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View Full Version : Poll: Will AB962 be overturned?


sawchain
01-13-2011, 8:33 PM
More specifically, do you think AB962 will be overturned in 2011?

Mstrty
01-13-2011, 8:34 PM
Wildhawker said so. So yep.

SScott
01-13-2011, 8:38 PM
No
Keep expectations low and you'll never be disappointed.

wildhawker
01-13-2011, 9:04 PM
The law will be overturned, partially or totally. That said, expect a cleanup bill this year.

USMC VET
01-13-2011, 9:12 PM
The law will partially be overturned but not fully overturned.

Carnivore
01-13-2011, 10:08 PM
Nope not going to happen, never, no way, no how, na da. Now darn it prove me wrong P L E A S E ! ! ! ! !

chris
01-13-2011, 10:10 PM
i didn't vote in this poll due the fact that i want to wait and see and also read that this law is in the shredder.

radio2
01-13-2011, 10:14 PM
No, LA city has had this for years and now they are going to make it all city's and county's
Done deal

mossy
01-13-2011, 10:15 PM
nope, it will go into effect.

thrasherfox
01-13-2011, 10:19 PM
I dont think it will ever get over turned.

Just like the assult rifle ban. The federal ban expired what.. in 2004. and California enacted their own ban and no one has been able to get rid of it.

California has a ban on high cap magazines and no one has been able to get rid of it.

Once this thing takes affect, we are done. we wont be able to get rid of it. and then once the liberals are sure we cant get rid of it, they will start banning other ammo one by one.

I heard this a long time ago through some pretty reliable sources.

anti gun people have realized they can never get rid of our guns. So the next best solution is to impact our ammo supply. if they can chip away at our ability to obtain ammo, then eventually we will become a country with a ton of guns but no ammo/

They will start with handgun ammo ban.

And after that has been in affect for awhile, they will then create a law saying "well we have a ban on handgun ammo, but it doesnt do us any good because people just reload. So they next will go after preventing us from relaoding our own handgun ammo.

Then once that step has been accomplished, they will start working on rifle calibers.

With the final goal of eliminating all ammo from society. factory ammo and reloading ammo.

Not saying it is going to happen over night, or even in the next 10 years. but that is what they are working towards.

Allowing them to pass AB-962 was the worse thing that could have been done. it allowed them to get their foot in the door.

vincnet11
01-13-2011, 10:26 PM
This is just BS. I am going to be forced to buy ammo from Wal Mart(20+ miles away) which is always out of .45 ammo. I can no longer shoot my Glock 21, this is a rape of my constitutional rights as a human.

NorCalDustin
01-13-2011, 10:53 PM
We'll never know if it can be overturned or not unless we stay positive now, hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

kel-tec-innovations
01-13-2011, 11:00 PM
No cause we are here just voting what MIGHT happen while no one is doing anything to change it

mossy
01-13-2011, 11:05 PM
No cause we are here just voting what MIGHT happen while no one is doing anything to change it

there is nothing i can do. ( i know someone here is going to say donate to CGN) i am not going to donate untill i see improvement in CA, right now it is only getting worse.

Legasat
01-13-2011, 11:12 PM
Yes, but not immediately. I think it will take a couple of years.

Anchors
01-13-2011, 11:41 PM
This is just BS. I am going to be forced to buy ammo from Wal Mart(20+ miles away) which is always out of .45 ammo. I can no longer shoot my Glock 21, this is a rape of my constitutional rights as a human.

Try again. Two Walmart employees have told me they will stop selling ammo.
I hope it is "sporting goods stand FUD" (ala gun shop FUD), but I kind of trust the dude who has worked that counter probably longer than I've been alive.

We'll see.

Paul S
01-14-2011, 12:09 AM
No cause we are here just voting what MIGHT happen while no one is doing anything to change it

Oh is that so.....hmmm apparently you haven't read the many posts about the three lawsuits trying to block AB962...the demise of two of them and the one which will be heard next week.

And what have YOU done to help the cause? The lawsuits cost money you know.

Will we win?...probably not...but we are trying.

ale014
01-14-2011, 12:09 AM
I believe it will. As far as I know, we have some good people working on it. Hopefully it all works out.

N6ATF
01-14-2011, 12:21 AM
I don't see how it will effectively be overturned, if the state just has to say "hey your honor, please stay this ruling while we appeal our victim disarmament all the way to the supreme court".

thrasherfox
01-14-2011, 4:17 AM
I just hope they dont ban going out of state to get ammo.

If I do purchase any ammo within the state I was hoping to purchase it from the guy I buy my guns from. I think we have established a pretty good relationship and I trust the guy not to rape me with jacked up pricing.

