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View Full Version : Would you really be that bad off with an M44 for a SHTF gun?


TonyNorCal
08-13-2006, 5:48 PM
While there are better platforms I'd submit that an M44 would make a fine SHTF gun.

~7.62x54r is a battle rifle cartridge on par with .30-06, .308, 8mm. You're in the power range to take all North American comers...man, beast, or zombie.

~It's a solid, simple, hefty rifle. Built for a conscript army of peasants and used on the frigid Russian Steppes it has the qualities we've come to know and love in Russian weaponry...simple, reliable, durable, works.

~The M44 (bayonet) and it's two most common related cousins M38 and M91/59 (both no bayonet) is in a 'carbine length'. Sure felt recoil is increased, but it's more handy, less unwieldy than the 91/30, decent for use in enclosed spaces, and of course the muzzle flash resulting from the shorter barrel can be used to disorient attackers.:p .

~Aside from the ability to defend oneself the M44 offers to you the ability to hunt and feed yourself. In many ways it's highly suitable as a mountain gun. In a serious SHTF event I'd imagine that heading up into the mountains of Northern Cal or even Southern Oregon would be a good place to bug out. You could do a lot worse than an M44 in such an environment.

~Ammo is cheap. As cheap as it gets for centerfire. Thus you can practive extensively at the range. And you know what they say about practice. Of course, the ammo issue is a knock as well. 7.62x54r isn't commonly available everywhere. However, a good SHTF strategy probably wouldn't involve getting into extended shoot-outs. Shoot and scoot would likely be a better approach. And you could always appropriate another weapon at some point.

~And of course the M44 is affordable!

Anyway...I was cleaning out the gun closet and though to take some pics...this is one of my 5...(and I need to get some nice silk for a background and better lighting lol).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/RandomDestiny/000_0129.jpg


Watch out zombies, bayo extended!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/RandomDestiny/000_0135.jpg

The Soup Nazi
08-13-2006, 5:57 PM
Sticky Bolt=you're screwed.

VeryCoolCat
08-13-2006, 6:04 PM
The M44 is a bolt action rifle, if something bad does happen. Its too large for close quarters. M44 with a handgun okay. For trunk gun, MAYBE because of the price.

Also The same reason they abandoned the SVT40 Tokarev rifle, the cartridge and rifle are too large/bulky and the bullet is more power than needed.

If people die from overpowered 22s (223) caliber size truely doesn't matter when it comes to people as long as it has SOME power.

Frankly my SHTF gun is a shotgun. its universal usage. M44s more for somewhat long range. SKS for mid range. AR15 is the only universal for mid/somewhat long range, but 223 is too underpowered for large critters and will obliterate small critters that you would need for food and doesn't have enough OOMPH for zombies.

I use long range meaning 200-300meters. Not scoped rifle long range.

TonyNorCal
08-13-2006, 6:09 PM
Sticky bolt is commonly caused by petrified cosmoline in the chamber. A good polishing can work wonders. One can also experiment with different types of ammo. Being a bolt-operated weapon is actually a benefit in that it's more reliable and less prone to failure.

I think I said in the first line there were better choices, but that an M44 would make a fine selection.

Many people feel calibers in the .223 range are insufficient. I happen to feel that they're sufficient, but that in SHTF a .30 battle cartridge is preferable and allows for hunting. People die from being shot with .22 LR, doesn't mean you'd select it as a weapon.

Blue
08-13-2006, 6:13 PM
Sticky Bolt=you're screwed.


Put it on the ground and stomp the bolt open.

WallySparx
08-13-2006, 7:02 PM
my chief concern would be ammo availability. sure, it's cheap and available now, but just how available would it be if shtf? probably not a good one for close quarters either; but if your objective was self-preservation, you probably wouldn't be doing a whole lot of room clearing.

M. Sage
08-13-2006, 7:19 PM
Put it on the ground and stomp the bolt open.

Or slam it into a nearby solid object... bolt handle first. I don't think these guns can easily be broken (oh, how I've tried).

