailed you wonder why the government want to know such information. Despite the 50+ pages of questions, there was nothing mentioning firearms ownership at all. If they check my DOJ files they would have saw that I had too many handguns and several so called " registered assault weapons" and my clearance was adjudicated without any issues. I can't imagine a private firm would conduct more in depth background check than for a government security clearance but then again you never know.

B Strong
01-14-2011, 6:24 AM
Does anybody know whether the purchase of firearms would go on any public records that would become visible in background checks?

I have received a tentative offer from a firm that handles sensitive information of many large institutions. As part of the application requirement, they must conduct a thorough background check on all prospective employees. The check is pretty in-depth and requires the submission of my fingerprints, which I believe is for checking FBI files. The company culture is quite liberal and I won't be surprised if gun-ownership is viewed negatively.

It is our right to own a firearm under the 2nd amendment but you can't always control what people think. I would really like to know what my prospective employer could know about me regarding the possession of firearms.

In a pre-employment background check, even a criminal background check will not turn up CCW/AW/NFA permits.

Simple title one firearms? not even on ther radar.

Proceed, and best of luck.

emcon5
01-14-2011, 6:49 AM
I have a 5 year FBI background check, and nobody mentioned it.

On edit: I would be more worried about your credit. I ran my credit report before submitting mine and found something I didn't know was there.

Particularly if you or a dependent had any big medical expenses. Those guys can't bill to save their lives, and have no problem kicking something over to collections if they are too lazy to pick up a phone.

Brickman
01-14-2011, 7:26 AM
Even if they did have access to such records, what would stop you from applying anyway? Does it cost money to go through the application process?

Wherryj
01-14-2011, 7:38 AM
I have a 5 year FBI background check, and nobody mentioned it.

On edit: I would be more worried about your credit. I ran my credit report before submitting mine and found something I didn't know was there.

Particularly if you or a dependent had any big medical expenses. Those guys can't bill to save their lives, and have no problem kicking something over to collections if they are too lazy to pick up a phone.

My local hospital is particularly good at that. We recently had a son, and the insurance allows for a $100 copay for the hospitalization. Somehow our hospital also managed to sneak in a $100 copay for the anesthesiolgist in a legal, but not intended, end run around the insurance rules.

The problem was that they only BILLED us for the hospitalization. Knowing the contract stated that we had that bill, we paid it and didn't enquire about other bills. The hospital didn't send us the second bill, but was more than happy to send us to collections for it.

I've run into dozens of people who've had this happen. It appears that you are correct. It is far easier to just send someone to collections than it is to inquire about whether the bill has even been received.

Legasat
01-14-2011, 7:40 AM
It would seem the Calgunner in this thread disagrees...

Cop in Cruiser looks up my latest DROS (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=383252)

creekside
01-14-2011, 8:11 AM
My understanding is that CA firearms registration information is available to most if not all law enforcement dispatchers in CLETS.

I've had more than one interaction with law enforcement turn surreal as a result. Sample of radio traffic I couldn't help overhearing, as I was detained at the time:

LEO: "How many firearms does the subject have?"

Dispatcher: "Uh . . . I'm still scrolling down."

voiceofreason
01-14-2011, 8:14 AM
Or that big CALGUNS sticker on your bumper.

:D


Funny!
:D

Anchors
01-14-2011, 1:55 PM
My understanding is that CA firearms registration information is available to most if not all law enforcement dispatchers in CLETS.

I've had more than one interaction with law enforcement turn surreal as a result. Sample of radio traffic I couldn't help overhearing, as I was detained at the time:

LEO: "How many firearms does the subject have?"

Dispatcher: "Uh . . . I'm still scrolling down."

Hahaha. Such a win.

IGOTDIRT4U
01-14-2011, 2:22 PM
My understanding is that CA firearms registration information is available to most if not all law enforcement dispatchers in CLETS.

I've had more than one interaction with law enforcement turn surreal as a result. Sample of radio traffic I couldn't help overhearing, as I was detained at the time:

LEO: "How many firearms does the subject have?"

Dispatcher: "Uh . . . I'm still scrolling down."

lol.

Ok, a lot of that info is easily found, but it depends who is looking and how detailed.

When I refer a case to an investigator for a background check, he/she checks EVERYTHING. CCW, firearms ownership, courts, DMV, address (and all cross references by various indices), BK's, credit, phone, car reg's, property, licenses of all types, even aviation, etc., permits, and the list goes on. Most of the times, what comes back is what is expected or what I am looking for, but sometimes I do get a surprise. In all the years I sent out these requests, I have once got a list of guns, and twice got a CCW. (Oddly, I get pilot's licenses quite a bit)

The guns that showed up were either as someone said, registered NFA items or AW, or handguns.

But, these were not a pre-employment check. So, again, it depends on what they asked the compnay doing the checking to do. Yes, the info is out there and can be obtianed, but who knows if it is the "industry standard" to get it 'all'.

Paul S
01-14-2011, 2:37 PM
My understanding is that CA firearms registration information is available to most if not all law enforcement dispatchers in CLETS.

I've had more than one interaction with law enforcement turn surreal as a result. Sample of radio traffic I couldn't help overhearing, as I was detained at the time:

LEO: "How many firearms does the subject have?"

Dispatcher: "Uh . . . I'm still scrolling down."