But as a few weeks ago he still had no clear direction on what he was supposed to do. And he is a retired chief, he just wants things to be simple in life, cant blame him at all. and he said if it turns out to be too much of a hassle he just wont sell ammo.

I received some information in another thread from a law firm explaining all the legal battles that have been and are being fought and it was information I was not aware of.

What scares me is all the people and all the law suits that are being filed to try and protect our rights here in California and it seems we are still losing ground.

I would hate to see how trampled our rights would be if no one was doing anything.

wildhawker
01-14-2011, 10:55 AM
We're going to beat the AW and hicap mag bans also.

Patience is more than a virtue, it's a necessity.

I dont think it will ever get over turned.

Just like the assult rifle ban. The federal ban expired what.. in 2004. and California enacted their own ban and no one has been able to get rid of it.

California has a ban on high cap magazines and no one has been able to get rid of it.

Once this thing takes affect, we are done. we wont be able to get rid of it. and then once the liberals are sure we cant get rid of it, they will start banning other ammo one by one.

I heard this a long time ago through some pretty reliable sources.

anti gun people have realized they can never get rid of our guns. So the next best solution is to impact our ammo supply. if they can chip away at our ability to obtain ammo, then eventually we will become a country with a ton of guns but no ammo/

They will start with handgun ammo ban.

And after that has been in affect for awhile, they will then create a law saying "well we have a ban on handgun ammo, but it doesnt do us any good because people just reload. So they next will go after preventing us from relaoding our own handgun ammo.

Then once that step has been accomplished, they will start working on rifle calibers.

With the final goal of eliminating all ammo from society. factory ammo and reloading ammo.

Not saying it is going to happen over night, or even in the next 10 years. but that is what they are working towards.

Allowing them to pass AB-962 was the worse thing that could have been done. it allowed them to get their foot in the door.

Milsurp Collector
01-14-2011, 11:13 AM
This is just BS. I am going to be forced to buy ammo from Wal Mart(20+ miles away) which is always out of .45 ammo. I can no longer shoot my Glock 21, this is a rape of my constitutional rights as a human.

Learn to reload. I have no plans to buy any more commercial centerfire ammo, only components, and I live in Oregon where ammo is widely sold and available over the Internet. AB 962 does not affect reloading components (brass, bullets, powder, primers) http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/2009_-_AB_962_De_Leon%2C_Ammunition

There are several tutorials in the Ammo and Reloading forum.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=108907
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=229221
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=158086

vincnet11
01-14-2011, 11:26 AM
Learn to reload. I have no plans to buy any more commercial centerfire ammo, only components, and I live in Oregon where ammo is widely sold and available over the Internet. AB 962 does not affect reloading components (brass, bullets, powder, primers) http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/2009_-_AB_962_De_Leon%2C_Ammunition

There are several tutorials in the Ammo and Reloading forum.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=108907
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=229221
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=158086Lucky for you you live in Oregon, I bet its legal there to have a range in your backyard. Here I have to shoot at a public range, its difficult to find shells from the pile and its forbidden to go beyond the shooting line so any lose shells that fly beyond that point is considered lost.

My only option is to buy used shells, but I wouldn't be surprised if the price also goes up due to ab962 in effect.

Uriah02
01-14-2011, 11:26 AM
I think it will take 2-4 years to be overturned.

Centurion_D
01-14-2011, 11:28 AM
I voted other I don't think it will be overturned this year..(wishfull thinking?). I'm just not sure guys about seeing AB962 being overturned but I'm keeping my fingers and toes crossed.

bodger
01-14-2011, 11:31 AM
Like I always say, I'll believe it when I see it. And yes, I contribute to CGF in hopes that these laws will get overturned.

But what will Sacramento come up with in the meantime in the way of new laws?

You want decent gun rights, move to a free state. While they are still free.

Full Clip
01-14-2011, 11:54 AM
I voted "other" as there is no "maybe."
Will it be overturned? Maybe in a few years.

Milsurp Collector
01-14-2011, 11:55 AM
Lucky for you you live in Oregon, I bet its legal there to have a range in your backyard. Here I have to shoot at a public range, its difficult to find shells from the pile and its forbidden to go beyond the shooting line so any lose shells that fly beyond that point is considered lost.

My only option is to buy used shells, but I wouldn't be surprised if the price also goes up due to ab962 in effect.

