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View Full Version : What do they really check for a C & R license? Just criminal record?


Blaze Kenobi
01-12-2011, 7:50 AM
I was just wondering what the ATF checks people for when they want to obtain a C&R license. Do they just check your criminal record to see if you have one or are they more intrusive then that like check your financial records, state licenses, bank info, do you owe a little money to good ol uncle sam, talk to people that you know, your credit, etc? Does anybody know how far the long arm of the law goes to make you look like a bad guy or is it just a criminal record?

devilinblack
01-12-2011, 8:27 AM
All I've heard of is the standard FBI criminal history check. If they wanted a good credit score I probably wouldn't have gotten one, to be quite honest.

morrcarr67
01-12-2011, 8:44 AM
Basically if you can pass a NICS test you can get a C&R.

Blaze Kenobi
01-12-2011, 2:23 PM
Seems pretty straight forward. It is in these cases where it pays to be in good standing with the law. thanks.

Khram
01-12-2011, 2:36 PM
They want you to be a well recognized member in good standing on cgn :) Nah for reals though I know someone with some minor child support issues and not great credit but as he is able to buy guns it seemed it had no bearing on getting a C&R.

It's not like they interview your nieghbors and boss first, or do they?:biggrinjester:

Anchors
01-12-2011, 6:40 PM
For that matter what are the requirements to get an 01 FFL? (In a normal state since I know CA is finicky with what you open and where and why for business licensing).

Mssr. Eleganté
01-12-2011, 6:51 PM
For that matter what are the requirements to get an 01 FFL? (In a normal state since I know CA is finicky with what you open and where and why for business licensing).

From ATF's perspective the requirements are exactly the same to get an 01 FFL, no matter what State you are in. You must pass the NICS check and you must agree to comply with all State and local rules pertaining to operating a firearms business at your location.

It's probably less hassle to get an 01 FFL in some unincorporated areas of California with no zoning laws than it is to get one in Las Vegas. Zoning and local business permits are the biggest obstacle. The more rural the area you are in the less chance of any local zoning or permit issues.

One difference between getting an 01 FFL and an 03 FFL is that if you don't own your licensed premises as an 01 FFL, ATF wants to see proof that your landlord will allow you to operate as an FFL. They don't care about this for 03 FFLs.

Anchors
01-12-2011, 8:40 PM
From ATF's perspective the requirements are exactly the same to get an 01 FFL, no matter what State you are in. You must pass the NICS check and you must agree to comply with all State and local rules pertaining to operating a firearms business at your location.

It's probably less hassle to get an 01 FFL in some unincorporated areas of California with no zoning laws than it is to get one in Las Vegas. Zoning and local business permits are the biggest obstacle. The more rural the area you are in the less chance of any local zoning or permit issues.

One difference between getting an 01 FFL and an 03 FFL is that if you don't own your licensed premises as an 01 FFL, ATF wants to see proof that your landlord will allow you to operate as an FFL. They don't care about this for 03 FFLs.

So getting one when I move back to AZ permanently after I'm done with school haha.
Actually though, I think my dream job would be to run an importer/manufacture business.
Like Century Arms, but hopefully less crappy.
Then again Century is the biggest in the game, so that's like wanting to grow up and own Microsoft. haha.

TakeFive
01-13-2011, 8:36 AM
When I applied for mine, it appeared they only did a standard background check. The local agent did come to talk to me before they issued the license because of a prior legal case involving a firearm where I was acquitted on 4th amendment grounds.

SanPedroShooter
01-13-2011, 6:32 PM
I just got my second c&r for WA state in the mail today. I was expecting at least a phone call as two c&r's are probably not that common.
No one but someone in california would need one...
I sent them a letter explaining that i want to able to "facilitate my collection of curio and relic firearms in accordance with all state and federal laws" I also explained that some sellers have a bias against CA buyers. Not a peep did I hear, just a license in the mail, to my fathers house of course...

ke6guj
01-13-2011, 11:14 PM
I just got my second c&r for WA state in the mail today. I was expecting at least a phone call as two c&r's are probably not that common.
No one but someone in california would need one...I sent them a letter explaining that i want to able to "facilitate my collection of curio and relic firearms in accordance with all state and federal laws" I also explained that some sellers have a bias against CA buyers. Not a peep did I hear, just a license in the mail, to my fathers house of course...not sure what you mean by this. the C&R license is neutered in CA. It is in the other states where C&R Licensees can really have fun.

Anchors
01-14-2011, 12:10 AM
When I applied for mine, it appeared they only did a standard background check. The local agent did come to talk to me before they issued the license because of a prior legal case involving a firearm where I was acquitted on 4th amendment grounds.

