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View Full Version : Does the CCR really mean anything?


tenpercentfirearms
08-10-2006, 11:29 AM
Our local police sergeant was just in here and he is always challenging my thinking on the law. So he says that CCR is nothing more than the AG's "opinion" and that it really doesn't mean anything as far as prosecuting someone on the penal code. What this sergeant is really saying is it is up to the individual DAs and officers to really make their own call on what a "pistol grip" or "detachable magazine" is.

Now keep in mind if you are in a liberal county, this could be bad and then the CCR would serve as your protection. Your lawyer would bring up CCR and say, "Hey this is what the AG thinks it means, and I complied with that." However, in the end, this sergeant is under the impression unless it is in the Penal Code, it doesn't mean a damn thing to him.

What do you guys think?

Ten Rounder
08-10-2006, 12:04 PM
. What this sergeant is really saying is it is up to the individual DAs and officers to really make their own call

This is was I believe too. My Sherrif knows about OLLs and if I am not arrested how is the DA involved? No arrest, no case, no DA.

It all begins with educating our LEOs on what "IS" is.

spunk2
08-10-2006, 12:41 PM
I thought that was illegal for officers and DA's to just invent the law. Thats why we have a legislative body. And one person creating policy (so that everyone is subject to the same law).

Major Miner II
08-10-2006, 1:12 PM
I thought that was illegal for officers and DA's to just invent the law. Thats why we have a legislative body. And one person creating policy (so that everyone is subject to the same law). The CCR is the executive branch's understanding of the law, and how the law is to be enforced.

You can't just have people making things up as they go along, so this is basically departmental policy for each of the executive departments.

bwiese
08-10-2006, 1:20 PM
Wes,

What you were told is simply more cop idiocy. The very fact that Harrott mentioned the Calif Code of Regulation as the final arbiter of whether a gun/receiver was a 'series' gun indeed means it has force. Regulatory code fills in and shapes Penal Code.

Calif Code of Regulations is regulatory law. And we have all sorts of bodies of law - Penal Code, Welfare and Institutions Code, Vehicle Code, etc. Since Penal Code doesn't cover traffic, I guess I can drive thru Taft at 100mph and your cop sgt won't light me up.

Regulatory code fills in gaps where the statutory law has openings for technical definitions and administrative details usu best not left to lawmakers. [But when regulatory agencies go too far off the farm, they are considered making 'underground law' with no statutory support.]

Relevant to our issues, DOJ can define or redefine various items referred to in the actualy statutory law. Statutory law in fact gives DOJ various - but limited - regulatory powers in the field of assault weapons. (It is not blanket authority.) However the DOJ could not redefine the generic definition of assault weapon itself in 12276.1 as that was defined by legislature (which is why they are trying to manipulate regulatory definitions instead). If the regulatory change has unforseen or stealth side effects not supported by statute - transitioning legal guns into AW - then the regulation can be attacked.

We are fortunate that we deal with these regulations in a regular court. Sometimes - esp Fed Gov't - regulatory bodies have their own courts (EEOC, Tax Court, etc.) with their own administrative law judges and if you have a real beef with agency you have to go thru their courts first (but appeals into a regular court)...

M. Sage
08-10-2006, 8:14 PM
I thought that was illegal for officers and DA's to just invent the law. Thats why we have a legislative body. And one person creating policy (so that everyone is subject to the same law).

No more illegal than the DOJ inventing it. They're all employed in the same branch.

PIRATE14
08-11-2006, 11:05 AM
There is some sense in what the COP is stating, however you've got to toss in all asspects....

You've got to be charged w/ some type of PC, while regulatory code might back this up or lead to being charged via PC.

Ultimately it's the DA that must try and prove you're guilty of PC violations.

Traffic codes are PC depends on the city or location.

anothergunnut
08-12-2006, 8:37 AM
But regulations, if they are outside the scope of the enabling legislation, can and do get thrown out by the courts. And the courts are the final answer as in the Herrott decision.