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Arondos
01-10-2011, 2:54 PM
My son screwed up a while back. End result he is looking at a misdemeanor but doing house arrest. I called the Stanislaus county sheriff's office and was told that my alternatives regarding my guns are.

A. All of my weapons must be locked up in a safe. I specifically asked about a footlocker which can be locked and only I have the key to it and was told this is unacceptable. I have a safe but it is not large enough to hold a long gun (garand). Was waiting till I move to buy a large safe because I really don't have room for it currently.

B. He doesn't have to live here

C. Get rid of the guns (I don't have family in the area and even to give them to someone for storage technically it is for longer than 30 days so I don't think that is legal.)

So bottom line can the sheriff's office legally restrict my second amendment rights when I have done nothing wrong? If they can where the heck is the law permitting this?

taperxz
01-10-2011, 3:03 PM
My son screwed up a while back. End result he is looking at a misdemeanor but doing house arrest. I called the Stanislaus county sheriff's office and was told that my alternatives regarding my guns are.

A. All of my weapons must be locked up in a safe. I specifically asked about a footlocker which can be locked and only I have the key to it and was told this is unacceptable. I have a safe but it is not large enough to hold a long gun (garand). Was waiting till I move to buy a large safe because I really don't have room for it currently.

B. He doesn't have to live here

C. Get rid of the guns (I don't have family in the area and even to give them to someone for storage technically it is for longer than 30 days so I don't think that is legal.)

So bottom line can the sheriff's office legally restrict my second amendment rights when I have done nothing wrong? If they can where the heck is the law permitting this?

I would have to disagree with the sheriffs dept. on the foot locker!! I think you would be good to go and perhaps keep that locker in your room with a locked door. Hope others will chime in here.

Munk
01-10-2011, 3:16 PM
I would have to disagree with the sheriffs dept. on the foot locker!! I think you would be good to go and perhaps keep that locker in your room with a locked door. Hope others will chime in here.

I bought this StackOn 8 gun cabinet when I purchased my first two rifles. It's CA DOJ approved and was about $100.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Stack-On-8-Gun-Security-Cabinet/11071333

The safe came 3 months later so I store ammo in it now.

A regular stackon cabinet is less secure than a normal footlocker.

The law requires it to be inaccesssible to the person. That means if they're on the property where the person lives, they have to be in some place locked away from him where he doesn't have the key or combo.

As the man said above, the sheriff is mistaken about not being able to use the footlocker.

mej16489
01-10-2011, 3:18 PM
I'd start at the very beginning - what are the legal terms of the house arrest?

dantodd
01-10-2011, 3:29 PM
The government is restricting your son's access to firearms. You are accepting limits on how you store them by permitting your son to live with you. Presumably your son was afforded all due process which its what have the state the right to remove some if his rights.

whoever is supervising his detention will (and should, imo) seer to the doj for what safe is acceptable.

Buck up and spend the $100.

taperxz
01-10-2011, 3:32 PM
I'd start at the very beginning - what are the legal terms of the house arrest?

It doesn't matter. If the terms of house arrest are not to have firearms accessible then thats it. OP, locked up in your room and in a foot locker NOT accessible to him is good to go. He can not have a key or knowledge of any combo!!

taperxz
01-10-2011, 3:37 PM
The government is restricting your son's access to firearms. You are accepting limits on how you store them by permitting your son to live with you. Presumably your son was afforded all due process which its what have the state the right to remove some if his rights.

whoever is supervising his detention will (and should, imo) seer to the doj for what safe is acceptable.

Buck up and spend the $100.

You know i checked that site for a cheap lock up and they are always out of stock! I think they do that so you will buy the more expensive one!

For the OP, are you dealing with a kid or an adult? If its a kid you are liable for him getting access and doing something. Better the cheap safe. If an adult are you worried he would take it?

Oceanbob
01-10-2011, 3:43 PM
If so, store the Garand unloaded in the trunk of your car. (in a locked gun case to keep it clean).

Decoligny
01-10-2011, 3:45 PM
I bought this StackOn 8 gun cabinet when I purchased my first two rifles. It's CA DOJ approved and was about $100.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Stack-On-8-Gun-Security-Cabinet/11071333

The safe came 3 months later so I store ammo in it now.

Looks like I could probably pick that cheap lock with a safety pin or a paperclip. :rolleyes:

dantodd
01-10-2011, 3:52 PM
My local gun store always has stack on lockers in stock.

taperxz
01-10-2011, 3:54 PM
Is it the location on EC real? in your location?

Curtis
01-10-2011, 4:00 PM
I agree with others that footlocker would be fine. You could also buy a hard case for the rifle and lock it up. I would use a quality combo vs. key lock....wouldn't want anyone taking the key in my sleep.