You are correct. Though CLETS is actually the pipeline through which the various data bases are accessed. Technically it is a high speed message switch.
It is amazing how many data basis are available. Firearms of all kinds and type are in the AFS (Automated Firearms System) Some departments have their CAD system set up to automatically query the AFS at the same time the DMV files are queried..sometimes it is policy that dispatchers will manually run such check and still other departments do not automatically check in AFS, doing so only upon the officer's request. The systems are so fast to return data now that I suspect more and more departments have their systems set up to do it every time a check is run.

As far as DROS info in AFS..I hear it is a mixed bag. Sometime DOJ is slow to get the data entered..other times it seems to occur overnight. I am adding a new pistol to my CCW and my gun guy advised that I take a copy of the DROS with me to the department just to cover for the data entry lag which sometimes occurs.

wildhawker
01-14-2011, 2:41 PM
CCW permits do also add the listed handguns to the AFS according to DOJ.

Jaxpire
01-14-2011, 2:55 PM
Not to get off topic but, I still wonder how around 2000 I got a letter from DOJ about my SKS that might be a AW if it had a detachable magazine in it ( it’s fixed mag. BTW). The same SKS I purchased in 1991.

I Thought that DROS information was not saved for long guns.

CSDGuy
01-14-2011, 3:14 PM
As has been stated, CLETS is basically just an interface to a number of databases. If you have ever registered a firearm, it'll be listed in the AFS. From what I understand, long gun DROS entries do not have a lot of fields listed for the dealer to fill in. Pistols, however, will include make, model, serial, caliber. What you'll see in the DROS for a long gun is basically that a long gun was purchased on a particular date. Now if someone were to get their hands on your 4473 and enter that into the AFS outside the DROS entry, then a lot more info would be available.

Anchors
01-14-2011, 4:14 PM
Not to get off topic but, I still wonder how around 2000 I got a letter from DOJ about my SKS that might be a AW if it had a detachable magazine in it ( it’s fixed mag. BTW). The same SKS I purchased in 1991.

I Thought that DROS information was not saved for long guns.

That is strange and not cool.

As has been stated, CLETS is basically just an interface to a number of databases. If you have ever registered a firearm, it'll be listed in the AFS. From what I understand, long gun DROS entries do not have a lot of fields listed for the dealer to fill in. Pistols, however, will include make, model, serial, caliber. What you'll see in the DROS for a long gun is basically that a long gun was purchased on a particular date. Now if someone were to get their hands on your 4473 and enter that into the AFS outside the DROS entry, then a lot more info would be available.

I thought that was outside the scope of the laws on record keeping for firearms?
I thought long guns weren't registered and to manually register them would be illegal for the state to do? I'm probably wrong though.

jpigeon
01-14-2011, 7:16 PM
Big brother is watching u...

CSDGuy
01-14-2011, 7:28 PM
That is strange and not cool.



I thought that was outside the scope of the laws on record keeping for firearms?
I thought long guns weren't registered and to manually register them would be illegal for the state to do? I'm probably wrong though.
It is supposed to be illegal for the state to do that. Long guns aren't supposed to be registered. I'd also be quite surprised if long gun purchases (basically the fact that you purchased a long gun of some kind) were actually deleted completely from the AFS.

Cokebottle
01-14-2011, 7:47 PM
Not to get off topic but, I still wonder how around 2000 I got a letter from DOJ about my SKS that might be a AW if it had a detachable magazine in it ( it’s fixed mag. BTW). The same SKS I purchased in 1991.

I Thought that DROS information was not saved for long guns.
The FFL was probably audited and the DOJ made copies of any 4473s and their accompanying DROS that were related to possible AW added in the 1999 ban.

langss
01-14-2011, 8:06 PM
What happens to the files when a gun shop goes out of business ?

wildhawker
01-14-2011, 8:25 PM
What happens to the files when a gun shop goes out of business ?

They (4473s) are sent to the ATF for archiving.

RickD427
01-14-2011, 8:52 PM
Benny,

Information drawn from handgun DROS and assault weapon registrations is maintained in the Department of Justice’s Automated Firearms System (AFS). Although California doesn’t use the term “Registration”, the AFS system is the functional equivalent. Any user of the system can quickly see what owner corresponds to a particular weapon serial number, and can see what weapons correspond to a particular person, provided that the data is resident in AFS.

Data contained within AFS would likely fall within California’s definition of a “Public Record”:

“Public records” includes any writing containing information relating to the conduct of the public’s business prepared, owned, used, or retained by any state or local agency regardless of physical form or characteristics. “Public records” in the custody of, or maintained by, the Governor’s office means any writing prepared on or after January 6, 1975. (Government Code Section 6252(e))

The Public Records Act provides that government agencies must provide records, upon request within 10 days (with an extra 14 days for certain cases), unless they claim an exemption from disclosure. The list of exemptions fills several pages in the code. None of them appear to directly cover AFS records. There is some limited protection given to CCW applications. It’s the agency’s prerogative to claim an exception. You, as the subject of the record, are not involved in the claim.

One key thing to remember is that the person conducting the background check would have to apply to the DOJ for this information. I don’t know of any mechanism that would allow a private data collection / background service (Lexis/Nexus, Intelius,, etc) to have wholesale access to the information. Most background checks that I have seen done by private entities generally use one of the commercial information aggregating services.

Unbeliever
01-14-2011, 11:03 PM
lol.
(Oddly, I get pilot's licenses quite a bit)


Pilot certificates are no problem to get. Heck, the FAA will let you download a 64 Megabyte ZIP file with them here:

http://registry.faa.gov/database/CS012011.zip for Comma separated

http://registry.faa.gov/database/FX012011.zip for Fixed length.

Complete with addresses and their last medical.

--Carlos V.