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Zebra
08-10-2006, 8:32 PM
For what it's worth, here the latest from Tom:

Hi Frank,

Thanks for keeping in touch.

The lowers are under production, and proceeding nicely.
They are all going to be billet in this production run, so the quality is spectacular.
We're expecting them in sometime between mid to late August now.
This will be determined by the actual time that they are delivered to us from the production facility, but it is really happening this time.
New production house, billet lowers, real time schedules being met.

We are much happier now.
...and so are we! :D
Frank

BoilermakerJim
08-10-2006, 9:28 PM
Are these just another AR-15 OLL or is there something special about them? Just checking. I WANT to be excited, just need to know what to be excited about. Maybe there's a thread somewhere that explains this. Thx.

bwiese
08-10-2006, 9:49 PM
MGI lowers are special in that the front magwell can be separated and exchanged. Thus it can also form a lower for other rounds like 308 with appropriate front-end magwell slid on. This lower may (or may not, can't remember) have to work with the MGI QCB upper receiver.

BoilermakerJim
08-10-2006, 9:55 PM
Sign me up for a group buy!

C.G.
08-11-2006, 1:00 AM
MGI lowers are special in that the front magwell can be separated and exchanged. Thus it can also form a lower for other rounds like 308 with appropriate front-end magwell slid on. This lower may (or may not, can't remember) have to work with the MGI QCB upper receiver. I still wonder whether they got the bugs worked out of the .308 version and as far as I know it is proprietary.

CTT2
08-11-2006, 3:24 AM
If they make a Cali legal .308 I'm getting it. I emailed them a while back and asked if they were gonna do it. I said something along the line, what if you guys made a fixed mag version. Where the interchanble mag would be a fixed piece that didn't accept a detachable mag. They said they were considering the same thing. Hope fully they went through with it. This will give a better option in semi auto .308. Currently you only have the choice of a M1A or a Cali FAL from DSA.

grammaton76
08-11-2006, 1:13 PM
I still wonder whether they got the bugs worked out of the .308 version and as far as I know it is proprietary.

Don't know anything about bugs, but it IS proprietary. Not too bad, though - you don't have to buy an upper in each caliber. You're just required to use their Quick Change Barrel uppers. Once you've done that, you can change calibers by swapping out barrels.

TheMan
08-11-2006, 5:28 PM
Don't know anything about bugs, but it IS proprietary. Not too bad, though - you don't have to buy an upper in each caliber. You're just required to use their Quick Change Barrel uppers. Once you've done that, you can change calibers by swapping out barrels.

Are you sure it will just require a barrel swap on the .308? The AK/AR being the same I could see. And I could see being able to use the same AR upper for most pistol rounds. But the .308 requires a longer magazine well, and the front pivot point for the upper would have to be moved forward as well. Right?

PanzerAce
08-11-2006, 5:54 PM
Don't know anything about bugs, but it IS proprietary. Not too bad, though - you don't have to buy an upper in each caliber. You're just required to use their Quick Change Barrel uppers. Once you've done that, you can change calibers by swapping out barrels.

I was under the impression that any caliber you chose to put a mag well in for, that you could use any upper for that round. IE, you can use any AR upper that fires 7.62x39, especially since most of these are standard length AR uppers.

grammaton76
08-11-2006, 6:15 PM
Are you sure it will just require a barrel swap on the .308? The AK/AR being the same I could see. And I could see being able to use the same AR upper for most pistol rounds. But the .308 requires a longer magazine well, and the front pivot point for the upper would have to be moved forward as well. Right?

This is why the MGI detachable magwell system is involved. The 308 magwell has the longer magazine well, and has a moved-forward front pivot. :)

The only change to the UPPER, is that you install a 308 barrel. I am not sure if they take standard AR barrels, though.

catsupsam
08-20-2006, 10:03 PM
http://www.mgimilitary.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=11

I just looked at their website, and it shows 98 units "in stock"?

Is this the right item, a default in stock number or did I miss something?

grammaton76
08-20-2006, 10:42 PM
I bet there's 98 pre-order slots available, not units in stock. If they're really in stock, they have some explaining to do for this guy (me) who pre-ordered in Feb or Mar and hasn't been called yet.

adamsreeftank
08-20-2006, 10:56 PM
I thought they were actually trying to fit a standard M14 magazine in a standard sized lower. The problem being that the magazine takes up so much room there is no tab on the bolt stop and the mag catch is in a different location. At least that is the imression I got looking at the pics that were posted a while back.

I think it is an interesting concept, but I don't want an AR in an AK caliber and I'd rather have a dedicated 308 AR. For what they are charging, I don't really get it, but that is just me.

It I wanted a multi-cailiber AR I'd be a lot more likely to get the COBB, since it can handle longer rounds like 30-06, and 338 Lapua.
http://www.cobb50.com/mcr.htm
It's also beacoup bucks.

grammaton76
08-20-2006, 11:23 PM
It I wanted a multi-cailiber AR I'd be a lot more likely to get the COBB, since it can handle longer rounds like 30-06, and 338 Lapua.