As a matter of fact, it is legal to shoot in my backyard. ;)

You can buy brand new .45ACP brass for $13 per 100 http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/262

You can get once-fired .45ACP brass for $6 per 100 http://oncefiredbrass.com/45acpspeer.aspx

You should probably get some type of brass catcher so you can reuse your own brass http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=942827&cm_mmc=Froogle-_-Shooting%20-%20Range%20Supplies%20%26%20Equipment-_-PriceCompListing-_-942827

You can get powder and primers locally or over the Internet.

Because of the weight, it is probably cheaper to buy bullets locally rather than pay for shipping. You can also buy the equipment to cast your own bullets, which is even more economical.

weimarccw
01-14-2011, 11:59 AM
I think it will be overturned and sooner rather than later. I've been thinking about it a lot and, our rights aside for sake of discussion, the ammunition companies and those in their chain that sell to us without brick and mortar in CA, as well as those in CA stand to lose a lot of money. Even with restrictive laws, we must have a numerically large number of people who own and use handguns and that means many dollars in commerce impacted. The price logically will go up in CA and so people overall will buy less here in CA. Many will go out of state. It may not be overturned due to the right reasons, IMHO, but I think it will be overturned when the people who are loosing money get loud.

Window_Seat
01-14-2011, 12:13 PM
AB-962 will indeed be struck, but it won't happen overnight.

Erik.

thrillhouse700
01-14-2011, 1:15 PM
All other awful laws have stuck, I have a feeling this one will too. I hope not but I'm just facing reality here. I'm reading my reloading book as we speak so I can start that.

voiceofreason
01-14-2011, 1:28 PM
I dont think it will ever get over turned.

Just like the assult rifle ban. The federal ban expired what.. in 2004. and California enacted their own ban and no one has been able to get rid of it.

California has a ban on high cap magazines and no one has been able to get rid of it.

Once this thing takes affect, we are done. we wont be able to get rid of it. and then once the liberals are sure we cant get rid of it, they will start banning other ammo one by one.

I heard this a long time ago through some pretty reliable sources.

anti gun people have realized they can never get rid of our guns. So the next best solution is to impact our ammo supply. if they can chip away at our ability to obtain ammo, then eventually we will become a country with a ton of guns but no ammo/

They will start with handgun ammo ban.

And after that has been in affect for awhile, they will then create a law saying "well we have a ban on handgun ammo, but it doesnt do us any good because people just reload. So they next will go after preventing us from relaoding our own handgun ammo.

Then once that step has been accomplished, they will start working on rifle calibers.

With the final goal of eliminating all ammo from society. factory ammo and reloading ammo.

Not saying it is going to happen over night, or even in the next 10 years. but that is what they are working towards.

Allowing them to pass AB-962 was the worse thing that could have been done. it allowed them to get their foot in the door.

Sadly...

California works hard to disarm the law abiding... while working hard in every way possible to assist criminals.

wildhawker
01-14-2011, 2:37 PM
I voted "other" as there is no "maybe."
Will it be overturned? Maybe in a few years.

All other awful laws have stuck, I have a feeling this one will too. I hope not but I'm just facing reality here. I'm reading my reloading book as we speak so I can start that.

We've had a 2A right for all of six months.

"They've all stuck" ignores the massive legal sea change that is Heller and McDonald.

AB962 will not take "years" - it will almost certainly resolve this year (either by being found vague and unconstitutional, or the mail order portion struck as preempted by Federal law), with some issues presented in a cleanup bill possibly going into next.

The Geologist
01-14-2011, 6:54 PM
Yes, It's a clear violation of the constitution (Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3). CA can't regulate interstate commerce. The law is only valid for transactions within the State. Maybe the CA legislature should read the US Constitution like Congress just did. Just a thought.

http://www.house.gov/house/Constitution/Constitution.html
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/statecommerce.htm

Hogxtz
01-14-2011, 7:33 PM
We're going to beat the AW and hicap mag bans also.

Patience is more than a virtue, it's a necessity.

I LOVE YOU

jpigeon
01-14-2011, 8:00 PM
This ones easy. Yes and NO

wilit
01-14-2011, 8:23 PM
As optimistic as I like to be, I don't see this one being resolved this year.

Dutch3
01-14-2011, 8:31 PM
I see it being shelved, at least temporarily, due to being unworkable and unenforceable.

No clear definition of the subjected ammunition and no clearly defined procedure for dealers to follow.

N6ATF
01-14-2011, 9:26 PM
Yes, It's a clear violation of the constitution (Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3). CA can't regulate interstate commerce. The law is only valid for transactions within the State. Maybe the CA legislature should read the US Constitution like Congress just did. Just a thought.