Regarding sticky bolt... I've shot over 1000 rounds through my 91/30 and have never needed to use anything but hand pressure to open the bolt. Of course, I've always shot brass-cased ammo, it might be different with laquered steel, but like Tony said, you'll be stocking up on ammo pre-SHTF, so just don't buy steel-cased stuff if it worries you. Or do, and shoot the crap out of it to see what, if anything it takes to avoid having the bolt stick shut.

I agree that a bolt action rifle would probably make a better survival rifle than, say, an AR in .223 or an AK or SKS (sorry, but 7.62x39 isn't THAT much more powerful than .223, and isn't great for longer ranges.)

Tony, are you posting this because you have/plan on getting a Mosin rifle and using it in the case of SHTF? If you are, just a couple of things: A; Finnish stripper clips. Smoothest-feeding clips I've used in a Mosin. B; Mojo rear sight. Fully adjustable and I think it helps with accuracy and acquisition over the standard rear sight (which I think of as a pistol sight stuck on a rifle.)

Link to the clips: http://www.johnmasen.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=J&Product_Code=MN03

Oh, you might want a couple of the ammo pouches that were designed for these rifles. Makes carrying the clips a lot easier... and the fit is better than most other pouches I've found, except maybe .308 bandoliers.

Right now my 91/30 is the best thing I've got (and what I know how to use best), so it would be my go-to in an SHTF situation.

TonyNorCal
08-13-2006, 7:27 PM
I agree with the ammo thing. That would be my chief concern also. You're far less likely to find ammo. Of course, it's also likely that any gun store people pick over would have the more common calibers taken first...so if they had any 7.62x54 it might be left;) . But yes, ammo availability would be a concern.

But if you carry say 200 rounds and just shoot defensively, when necessary, as you extricate yourself from an urban area...I think you'd be ok.

And, if you had a mountain cabin stocked with more ammo you'd likely be good to go.

Of course, if you can afford a mountain cabin you can probably afford an M-14 clone like an LRB with USGI parts...which would be my first choice.

Well, the post wasn't mean to be entirely serious...just one of those spontaneous moments...not saying use an M-44 if you have other choices...but on the other hand, I certainly wouldn't feel out of sorts with one and feel it would perform just fine.

M. Sage
08-13-2006, 7:32 PM
Of course, if you can afford a mountain cabin you can probably afford an M-14 clone like an LRB with USGI parts...which would be my first choice.

I can't afford either, so I'm stuck with a 91/30, a backpack full of ammo and other supplies, and a tent. Man, I'm gonna be so freaking tired when I get to the hills....

My interest was really piqued by your post because of the Mosin angle, and because you talked about running to the hills. That's pretty much my plan in long-term SHTF. Grab some camping gear, the Mosin and .22, the wife, some ammo, and head into the woods.

TonyNorCal
08-13-2006, 7:32 PM
MSage,

Good post.

I'm not planning to use an M44, but feel it is sufficient for the job.

Good suggestions on a few upgrades. And I agree, if you've thought it out beforehand you would have the rifle tuned and ready.

Again, in my mind ammo is the biggest limitation.

GJJ
08-13-2006, 7:37 PM
Ammo availability is a non-issue for SHTF. Buy 500 rounds. If you shoot them all...

- you will be dead
- or you will have a nice new gun collection.

Think about it.

TonyNorCal
08-13-2006, 7:40 PM
I can't afford either, so I'm stuck with a 91/30, a backpack full of ammo and other supplies, and a tent. Man, I'm gonna be so freaking tired when I get to the hills....

My interest was really piqued by your post because of the Mosin angle, and because you talked about running to the hills. That's pretty much my plan in long-term SHTF. Grab some camping gear, the Mosin and .22, the wife, some ammo, and head into the woods.

