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762cavalier
01-12-2011, 6:52 PM
Is it legal to cover the serial number on a revolver with a clip draw?

http://www.clipdraw.com/store/index.php?rn=395&action=show_detail

The universal clip draw covers the serial number on a Taurus revolver.

locosway
01-12-2011, 7:08 PM
No, so long as you do not remove, destroy, alter the serial number. Placing a piece of tape or a clip over the serial is perfectly legal.

greg36f
01-12-2011, 7:40 PM
No, so long as you do not remove, destroy, alter the serial number. Placing a piece of tape or a clip over the serial is perfectly legal.


This has been covered in dozens of posts here and the bolded statement simply is not that clear.

I'm sure that someone else here has the energy to cite all the laws that COULD apply here, I do not.

I personally would not do it if you were going to open carry or use this as a CCW weapon.

GrizzlyGuy
01-12-2011, 7:47 PM
This has been covered in dozens of posts here and the bolded statement simply is not that clear.

I'm sure that someone else here has the energy to cite all the laws that COULD apply here, I do not.

I personally would not do it if you were going to open carry or use this as a CCW weapon.

Here you go, 537e (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/537e.html) makes the legality of placing a piece of tape over the serial number questionable:

(a) Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes
of, conceals, or has in his or her possession any personal property
from which the manufacturer's serial number, identification number,
electronic serial number, or any other distinguishing number or
identification mark has been removed, defaced, covered, altered, or destroyed, is guilty of a public offense, punishable as follows:

locosway
01-12-2011, 7:53 PM
Here you go, 537e (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/537e.html) makes the legality of placing a piece of tape over the serial number questionable:

I find it hard to believe that they can enforce such a law. If I buy an item, such as a TV, am I not able to do as I please with it?

I see the law, but I just don't think it would hold muster on it's own, even if you cover the serial on a firearm with a piece of tape.

762cavalier
01-12-2011, 8:15 PM
That law seems to make no mention of firearms though.

ke6guj
01-12-2011, 8:19 PM
Here you go, 537e (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/537e.html) makes the legality of placing a piece of tape over the serial number questionable:and here's one for you. My parents have a POS Sony DLP TV that Sonly is basically buying back from them, (selling them a new 60" LED/LCD TV for $500). Sony doesn't want the old TV back, but we have to remove the serial number tag from the back of the TV and send it to Sony. sounds like a violation of 537e to have a TV without a serial number.

nevermind, there is an exemption for this:

(d) This section does not apply to those cases or instances where
any of the changes or alterations enumerated in subdivision (a) have
been customarily made or done as an established practice in the
ordinary and regular conduct of business, by the original
manufacturer, or by his or her duly appointed direct representative,
or under specific authorization from the original manufacturer.

locosway
01-12-2011, 8:45 PM
That law seems to make no mention of firearms though.

Personal Property.

greg36f
01-12-2011, 8:46 PM
I find it hard to believe that they can enforce such a law. If I buy an item, such as a TV, am I not able to do as I please with it?

I see the law, but I just don't think it would hold muster on it's own, even if you cover the serial on a firearm with a piece of tape.



You are probably right, but I don't want to be a test case and you probably don't want to either. You can buy a car and not cover the VIN.

I KNOW that it is not the same thing, but that argument could be made.

A law is a law and a LEO can enforce it if it is on the books and he can reasonably assume that it applies.

What's reasonable? Well, there lies the devil....

If nothing above makes sense, just ignore it....I'm rambling a bit.....:o

locosway
01-12-2011, 8:47 PM
A holstered firearm breaks that law.

SwissFluCase
01-12-2011, 8:57 PM
A holstered firearm breaks that law.

So could a Browning HP with wrap around grips, or a Smith & Wesson that has those gigantic target grips.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

762cavalier
01-12-2011, 9:01 PM
Personal Property.

(b) For purposes of this subdivision, "personal property"
includes, but is not limited to, the following:
(1) Any television, radio, recorder, phonograph, telephone, piano,
or any other musical instrument or sound equipment.
(2) Any washing machine, sewing machine, vacuum cleaner, or other
household appliance or furnishings.
(3) Any typewriter, adding machine, dictaphone, or any other
office equipment or furnishings.
(4) Any computer, printed circuit, integrated chip or panel, or
other part of a computer.
(5) Any tool or similar device, including any technical or
scientific equipment.
(6) Any bicycle, exercise equipment, or any other entertainment or
recreational equipment.
(7) Any electrical or mechanical equipment, contrivance, material,
or piece of apparatus or equipment.
(8) Any clock, watch, watch case, or watch movement.
(9) Any vehicle or vessel, or any component part thereof.

