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tonantius
01-13-2011, 8:46 AM
I was reviewing the Calguns' AW flowchart and a few questions came to mind.

1) What if an AR-looking rifle was not semi-auto but rather a pump action?

2) Is an M-14 an AW? It looks like not, because it does not have a pistol grip.

3) What about a mini-14 or a 10/22?

4) So once the deadline passes, a person from another state cannot bring their ARs into CA if relocating?

Thanks

Lone_Gunman
01-13-2011, 9:10 AM
Carnivore- I think a pump action us NOT an AW. It has to be a semi auto centerfire.

Carnivore
01-13-2011, 9:12 AM
Carnivore- I think a pump action us NOT an AW. It has to be a semi auto centerfire.

DAMN!! I HATE BRAIN FARTS...you are right. DOH!:D

Decoligny
01-13-2011, 9:18 AM
1 if it is magazine feed center fire cartridge yes it would be an AW. Now if you could tool up the Mag then it wouldn't be. Tube feed like a shot gun then no it wouldn't. Semi auto though I believe you would have to have a fixed stock but not sure on that one.
2 no
3 no
4 if the lower is on the ban list, no you can't bring it in. If not then follow the flow chart to make the AR style rifle compliant.

Wrong. The key wording is A SEMIAUTOMATIC.

The only non-Semiautomatic firearm listed as an assualt weapon is any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

So, any Pump Action rifle is by definition NOT an AW.

12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall
also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to
accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action
of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine
with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length
of less than 30 inches.
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a
detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor,
forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely
encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon
without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the
barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location
outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the
capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action
of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a
detachable magazine.
(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
(b) The Legislature finds a significant public purpose in
exempting pistols that are designed expressly for use in Olympic
target shooting events. Therefore, those pistols that are sanctioned
by the International Olympic Committee and by USA Shooting, the
national governing body for international shooting competition in the
United States, and that are used for Olympic target shooting
purposes at the time the act adding this subdivision is enacted, and
that would otherwise fall within the definition of "assault weapon"
pursuant to this section are exempt, as provided in subdivision (c).
(c) "Assault weapon" does not include either of the following:
(1) Any antique firearm.
(2) Any of the following pistols, because they are consistent with
the significant public purpose expressed in subdivision (b):

MANUFACTURER MODEL CALIBER
BENELLI MP90 .22LR
BENELLI MP90 .32 S&W LONG
BENELLI MP95 .22LR
BENELLI MP95 .32 S&W LONG
HAMMERLI 280 .22LR
HAMMERLI 280 .32 S&W LONG
HAMMERLI SP20 .22LR
HAMMERLI SP20 .32 S&W LONG
PARDINI GPO .22 SHORT
PARDINI GP-SCHUMANN .22 SHORT
PARDINI HP .32 S&W LONG
PARDINI MP .32 S&W LONG
PARDINI SP .22LR
PARDINI SPE .22LR
WALTHER GSP .22LR
WALTHER GSP .32 S&W LONG
WALTHER OSP .22 SHORT
WALTHER OSP-2000 .22 SHORT

(3) The Department of Justice shall create a program that is
consistent with the purposes stated in subdivision (b) to exempt new
models of competitive pistols that would otherwise fall within the
definition of "assault weapon" pursuant to this section from being
classified as an assault weapon. The exempt competitive pistols may
be based on recommendations by USA Shooting consistent with the
regulations contained in the USA Shooting Official Rules or may be
based on the recommendation or rules of any other organization that
the department deems relevant.
(d) The following definitions shall apply under this section:
(1) "Magazine" shall mean any ammunition feeding device.
(2) "Capacity to accept more than 10 rounds" shall mean capable of
accommodating more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to
include a feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it
cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(3) "Antique firearm" means any firearm manufactured prior to
January 1, 1899.
(e) This section shall become operative January 1, 2000.

the_quark
01-13-2011, 10:58 AM
The key answer to many of these is that the rifle has to be "semi-automatic" and "centerfire" and have a "detachable magazine". Anything missing even one of those things isn't an assault weapon.

I was reviewing the Calguns' AW flowchart and a few questions came to mind.

1) What if an AR-looking rifle was not semi-auto but rather a pump action?


That would be not semi-automatic, so it wouldn't be an assault weapon.


2) Is an M-14 an AW? It looks like not, because it does not have a pistol grip.


As long as it doesn't have any of the offending features (pistol grip, flash hider, folding or collapsable stock, grenade launcher (which is is illegal anyway)), it's fine. A stock Vietnam-era M-14 wouldn't be an assault weapon.


3) What about a mini-14 or a 10/22?


Again, stock mini-14 should be fine, but if you put even a flash hider on it, it's an assault weapon. A 10/22 is fine, because it's not centerfire. However, note you can't import any large-capacity magazines for it, either.


4) So once the deadline passes, a person from another state cannot bring their ARs into CA if relocating?


You must make any rifle you bring in be California compliant. So, generally, put a bullet button on it first (so it no longer has a detachable magazine), and you can import it.

Again, though, also keep an eye out, it's illegal to import "large-capacity" (more than ten round) magazines, as well.