I would love to hear more about this if it isn't too personal to share.
I love a good "gun owner wins legal case" story.
If it is, that is okay too.

not sure what you mean by this. the C&R license is neutered in CA. It is in the other states where C&R Licensees can really have fun.

He's saying no one but someone from CA would need a second, out of state C&R.

Blaze Kenobi
01-14-2011, 1:43 AM
Are there some C&R rifles and guns that are not permitted in CA or is having two 03FFL licenses better when it comes to shipping laws into California? After all you can drive them over provided that you logg them and send the registration from for all handguns right with 19dollars right?

morrcarr67
01-14-2011, 5:55 AM
I just got my second c&r for WA state in the mail today. I was expecting at least a phone call as two c&r's are probably not that common.
No one but someone in california would need one...
I sent them a letter explaining that i want to able to "facilitate my collection of curio and relic firearms in accordance with all state and federal laws" I also explained that some sellers have a bias against CA buyers. Not a peep did I hear, just a license in the mail, to my fathers house of course...

I'm glad it worked out for you. It sure has been nice having 2 C&R's. :D

SanPedroShooter
01-14-2011, 5:58 AM
not sure what you mean by this. the C&R license is neutered in CA. It is in the other states where C&R Licensees can really have fun.

Ah, i was hoping you would chime in. Because the privileges of a c&r licensee holder are so neutered, i got a second one, out of state at a different premises address. I am not the first person to do this, and the BATFE is well aware of the fact i have two permits, and what i plan to do with them (facilitate my collection etc...) There is another member who has done the same thing, i will find the thread and link it. He talked to field agent, something i admit i didnt do, and asked them all about it. He told them no, he wasnt a resident of state #2, yes he was trying to bypass CA law, and he got the green light.
So i sent in my app for a premises at my father house in WA. I happen to be a property owner in WA, and do spend a "certain" amount of time their, but the license does not have that address on it. I wrote a letter explaining my situation (per the form question about "do you have an FFL?") and got a permit.
I plan to buy C&R firearms, have them sent to premises in WA state and then either transfer them to my CA book (which is what was advised by the field agent in the other members case) ,or leave them there, depending on their legality.

Example:
I buy gun with WA state C&R. Gun is shipped to WA state premises. Upon receipt, i log it into my WA book. Later, I Log it out of my WA book, transfer it, either in person or through the mail. Its logged into my CA book (and volreg'd or whatever, any handguns). Just like any other C&R transfer.
What do you think? To clever for my own good? As i said the BATFE is well aware of what i plan to use the license for, which is lawfully collecting C&R's.

EDIT* The other member i was refering to is posted right above me, I didnt want to name names, but i was gonna post the link to his orginal thread anyway.

morrcarr67
01-14-2011, 6:08 AM
Are there some C&R rifles and guns that are not permitted in CA or is having two 03FFL licenses better when it comes to shipping laws into California? After all you can drive them over provided that you logg them and send the registration from for all handguns right with 19dollars right?

That's it.

In California if the rifle is less then 50 years old but on the C&R list it most go to an 01 FFL = Transfer fee and DROS; which could cost you $100 or more.

In California all C&R handguns most through a 01 FFL = Transfer Fees and DROS; which could cost you $100 or more.

2nd C&R in a different state = No more need to use a 01 FFL to buy C&R anything. This will save you $100's if not $1,000's of dollars.

You can buy C&R guns with magazines over 10 rounds and convert the magazines or buy 10 round replacement magazines.

You can buy a Yugo SKS with a GL on it; just be sure to replace it with a Tapco Muzzle Brake before bringing it into California.

If you know someone in a different state close by that will let you receive guns at their house I would recommend getting a 2nd C&R in a different state. (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=343730)

Jesse

morrcarr67
01-14-2011, 6:14 AM
EDIT* The other member i was refering to is posted right above me, I didnt want to name names, but i was gonna post the link to his orginal thread anyway.

:rofl2:

Go ahead and name names in this case. The more people we get this info out to the more people who can collect more C&R guns with out the need of a 01 FFL.

SanPedroShooter
01-14-2011, 6:18 AM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=343730

Here's a link to the original post. And a quote:
"I called the local BATF agent in OC. After several weeks (4 or 5) he came back to me and told me that it was legal to have 2 C&R at different locations as well as being in different states. The BATF agent in Las Vegas called me to see what was up. I told him that I was buying from Gunbroker and that some people would not ship to California and that i did not want to pay a Type 01 to receive handguns that I should be able to buy with a C&R. After a couple of days he said OK and released it to be sent out."