Good luck! I hope you son keeps his nose clean.

Arondos
01-10-2011, 4:13 PM
He had been 18 for about 3 months so he's an adult. College student with no job. If I thought 30 days in county would accomplish anything other than introducing him to a bunch of people and knowledge he doesn't need to have I would just let him serve the time.

Going to cost me a chunk but I would rather keep him out of the county jail. He's got no record other than one night of him and a buddy deciding to get stupid with a high school prank.

The terms EXACTLY as on the paperwork.

Electronic monitoring program inmate agreement, rules and regulations

I agree that all terms, rules and regulations listed below are not just limited to myself and apply to all persons living in the household

(going to paraphrase the non weapons ones)
1. Consent to search without probable cause, prisoner's consent, or search warrant

2. No drugs other than those prescribed by a physician. Subject to testing if requested

3. I agree not to own, control, or possess any firearms, ammunition, or other weapons such as knives, BB guns, air soft weapons, paintball guns, collectable weapons of any kind, or keep any pets i.e. dogs at my place of confinement, unless approved by the jail alternative staff.

4. May not live with any dirt bags

5. Not allowed to have visitors except for immediate family.

That is what he has to sign.

Now they want me to sign

Cohabitant agreement permission to search
I understand that (name) (DOB) has applied for the Stanislaus County Sheriff's Electronic Monitoring Program. If accepted the above named applicant will be living at (address)

I understand, as an adult 18 or older, by signing below that my person and property at the above address is subject to search at any time of day or night without the requirement of probable cause, consent, or search warrant by jail Alternative staff or by any duly authorized peace officer of the state of California during their participation on the program. I agree to allow access to all and any locked door, safe, cabinet, or other locked items at the request of the jail alternative staff.

I also understand that the failure to allow entry into my home or any locked area of my home when requested by jail alternative staff or duly authorized peace officer will result in the person being removed from the electronic monitoring program and returned to standard incarceration.

They can come in any time, go through anything they want whether it is his or mine. Really making me wonder how cheap I could just rent him a place for 2 months.

And I have a house in ESCROW with a closing approaching so I may potentially be moving during this.

Insanity is hereditary. You get it from your children! ARGHHHHH!

wash
01-10-2011, 4:23 PM
I think the more pressing concern is the sale of the house.

What happens when you move?

You can always get a mini storage for your guns

taperxz
01-10-2011, 4:34 PM
If you sign that you have waived your rights. I would talk to an attorney about what is real and what isn't. If you sign then these are your rights you are giving up. 30 days will go fast you know! As far as the scumbags in jail? Don't worry, there are just as many on the streets.

cmichini
01-10-2011, 4:37 PM
If you can get your footlocker approved will the garand fit in there when field stripped?
Will the action fit (buttstock is a gun part and is just a club).

If you can get the OK to use the locker, and the business of your M1 fits, it may work out without you having to buy a new safe too soon.

zenmastar
01-10-2011, 4:44 PM
No record and a high school prank does not land one in the county jail. Get a better lawyer.

wash
01-10-2011, 4:51 PM
He isn't allowed to live with animals, that sounds like his prank had a living victim. Since he's not a minor that could easily land him in county.

If the DA gives a favorable plea bargain on a case involving animals, I'm sure the SPCA and PETA will be all over their ***.

sevensix2x51
01-10-2011, 4:51 PM
aw man, if you were down south i could hold onto it for you. maybe one of our upstanding bay area 03ffl's has a place of honor for it, for a short time. just write up an agreement, and they can enter it into their bound book. then when you are able to get it back, the 03 can just dispose of it back to you...

good luck, here's hoping for the best. :)

you might post a plea in the c&r/blackpowder section if this is agreeable to you. :shrug:

HowardW56
01-10-2011, 4:52 PM
I would let him do the 30 days. If it is a petty crime and he has no priors he'll end up on the farm / minimum security, or on an inmate crew (kitchen, gounds maintainance, etc.).

Unless he is headed in a bad direction in life, he would just keep to himself and do his time...

taperxz
01-10-2011, 4:55 PM
Remember this also, 30 days might only be 21 for good behavior

wash
01-10-2011, 5:02 PM
I'm guessing that the house arrest is longer than 30 days...

On the other hand, if a garand is the only thing that won't fit, you could "sell" it to a neighbor or someone else you trust, cash and carry. Once the house arrest is over, "buy" it back.

GrizzlyGuy
01-10-2011, 5:05 PM
The Garand is a 50+ year old long gun, so it can be transferred to any non-prohibited CA resident without any paperwork required. Give it to a trusted friend then get it back from them after the house arrest ends. The restrictions on loan durations don't apply since you are actually transferring ownership of the gun.

ETA: See above, Wash beat me to it.