CHS
01-13-2011, 11:42 AM
As long as it doesn't have any of the offending features (pistol grip, flash hider, folding or collapsable stock, grenade launcher (which is is illegal anyway)), it's fine. A stock Vietnam-era M-14 wouldn't be an assault weapon.


You have to be careful with M14's/M1A's as most of them sold outside of California or made before California's AW ban were manufactured with flash hiders installed.

These M1A's and M14's are definitely AW's. You can call up Springfield and get the California Muzzle brake (AKA Navy Brake) and install it before importing one into CA.


You must make any rifle you bring in be California compliant. So, generally, put a bullet button on it first (so it no longer has a detachable magazine), and you can import it.

Again, though, also keep an eye out, it's illegal to import "large-capacity" (more than ten round) magazines, as well.

Also, just to note: You can't bullet button a larger than 10 round magazine, or the gun becomes an AW. Also, the gun can't be listed by name, otherwise it's an AW no matter how many bullet buttons you put on it.

ke6guj
01-13-2011, 11:59 AM
I was reviewing the Calguns' AW flowchart and a few questions came to mind.

1) What if an AR-looking rifle was not semi-auto but rather a pump action?the currently hosted rifle AW flowchart starts out with the assumption that it is a semi-auto centerfire rifle. the currently hosted flowchart does not really deal with pump-action firearms.

There is an newer version of the flowchart that covers ALL rifle types and would show you that it would be legal.

2) Is an M-14 an AW? It looks like not, because it does not have a pistol grip.as mentioned before, a semi-auto M14 (M1a) would be an AW if it had any evil features, and a flash hider is an evil feature. If the FH is swapped for a muzzle brake, then it is legal.

3) What about a mini-14 or a 10/22?mini-14 same as M-14, since it is a semi-auto centerfire rifle.

10/22 can have evil features since it is not a semi-auto centerfire rifle.


4) So once the deadline passes, a person from another state cannot bring their ARs into CA if relocating?

Thanksnot if it meets the definintion of an AW. If it can be rendered into a non-AW config, then it can be brought into CA.

the_quark
01-13-2011, 12:33 PM
You have to be careful with M14's/M1A's as most of them sold outside of California or made before California's AW ban were manufactured with flash hiders installed.


Sorry, demonstrating my M14 ignorance. Duh, all the M14s I've seen in California don't have any flash hiders, I guess none of 'em did! :o

bwiese
01-13-2011, 12:34 PM
I was reviewing the Calguns' AW flowchart and a few questions came to mind.

1) What if an AR-looking rifle was not semi-auto but rather a pump action?


If it is not banned by name, it would clearly be legal as it's not semiauto.

If the receiver is banned by name on the Roberti-Roos or Kasler lists, ("Colt AR15", "Bushmaster XM15", "Armalite AR10", etc.) then a pump action may be defendable BUT HIGHLY UNWISE. One should NOT attempt to possess banned-by-name AW receivers in CA; it's a battle the gunrrights front doesn't need and an expense/grief you don't need.

Note that 'manually cycled' rifle - such as an off-list AR with gas tube removed and gas port closed - would suffice. It's not really bolt-action, but it sure as hell ain't semiauto.


2) Is an M-14 an AW? It looks like not, because it does not have a pistol grip.A true as-marked USGI M14 rifle is illegal as it is a full-auto gun (even if no modified by USG to no longer be capable as such).

Clones of the M14, such as Springfield Armory's M1A, or James River Mfg's guns, etc. and which have regular rifle stocks are assault weapons only if they have a flash hider. If there is no flash hider (i.e, replaced by a muzzle brake), the gun is legal in CA.


3) What about a mini-14 or a 10/22?10/22s are rimfire. Rimfire *rifles* are exempt from AW status in CA.
(However, rimfire *pistols* are NOT exempt from CA AW laws in CA, and this is why the Ruger "Charger" is not sold in traditional form in CA (and must use a BulletButton maglock + 10rd mag).

4) So once the deadline passes, a person from another state cannot bring their ARs into CA if relocating? The deadlines have passed years ago - Roberti-Roos was 1992, SB23 "features" ban had cutoff of Dec 31 2000 (Jan 23 2001 for AR/AK guns).

If your gun is banned by name ("listed"), don't bring it in. (Or replace the receiver with an off-list one and then add further modifications like a BulletButton). If banned by feature, remove enough evil features or use a BulletButton + 10rd mag. Do NOT import any hicap (over 10 round) mags.

Carnivore
01-13-2011, 3:38 PM
Wrong. The key wording is A SEMIAUTOMATIC.

The only non-Semiautomatic firearm listed as an assualt weapon is any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

So, any Pump Action rifle is by definition NOT an AW.



Yep thanks covered that I was wrong in my second post.:kest:

bwiese
01-13-2011, 4:23 PM
So, any Pump Action rifle is by definition NOT an AW.


Let's be careful there and not go too far.

A listed (Roberti-Roos/Kasler) pump action gun is [i]likely[/] defendable as not an AW.

THIS SHOULD NOT AT ALL BE RECOMMENDED CONDUCT FOR LISTED GUNS.