I see on your license you have a CA mailing address. I went one further and made mine the same as the premises address. Does anyone ask you about the difference? My goal was to avoid anything that would connect me to CA and thus scare off any sellers.

Blaze Kenobi
01-14-2011, 7:13 AM
So provided that you have the record of buying and logging it in first with the out of state 03 FFL then either driving the firearms yourself or having a person at the other state send them in the mail with your name as the seller and receiver then doing a transfer sale for $0 to your CA 03 FFL and sending them the appropriate fee for handguns only you should be legal all the way?

Wouldn't a FFL be able to sell you in their state like J&G whatever is legal there provided that you show up in person and drive it into the state thereafter? Or just seeing a California address alone drives them to not sell you what is legal in their state to you?

So it seems that BATF is ok in circumventing CA bonehead laws and issue you two so as you are legal with the Feds in the buying of things that would require a 01 FFL or you could not get transferred into CA period.

Are you still required to modify to a bullet button and not allowed to bring in a high capacity magazine say like an 11 rounder into the state?:patriot::drool5::driving::punk:

morrcarr67
01-14-2011, 7:17 AM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=343730

I see on your license you have a CA mailing address. I went one further and made mine the same as the premises address. Does anyone ask you about the difference? My goal was to avoid anything that would connect me to CA and thus scare off any sellers.

I did this because all of my CC's have my California address as the billing address. This way when I set up accounts with my NV lic i make sure they know i have different Ship To/Bill To address. So far no one has said anything. Though money has been a little tight and I've only used my NV lic twice since I got it back in October.

Jesse

ke6guj
01-14-2011, 7:41 AM
He's saying no one but someone from CA would need a second, out of state C&R.

Ah, i was hoping you would chime in. Because the privileges of a c&r licensee holder are so neutered, i got a second one, out of state at a different premises address. I am not the first person to do this, and the BATFE is well aware of the fact i have two permits, and what i plan to do with them (facilitate my collection etc...) There is another member who has done the same thing, i will find the thread and link it. He talked to field agent, something i admit i didnt do, and asked them all about it. He told them no, he wasnt a resident of state #2, yes he was trying to bypass CA law, and he got the green light.

my bad, I missed the context of what you were originally saying.

SanPedroShooter
01-14-2011, 7:44 AM
As someone with a good amount of technical experiance in matters relating, what do you think?

ke6guj
01-14-2011, 7:47 AM
I don't recall anything saying that you must be a resident of the state that you want to get that 03FFL in, and if ATF approves the app, I don't see why it wouldn't be legal to do what you want to do.

SanPedroShooter
01-14-2011, 7:47 AM
So provided that you have the record of buying and logging it in first with the out of state 03 FFL then either driving the firearms yourself or having a person at the other state send them in the mail with your name as the seller and receiver then doing a transfer sale for $0 to your CA 03 FFL and sending them the appropriate fee for handguns only you should be legal all the way?

Wouldn't a FFL be able to sell you in their state like J&G whatever is legal there provided that you show up in person and drive it into the state thereafter? Or just seeing a California address alone drives them to not sell you what is legal in their state to you?

So it seems that BATF is ok in circumventing CA bonehead laws and issue you two so as you are legal with the Feds in the buying of things that would require a 01 FFL or you could not get transferred into CA period.

Are you still required to modify to a bullet button and not allowed to bring in a high capacity magazine say like an 11 rounder into the state?:patriot::drool5::driving::punk:

First, i dont like the term "circumventing the law", but yeah it would seem so. Second, anything that it illegal in CA is not to be brought into the state, ever! I cant stress that enough. But i t gives me the chance to do the mods myself. Like on a yugo sks for example, no dealer will take the time to remove the GL, but i can order one out of state and "fix" it myself.
If you show up in person, you can use your CA C&R, some dealers may balk, but not J&G.

SanPedroShooter
01-14-2011, 7:54 AM
I did this because all of my CC's have my California address as the billing address. This way when I set up accounts with my NV lic i make sure they know i have different Ship To/Bill To address. So far no one has said anything. Though money has been a little tight and I've only used my NV lic twice since I got it back in October.

Jesse

Ha ha, i dont have the money to use mine either. I was planning on just sending a money order with my license and order. Like i said, i didnt want any CA connection. I wonder if anyone will notice the LA postmark on the letter?;)

morrcarr67
01-14-2011, 10:51 AM
Ha ha, i dont have the money to use mine either. I was planning on just sending a money order with my license and order. Like i said, i didnt want any CA connection. I wonder if anyone will notice the LA postmark on the letter?;)

If no one has said anything about my two addresses I doubt anyone will notice a postmark.

I decided to spread the word by putting a link in my signature to the 2 C&R FFL thread. That should help spread the word.