No mention of firearms like I said.

and I can't tell you how many vehicles come through my shop with parking passes blocking the VIN number

Purple K
01-12-2011, 9:12 PM
This has been covered in numerous threads. If an accessory incidentally covers the serial number, no harm, no foul. If you intentionally cover the serial number, you can get yourself in trouble

locosway
01-12-2011, 9:14 PM
This has been covered in numerous threads. If an accessory incidentally covers the serial number, no harm, no foul. If you intentionally cover the serial number, you can get yourself in trouble

If I holster my weapon with the intent to cover the serial, it's the same thing. The law makes no exceptions for any device used to cover, it only says you can't cover it.

ke6guj
01-12-2011, 9:17 PM
(b) For purposes of this subdivision, "personal property"
includes, but is not limited to, the following:
(1) Any television, radio, recorder, phonograph, telephone, piano,
or any other musical instrument or sound equipment.
(2) Any washing machine, sewing machine, vacuum cleaner, or other
household appliance or furnishings.
(3) Any typewriter, adding machine, dictaphone, or any other
office equipment or furnishings.
(4) Any computer, printed circuit, integrated chip or panel, or
other part of a computer.
(5) Any tool or similar device, including any technical or
scientific equipment.
(6) Any bicycle, exercise equipment, or any other entertainment or
recreational equipment.
(7) Any electrical or mechanical equipment, contrivance, material,
or piece of apparatus or equipment.
(8) Any clock, watch, watch case, or watch movement.
(9) Any vehicle or vessel, or any component part thereof.


"personal property" isn't a fixed definition. "not limited to" could very well include firearms.

Adehtla
01-12-2011, 9:19 PM
(b) For purposes of this subdivision, "personal property"
includes, but is not limited to, the following:

<snip!>

No mention of firearms like I said.

Um, they're covered.

Purple K
01-12-2011, 9:50 PM
Please use the search function..... Geez

locosway
01-12-2011, 9:51 PM
Please use the search function..... Geez

Maybe it's just me, but I can't find anything using the search function.

762cavalier
01-12-2011, 9:53 PM
Please use the search function..... Geez

Purple K using the search function can you please point to a thread that covers this.:rolleyes:

good luck.

Dr.Lou
01-12-2011, 9:55 PM
537e doesn't apply to firearms; the proper section is 12090, which reads:12090. Any person who changes, alters, removes or obliterates the
name of the maker, model, manufacturer's number, or other mark of
identification, including any distinguishing number or mark assigned
by the Department of Justice on any pistol, revolver, or any other
firearm, without first having secured written permission from the
department to make such change, alteration or removal shall be
punished by imprisonment in the state prison.

jamesob
01-12-2011, 9:55 PM
Here you go, 537e (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/537e.html) makes the legality of placing a piece of tape over the serial number questionable:

i know people will say that it could be argued that anything covering the number could be illegal. the intent of the word "covered" for example is, filled in with a filler or a weld over the number. alot of rifles have the numbers coverded by scope mounts or other sights.

GrizzlyGuy
01-13-2011, 7:09 AM
I find it hard to believe that they can enforce such a law. If I buy an item, such as a TV, am I not able to do as I please with it?

I see the law, but I just don't think it would hold muster on it's own, even if you cover the serial on a firearm with a piece of tape.

One of the LEA open carry memos mentions 537e and says that their officers can arrest for it. I can't remember which memo that was, seems like it was from one of the LEAs in SoCal but I'm not sure.

Flintlock Tom
01-13-2011, 7:38 AM
One of the LEA open carry memos mentions 537e and says that their officers can arrest for it. I can't remember which memo that was, seems like it was from one of the LEAs in SoCal but I'm not sure.
The San Diego District Attorney's office published a training bulletin listing 537e as applying to firearms.
SD District Attorney Bulletin (http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/carry/SD-DA-OC-Memo-2009-03.pdf)

Scroll to page 3.

GrizzlyGuy
01-13-2011, 7:49 AM
The San Diego District Attorney's office published a training bulletin listing 537e as applying to firearms.
SD District Attorney Bulletin (http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/carry/SD-DA-OC-Memo-2009-03.pdf)

Scroll to page 3.

Thanks, that's the one I was thinking of.

MindBuilder
01-13-2011, 8:22 AM
So if the VIN number of your car is normally visible through your windshield and you put a cloth cover over your entire car for protection, did you just break the law by covering the VIN number? What about when you replace the battery of a cell phone where the serial number is inside the battery compartment? When you replace the battery compartment cover are you guilty of covering the serial number? I'm not a lawyer so I could easily be wrong about all this, but it seems to me that "cover" must have a narrower than normal interpretation in the context of this law.