I think you could do a lot worse than a 91/30 and a tent. Most of the citizenzry has no plan and no weapons. Of course, as we all saw during Katrina you needn't worry...the government will do a splendid job of taking care of your safety and sustenance needs:rolleyes: .

Also, if you know how to use your rifle a few hundred rounds should take you a long way.

I think some people think SHTF means they're going to be in extended gun battles, Red Dawn style, with enemy paratroopers. Well, if that's the case and you're alone you're out of luck. And anyway, in such an event you'd appropriate another weapon asap.

More likely SHTF means breakdown in social order, services, protection, etc. Most thugs aren't going to press the issue if you have a rifle of any kind. And a few well placed rounds of 7.62x54 will drive the point home sufficiently.

VeryCoolCat
08-13-2006, 7:41 PM
Any bad situation where your going to have to use more than 100 rounds with a semi auto rifle. Your probably going to lose that battle.

Blue
08-13-2006, 8:45 PM
Do you know something I don't know? You do alot of SHTF posts :p

WallySparx
08-13-2006, 9:42 PM
now for those of you depending on 7.62x54r if and when shtf, will your supply case include a spray bottle of windex after shooting the corrosive stuff? :)

grammaton76
08-13-2006, 11:04 PM
Some folks figure they'll be needing thousands of rounds of ammo, personally, to survive SHTF. These people are loons.

If you've seen The Postman, you'll realize that the guy who probably had the big stockpiles of ammo was General Bethlehem. :)

Mssr. Eleganté
08-13-2006, 11:36 PM
now for those of you depending on 7.62x54r if and when shtf, will your supply case include a spray bottle of windex after shooting the corrosive stuff? :)

No Windex, but I do have a secret stash of the special corrosive ammo cleaning compound H2O.

C.G.
08-13-2006, 11:41 PM
Some folks figure they'll be needing thousands of rounds of ammo, personally, to survive SHTF. These people are loons.

If you've seen The Postman, you'll realize that the guy who probably had the big stockpiles of ammo was General Bethlehem. :)

Let me see if I am following this: to win in a SHTF situation you have to join USPS?:D

grammaton76
08-14-2006, 12:34 AM
Let me see if I am following this: to win in a SHTF situation you have to join USPS?:D

Nope. You just have to surround yourself with an army of people who worship you and will actually obey you, at which point you issue THEM most of the guns in your stockpile. At which point your personal odds of survival greatly increase. Additionally, you're in a position to influence said people, hopefully laying down some hardcore laws on your group that prevent them from turning into ye olde gang of looters.

ivanimal
08-14-2006, 12:59 AM
Nope. You just have to surround yourself with an army of people who worship you and will actually obey you, at which point you issue THEM most of the guns in your stockpile. At which point your personal odds of survival greatly increase. Additionally, you're in a position to influence said people, hopefully laying down some hardcore laws on your group that prevent them from turning into ye olde gang of looters.


Sounds a lot like Waco.

I would put any centerfire rifle in a SHTF situation, personally I like the mini 14 because I have shot mine more than any other rifle I own. The M44 is a fine weapon. I watched the Soup Nazi go through a ton of ammo from mine, he did have about 6 failed rounds. The rifle is fine, the ammo should be another issue altogether. They are a bummer to keep clean after corrosive ammo, I clean and lube mine for 3 days following a shooting session.:cool:

The Soup Nazi
08-14-2006, 7:26 AM
You'll have a nasty surprise the next time you try to load 5 rounds into your M91/30, your magazine latch is worn and it'll pop open after you fire...or you look at it wrong...

M. Sage
08-14-2006, 7:46 PM
No Windex, but I do have a secret stash of the special corrosive ammo cleaning compound H2O.

I carry a liter that special cleaner to the range with me.

Once you've shot enough surplus, you start drinking that special cleaning compound to prove how manly you are.

In other words: SHTF cleaning step one: water from your canteen. Step two: a light coat of whatever oil you have on hand (just fill the damn cleaner you got with the gun.)