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Timberland
08-13-2006, 10:59 AM
If I tape 2 10rd mags together am I creating a "hi-cap" 20rouder? Just wondering because a loaded pistol mag near a pistol is a "loaded gun"

JPglee1
08-13-2006, 11:00 AM
If I tape 2 10rd mags together am I creating a "hi-cap" 20rouder? Just wondering because a loaded pistol mag near a pistol is a "loaded gun"

NO, you're not making a hicap. The mag still needs to be removed and replaced for the next 10 rds of ammo.

Now if you joined them inline (with an adaptor or welding, whatever...) you'd have an illegal standard capacity mag.



J

-hanko
08-13-2006, 11:30 AM
If I tape 2 10rd mags together am I creating a "hi-cap" 20rouder?

Just wondering because a loaded pistol mag near a pistol is a "loaded gun"
NO. Why are you taping mags together??

Not sure about your loaded pistol statement either.

-hanko

Paul1960
08-13-2006, 11:43 AM
Just wondering because a loaded pistol mag near a pistol is a "loaded gun"

Nope the actual law is attached to not near.

Penal Code § 12031(g).

A firearm is deemed loaded when there is a live cartridge or shell in, or attached in any
manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, the firing chamber, magazine, or clip
thereof attached to the firearm. A muzzle-loading firearm is deemed loaded when it is
capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder.

Source: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2006.pdf page 35 of California Firearm Laws 2006, as published under the authority of the California Department of Justice.

The SoCal Gunner
08-13-2006, 12:41 PM
Nope the actual law is attached to not near.

Penal Code 12031(g).

A firearm is deemed loaded when there is a live cartridge or shell in, or attached in any
manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, the firing chamber, magazine, or clip
thereof attached to the firearm. A muzzle-loading firearm is deemed loaded when it is
capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder.

Source: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2006.pdf page 35 of California Firearm Laws 2006, as published under the authority of the California Department of Justice.

And then it is up to the DA to interpret the law of whether a cartridge in a magazine constitues a loaded firearm because a magazine can be deemed part of the firearm. Not sure if this is more so when a pistol possesses a magazine disconnect making the the magazine an integral part of the firearm.

ohsmily
08-13-2006, 2:20 PM
And then it is up to the DA to interpret the law of whether a cartridge in a magazine constitues a loaded firearm because a magazine can be deemed part of the firearm. Not sure if this is more so when a pistol possesses a magazine disconnect making the the magazine an integral part of the firearm.

I disagree. Read the text of the law. Yes, laws are subject to interpretation; but, no reasonable person could interpret that text to construe application to a magazine that is removed from the gun...it is not attached to the firearm.

The language regarding the magazine and clip is more applicable to rifles with fixed magazines, not pistols or rifles with removable magazines when that magazine is not inserted into the gun.

Matt C
08-13-2006, 2:22 PM
I believe there were two court cases, one where the cartridge has to be "in a position ready to fire" and another where the loaded mag was considered part of the gun. It's a risk.

Paul1960
08-13-2006, 4:22 PM
And then it is up to the DA to interpret the law of whether a cartridge in a magazine constitues a loaded firearm because a magazine can be deemed part of the firearm. Not sure if this is more so when a pistol possesses a magazine disconnect making the the magazine an integral part of the firearm.

I follow your thinking but ...

That sort of logic you could have a loaded magazine in in your dresser drawer at a hotel in Singapore and an empty gun in Los Angeles and get arrested for having a loaded firearm. Not saying that it couldn't be done but I'd own the DA and half of his county following that dismissal.

You'd have to skip that whole part of the law about a magazine with a cartridge further attached to the firearm.

Words mean things and despite the best efforts of California's district attorneys to change the word citizen into subject I'll continue to "take my chances" with a butt-ton of loaded magazines scattered from Seattle to Chicago to Charlotte to Riverside!

Basically unless you're pulling a drive-by, knocking over a stop-n-rob, or dealing drugs I would hazard a guess that you'll never have to worry about loaded or unloaded. Still I always go to the range with my magazines loaded ... but I like to live dangerously. :)

Go with what you're comfortable with but the law is pretty clear in my eyes ... attached to the firearm is "attached" "to" "the" "firearm" if they meant loaded magazines they would have said "loaded" "magazines". Attached to the firearm does include speed feeder stocks and those ready mag holders which hold a magazine to the side of a rifle's stock. I do go so far as to remove the six rounds from my .308 bolt rifle's stock sock when I transport it ... and it's not even a semi-automatic. ;)

M. Sage
08-13-2006, 4:34 PM
I follow your thinking but ...

That sort of logic you could have a loaded magazine in in your dresser drawer at a hotel in Singapore and an empty gun in Los Angeles and get arrested for having a loaded firearm. Not saying that it couldn't be done but I'd own the DA and half of his county following that dismissal.


That's dangerous thinking, applying logic when it comes to the PRK legal system.

I've lived dangerously by attaching my Mosin ammo pouches to the handle of the case containing said rifle... with ammo in the pouches. Oh, and since it won't fit into the trunk of my car, it was behind the seats (only two seats, so yeah, the front seats.)

VeryCoolCat
08-13-2006, 5:07 PM
How about a discussion about side-saddle being carry. Thats one thats "on the edge" :D

The SoCal Gunner
08-13-2006, 7:36 PM
I disagree. Read the text of the law. Yes, laws are subject to interpretation; but, no reasonable person could interpret that text to construe application to a magazine that is removed from the gun...it is not attached to the firearm.

The language regarding the magazine and clip is more applicable to rifles with fixed magazines, not pistols or rifles with removable magazines when that magazine is not inserted into the gun.

I have read the text and I feel the same way you do because the law is very clear. Still I would not like to entrust my life to the interpretation of an officer, district attorney, or a jury consisting of people who may or may not have an education let alone be able to think critically.

Now the analogy of possessing loaded magazines in different locations does not work IMO because the purpose of the law, or at least in the eyes of prosecutors and lawmakers, is to prevent citizens from having loaded magazines readily available to be fired from their firearms.

I have gone to the shooting range once with loaded magazines in the same locked case as my firearm. The RO informed me that doing so would possibly bring me a lot of trouble and I no longer do that. My loaded magazines are now locked away from the firearm.

rorschach
08-13-2006, 10:56 PM
Loaded mags are a bigtime judgement call on the part of the officers. If its in the vicinity of the firearm is goes to, it can and has been prosecuted. If a loaded mag is next to say, a revolver, or a weapon that the mag doesnt go to, or a weapon of a different caliber, I would say your in the clear, but then again, thats a judgement call on the part of the officer, who may decide to be an Adam Henry about it.