Actually, according to MGI, they could do 30'06 with a different magwell and a different barrel.

To go longer than 30'06, which is possible, they'd have to do a new magwell AND you'd have to get a new upper. But, with the MGI design they could go all the way up to 50BMG if they felt there was a market for it.

Nefarious
08-21-2006, 6:20 AM
Great, now another lower to think about buying. :D

phish
08-21-2006, 9:26 AM
What kind of magazine could be used with the '06 magwell? BAR?

Josh
08-21-2006, 12:18 PM
This is why the MGI detachable magwell system is involved. The 308 magwell has the longer magazine well, and has a moved-forward front pivot. :)

The only change to the UPPER, is that you install a 308 barrel. I am not sure if they take standard AR barrels, though.

I dont think it works like that, the barrel and upper would need to be different for a .308 since its so much larger than the .223

I dont see how the upper could strech like that.

grammaton76
08-21-2006, 12:55 PM
I dont think it works like that, the barrel and upper would need to be different for a .308 since its so much larger than the .223

I dont see how the upper could strech like that.

The barrel does change; the upper doesn't if you're using an MGI QCB upper. Which is the only upper it makes sense to use, since you can't run ANY other upper with an MGI receiver, if you use a magwell other than 223. If you're using a 223 magwell, any upper is supposed to fit.

According to them, you would need a different QCB upper for certain longer cartridges, but they designed the basic model to accomodate 308.

speshu_ed
08-21-2006, 9:14 PM
The barrel does change; the upper doesn't if you're using an MGI QCB upper. Which is the only upper it makes sense to use, since you can't run ANY other upper with an MGI receiver, if you use a magwell other than 223. If you're using a 223 magwell, any upper is supposed to fit.

According to them, you would need a different QCB upper for certain longer cartridges, but they designed the basic model to accomodate 308.


As far as I know, the locations of the pivot/takedown pins do not move for the 5.56/7.62x39/7.62 applications. However, when using a "standard" AR upper, mods (similar to what needs to be done to uppers with the AR47) need to be done - ie, widening the upper directly above the magwell and corresponding cuts in the bolt carrier to accept the wider AK/M-14 magazines. The ejection port will also have to be widened. These are all modifications already done to the MGI QCB, so you can be assured of compatibility with current applications. The modified carriers can also be purchased a la carte from MGI.

Technically, you could have multiple uppers (one for each application) with the corresponding barrel, modified upper, modified bolt carrier, and bolt. Of course, this defeats the whole purpose of the MGI "modular" concept. ;)

Of course, I could be mistaken, but this is what I understood from my conversations with twl. If he's around, maybe he can clarify.

edited to add: The 7.62 barrel is proprietary, in the sense that it uses an AR15 barrel extension, rather than one from an AR10. While "backwards compatibility" is not a primary objective of the system, it's nice to know that with a few mods, it's still compatible with a number of AR15 parts/accessories.

Josh
08-22-2006, 12:50 AM
The barrel does change; the upper doesn't if you're using an MGI QCB upper. Which is the only upper it makes sense to use, since you can't run ANY other upper with an MGI receiver, if you use a magwell other than 223. If you're using a 223 magwell, any upper is supposed to fit.

According to them, you would need a different QCB upper for certain longer cartridges, but they designed the basic model to accomodate 308.

When I read your previous post it sounded like you said one upper could accomodate all of the cartdriges. I know the barrel changes and it uses standard AR barrel extensions so thatyou can stick in any AR barrel.


I dont see how the upper could accomodate the .308 unless they used some mag design where it angled the rounds to fit. And even then its not going to work well as there would be issues with feeding. Longer mag well means the take down pin is farther from the rear and the upper dosent accomodate that change.

grammaton76
08-22-2006, 2:04 AM
When I read your previous post it sounded like you said one upper could accomodate all of the cartdriges. I know the barrel changes and it uses standard AR barrel extensions so thatyou can stick in any AR barrel.

ALL the cartridges, no - however, according to them, the MGI quick change upper WILL accomodate up to 308.

I dont see how the upper could accomodate the .308 unless they used some mag design where it angled the rounds to fit. And even then its not going to work well as there would be issues with feeding. Longer mag well means the take down pin is farther from the rear and the upper dosent accomodate that change.

Take a look at this - well, actually click it, as I discovered the res on that image is insane and it skewed the rest of the page when I had it inlined. :)

http://www.mgimilitary.com/images/000_0190.JPG

you'll see how it works. That mag on the right looks to me like a standard M14/M1A magazine, which is what I'm pretty sure I remember reading that they'll be using, with the same upper. If you search on Google, you'll come up with some mentions (on here) of the 308.

I'm also going off of a fairly lengthy conversation I had with the MGI folks when I placed my (back)order in Feb or Mar or so, where the dude stated that it definitely will handle 308 using the same upper.