They do at least once a day. It is printed on their toilet paper, after all.

infamous209
01-14-2011, 10:26 PM
I am remaining positive, but its getting hard to do. If AB 962 passes I will completely lose all hope, and will feel California is gone way too far left to recover. WildHawker im holding you to your word.

Librarian
01-14-2011, 10:43 PM
I am remaining positive, but its getting hard to do. If AB 962 passes I will completely lose all hope, and will feel California is gone way too far left to recover. WildHawker im holding you to your word.

AB 962 passed in 2009.

It's the implementation according to the law, on the specified date of Feb 1, 2011, of some of the provisions that we are griping about now.

N6ATF
01-14-2011, 10:54 PM
Maybe he meant it passing legal scrutiny. LOL

Blackhawk556
01-14-2011, 11:10 PM
i put no because i don't think it will be overturned in 2011

Beatone
01-14-2011, 11:25 PM
I say no also as I haven't heard much on the legal front. Just crickets.

wildhawker
01-14-2011, 11:29 PM
I say no also as I haven't heard much on the legal front. Just crickets.

The legal front's been active - maybe you missed the posts?

If Parker is unsuccessful, OOIDA can be refiled when the rest of AB962 goes into effect.

Beatone
01-14-2011, 11:46 PM
The legal front's been active - maybe you missed the posts?

If Parker is unsuccessful, OOIDA can be refiled when the rest of AB962 goes into effect.

Haven't missed it. Just nothing new or anything that can be reported here.

kcbrown
01-14-2011, 11:58 PM
No, it won't be overturned.

More precisely, AB962 itself may be overturned (I remain skeptical, but I've been pleasantly surprised before, surprisingly enough, and this may be another one of those times). However, the set of rules it was intended to implement will not be overturned for any reasonable length of time. If AB962 falls, the legislature will quickly craft and pass a differently-worded replacement.

AndrewMendez
01-15-2011, 12:09 AM
All this effort and hot air could be spent educating your friends who vote for people that vote for laws like this. They only way to change California, is from law abiding citizens like us, educating the "feel goods" about what is really going on. I strongly believe that even in California, people are getting sick and tired of all the liberal voting, which has done nothing but bankrupt this beautiful state.

I can see the ads now....

Kevin DeLeon's was the Author of AB962, since the bill went into affect, zero criminals have been prosecuted due to the bill, and the amount of ammunition purchased inside California has reduced 50%, however, the states of Arizona, Oregon and Nevada have reported millions of dollar in revenue from California residents.

lehn20
01-15-2011, 1:20 AM
So will I still be able to walk into a gunstore and buy a 1000rds of whatever in CA?.
Did I read something about 50rds at a time!?

I am confused.

AndrewMendez
01-15-2011, 1:27 AM
So will I still be able to walk into a gunstore and buy a 1000rds of whatever in CA?.
Did I read something about 50rds at a time!?

I am confused.

50 round per month was taken out of the bill well before it was voted on. There would be no way in hell limiting the number 1 can buy per month would have worked.

chris
01-15-2011, 7:19 AM
All this effort and hot air could be spent educating your friends who vote for people that vote for laws like this. They only way to change California, is from law abiding citizens like us, educating the "feel goods" about what is really going on. I strongly believe that even in California, people are getting sick and tired of all the liberal voting, which has done nothing but bankrupt this beautiful state.

I can see the ads now....

Kevin DeLeon's was the Author of AB962, since the bill went into affect, zero criminals have been prosecuted due to the bill, and the amount of ammunition purchased inside California has reduced 50%, however, the states of Arizona, Oregon and Nevada have reported millions of dollar in revenue from California residents.

very good post. but there is one flaw to it. the average voter in this state lacks the intellegence to vote good lawmakers. just look at the last election every state held office is held by a Democrat. and not ones that are friendly to 2A.

in short the average California voter is so stupid to vote for someone else they just vote for the guy that screws them all the time.

Citadelonline
01-15-2011, 7:47 AM
Not likely it will be overturned, especially during the current climate of anti-gun, anti-hi cap mags. If/when it does go in to effect on schedule, the probability of it being repealed will be nil.
And if people keep talking publicly about traveling to adjacent states to buy ammo, that loophole will be soon closed also.

The Shadow
01-15-2011, 10:38 AM
I watched a news piece last night regarding this issue. According to the report, the FFLs haven't received the necessary paperwork to record the sales of ammunition, and once they get it, law enforcement agencies have no intention of picking up the completed documents. The bottom line to this bastard child of a law is that it will not be enforced because it costs law enforcement money and resources, and FFLs have no current way of recording the sales. As for companies like Fed Ex or UPS making deliveries of mail order ammunition, it's yet to be seen how that will work out. But if people were smart, they'd just box up their product and ship it. Good luck getting law enforcement to investigate a violation of this law. AB 962 is as bad for law enforcement as it is for California citizens, so I see law enforcement turning a blind eye to this activity until the law is repealed.