If you're still dubious, I recommend calling up MGI yourself and getting your questions answered. I'm not their sales rep, nor do I have one in hand (yet), but I do know what they told me.

Josh
08-22-2006, 2:16 AM
ALL the cartridges, no - however, according to them, the MGI quick change upper WILL accomodate up to 308.



Take a look at this - well, actually click it, as I discovered the res on that image is insane and it skewed the rest of the page when I had it inlined. :)

http://www.mgimilitary.com/images/000_0190.JPG

you'll see how it works. That mag on the right looks to me like a standard M14/M1A magazine, which is what I'm pretty sure I remember reading that they'll be using, with the same upper. If you search on Google, you'll come up with some mentions (on here) of the 308.

I'm also going off of a fairly lengthy conversation I had with the MGI folks when I placed my (back)order in Feb or Mar or so, where the dude stated that it definitely will handle 308 using the same upper.

If you're still dubious, I recommend calling up MGI yourself and getting your questions answered. I'm not their sales rep, nor do I have one in hand (yet), but I do know what they told me.

All I can say is SUCK IT IN!!! cause its going to be a tight fit. :)

Lets hope it works, but im really interested a .45acp from them.

TheMan
08-22-2006, 8:23 AM
you'll see how it works. That mag on the right looks to me like a standard M14/M1A magazine, which is what I'm pretty sure I remember reading that they'll be using, with the same upper. If you search on Google, you'll come up with some mentions (on here) of the 308.


Grammatons earlier reply was confusing, as he stated they moved the forward pivot point on the .308 magwell, but you could still use the same upper. This was confusing, and seems physically impossible. You can't use the same upper if you move the pivot points around.

I found a post on arfcom that clarified it a little bit. It sounds like they don't move the pivot point forward to accept the larger mags. They got rid of the slot for the bolt hold open. So instead of making space at the front of the magwell, they made more space at the rear. The description still wasn't completely clear. Maybe it was intentionally vague since they are still working on it?

TheMan
08-22-2006, 8:25 AM
All I can say is SUCK IT IN!!! cause its going to be a tight fit. :)

Lets hope it works, but im really interested a .45acp from them.

I'd like one of those as well. The AR45 looks like another interesting option for this as well.

C.G.
08-22-2006, 11:09 AM
Grammatons earlier reply was confusing, as he stated they moved the forward pivot point on the .308 magwell, but you could still use the same upper. This was confusing, and seems physically impossible. You can't use the same upper if you move the pivot points around.

I found a post on arfcom that clarified it a little bit. It sounds like they don't move the pivot point forward to accept the larger mags. They got rid of the slot for the bolt hold open. So instead of making space at the front of the magwell, they made more space at the rear. The description still wasn't completely clear. Maybe it was intentionally vague since they are still working on it?

Hence my earlier reply questioning whether they got the bugs worked out of the .308.

JPN6336
08-22-2006, 11:58 AM
The picture linked above looks as though by removing the space where the magazine release normally is, they're able to start the M14 mag well further back. I still don't completely understand it but this is the email I got from them on the subject:

"All of our magwells are currently based on the AR15 platform. The QCB is also based on the AR15 upper. We have designed a bolt for the .308 to be used in this platform and are currently undergoing long term studies on it to make sure that it will hold up over the long term."

C123K_LoadMaster
08-22-2006, 5:46 PM
They may be able to stuff a .308 (7.62 x 51mm) cartridge into their design, but I doubt it will be able to stand up to extended use. There is a reason why all the current manufacturers use a larger platform for the .308 than they do for the .223.

Here are comparisons between a Colt .223 and a Stoner SR-25 .308.

http://www.fototime.com/A7AE991EC8A3B31/orig.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/FFBC76E10EC9970/orig.jpg

Zebra
08-25-2006, 6:49 PM
Here is the latest and greatest from Tom. Sounds like it is really going to happen this time, although the .308 option will be a leap of faith. That is the very last lower I want. Really. No more. Honestly.
O.K., maybe one more AK... :D


Yes, we're all very excited and happy now that things are starting to move like we wanted.
I talked to the production chief yesterday, and he said everything is on schedule, and that we should be beginning to ship units by the end of next week.

The MGI webstore is still under construction, and the numbers appearing in the "units in stock" counter are not operating, and are meaningless. We don't have any units in stock until we get this production run in next week.

The .308 is coming along, and it's been undergoing some firing testing.
We've run into some things we had to change a little bit, to help the package hold up under the stress of the 308. That's the way things go in R&D projects, you know.
We will have to give this package long term testing to ensure that it is as safe and reliable, and long lasting as we want it to be. So, I think it will be a while before we finally release it to the public. There is still some small chance that we may decide to not release it, if we can't get the long term testing to come out like we want it to. If we get a parts breakage issue that we can't solve, then that could be a project killer. Optimistically however, I haven't seen anything that Mack can't solve yet, so I feel pretty good about it.

Thanks,
Tom


Dunno exactly why, (can't seem to convince the wife of that either) but I am excited about that!

Frank