CycloSteve
01-15-2011, 10:56 AM
While I would be pleased to see it overturned, I am not holding my breath. Yes it was poorly written, and flawed in multiple ways. Unfortunately in the current climate my vote is NO.

The requirement to give my fingerprint does not bother me as much as paying twice the price for the exact same ammo I used to be able to buy online...which was for a rifle to boot. Reloading sounds better and better everyday.

Time for FedEx and UPS to have their tracking hand-helds include a fingerprint scanner. They already ID for CA wine shipments if they are in doubt.

donw
01-15-2011, 11:50 AM
the only way to make sure that gun laws are changed/thrown out/modified/rescinded is to overhaul the state legislature and rid it of so many anti-firearms legislators.

the best and only way to beat the passing of any law is to defeat the legislators themselves.

California state legislature has no balance of power. right now it's all left-wing liberal, anti-firearms.

motorhead
01-15-2011, 11:56 AM
ever the optimist, i say yes. iirc, it's already in the crosshairs.

motorhead
01-15-2011, 11:58 AM
the only way to make sure that gun laws are changed/thrown out/modified/rescinded is to overhaul the state legislature and rid it of so many anti-firearms legislators.

the best and only way to beat the passing of any law is to defeat the legislators themselves.

California state legislature has no balance of power. right now it's all left-wing liberal, anti-firearms.
i take it you missed the last election. i'm still butthurt! the cattle will continue to vote in the same idiots. gun laws change in the courts.

mtsul
01-15-2011, 12:02 PM
The law will be overturned, partially or totally. That said, expect a cleanup bill this year.

I trust these people so Im praying it happens

N6ATF
01-15-2011, 1:58 PM
the only way to make sure that gun laws are changed/thrown out/modified/rescinded is to overhaul the state legislature and rid it of so many anti-firearms legislators.

the best and only way to beat the passing of any law is to defeat the legislators themselves.


There's one law on the books that never seems to be enforced anymore. U.S. Constitution, Article III, Section 3. It would move 2/3 of CA.gov into prison and death row for its war upon the law-abiding.

chris
01-15-2011, 3:49 PM
Yes, It's a clear violation of the constitution (Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3). CA can't regulate interstate commerce. The law is only valid for transactions within the State. Maybe the CA legislature should read the US Constitution like Congress just did. Just a thought.

http://www.house.gov/house/Constitution/Constitution.html
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/statecommerce.htm

those guys in the legislature could'nt understand the Constitution.

Sealawyer
01-15-2011, 5:32 PM
I know there are a lot of NRA homers here but I don't see anything to indicate that the NRA hasn't thrown California under the bus with the exception of a few pet projects. I am sure that from a cost-benefit analysis, it simply isn't worth it for them to expend vast amouns of legal fees here.

The only hope for this being overturned is at the SCOTUS level and that is a longshot, and if it happens, it is years away and I don't know who would bankroll such an effort.

wildhawker
01-15-2011, 5:59 PM
Sealawyer,

I'm afraid your comments make it appear you're out of the loop. If you would take some time to read up on this and related issues, you'd find your skepticism misplaced and condemnation unfounded.

-Brandon

infamous209
01-15-2011, 6:40 PM
AB 962 passed in 2009.

It's the implementation according to the law, on the specified date of Feb 1, 2011, of some of the provisions that we are griping about now.

My feelings are its not passed until it takes affect, but I will reword it as it does sound wrong. Thanks.

N6ATF
01-15-2011, 6:44 PM
those guys in the legislature could'nt understand the Constitution.

Oh, they understand it, otherwise how would they consistently violate it? If it were ignorance, they'd do the right thing 50% of the time. No, ignorance is just their act, and a attempt at a defense, in case they are ever prosecuted for their complicity in countless crimes.

taperxz
01-15-2011, 7:14 PM
AB 962 will be squashed in court due to the vagueness of the the bill as written. Even if Parker fails others will trump once interstate commerce damage has been done. To all the doubters.... get a clue! Even an anti judge would have a hard time letting this bill fly the way it was written.

REMEMBER! The legislature screwed up on this vote and tried to rectify the situation by adding on another bill to it specifying what rounds can and can't be sold! AND it failed!!

AB962 will die but watch for another more refined bill after the fact.

Librarian
01-18-2011, 1:04 PM
AB 962 has been overturned before this all could be implemented - see the sticky http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=385930