ElCUBANO
01-10-2011, 5:15 PM
Check with the Sheriffs Office as to what the conditions of their warrantless search are. For probation we can only search the probationer's room and the common areas of the house. The parents room and or roommates room not in their control are off limits.

Arondos
01-10-2011, 5:43 PM
He isn't allowed to live with animals, that sounds like his prank had a living victim. Since he's not a minor that could easily land him in county.

If the DA gives a favorable plea bargain on a case involving animals, I'm sure the SPCA and PETA will be all over their ***.

No there were no animals harmed in the committing of the offense.

Reader's digest short version.

He and a buddy pulled the I am going over to the buddies place and his buddy says he is coming over here. They went to Nexus and played games. They were both seniors at Enoch.

Sometime during the night lack of sleep impaired their judgment, they just plain got stupid, or something. Neither had any drugs or alcohol in their system so it wasn't that.

They decided to go to Johansen high school and get in the press box. Why? I don't know, hell I don't think they even really know. To do some dumb stunt like turn on the field lights or something.

They did damage in excess of $400 making it a felony vandalism (mainly labor cost for the repairs).

The rest is pieced together from them and the discovery. They set off a silent alarm. Modesto PD responded. No lights, no sirens. My son saw a flashlight on the field and they decided to get out of there.

They went back over the fence, got in the truck. My son was the passenger. When they went to leave LEO said his friend tried to run over the LEO. 25 rounds later from three different cops.

He was initially charged with attempted burglary, and felony vandalism. Ended up with just a misdemeanor vandalism.

He didn't sue the city, or try to make a quick buck because he screwed up and I would have had ripped him a new one if he tried.

The plea bargain was accepted by him on a day I was not present because I had to work. He already did 100 hours of community service. He paid for his half of the damages, I refused to pay one dime of it. Wiped out his graduation presents. There is no way he can pay for the monitoring.

Personally after watching the deals the DA cuts with guys on multiple drug charges with previous felonies etc. I am of the opinion about all our legal system is interested in is sucking money from those who have the ability to pay.

Side note on Modesto and shooting
(out of 25 only 12 hit the vehicle and the LEO in front I can account for seven of his 8. the other two fired 8 and 9 and between them I can only account for three rounds. IMO they were either way to far away or they have got to be some terrible shots to miss a full size pickup)

I am not blaming the LEO that said it was an attempted hit and run. Dark, windy, raining. He made a quick decision. If he thought his life was in danger I have ZERO problems with him defending himself.

uyoga
01-10-2011, 6:10 PM
I sure do hope he learns from this. He sure owes you a lot. Good Luck.

SVT-40
01-10-2011, 6:18 PM
I am not blaming the LEO that said it was an attempted hit and run. Dark, windy, raining. He made a quick decision. If he thought his life was in danger I have ZERO problems with him defending himself.

"The other two LEO's who from what I can see in the paperwork I have were never in any danger fired 15 rounds at a truck that wasn't moving towards them and only managed to hit with 3.

Contagious gunfire is what I think. Bottom line is if I took any of the 15 shots they did at a fleeing vehicle I would more than likely be going to jail. But that is just my opinion. "




LEO's are allowed to use deadly force when another (LEO or not) is in danger of GBI or death.

So the two other LEO's would be justified in shooting at a truck which was trying to run down another officer.




I hope your son has decided to write the driver out of his life....




In addition to the electronic monitoring what are the terms and length of his probation? As they most likely also have terms which would include firearms prohibition as well as search conditions.

OleCuss
01-10-2011, 6:54 PM
I've got some concerns about that shooting.

Not the fact that the shooting occurred, but with the idea that there were 13 rounds that went only God knows where.

Maybe it was all wise shooting and done with reasonable caution and proficiency - but I've got some concern about that.

NightOwl
01-10-2011, 7:01 PM
So bottom line can the sheriff's office legally restrict my second amendment rights when I have done nothing wrong? If they can where the heck is the law permitting this?

The Sheriffs Dept. isn't restricting your rights, you are, by agreeing to house someone currently under house arrest. You're not being forced to house him, I presume, and he could spend the time in a county facility or elsewhere? Then it's your choice to restrict your rights, not theirs. They merely present the standards for housing an inmate, you may agree to comply, or they may house him elsewhere.

A difference would be saying that you had to secure your guns in a safe regardless of the dispensation of your son. That would be the Sheriffs Dept. restricting your rights.

Paul S
01-10-2011, 11:33 PM
The Sheriffs Dept. isn't restricting your rights, you are, by agreeing to house someone currently under house arrest. You're not being forced to house him, I presume, and he could spend the time in a county facility or elsewhere? Then it's your choice to restrict your rights, not theirs. They merely present the standards for housing an inmate, you may agree to comply, or they may house him elsewhere.

A difference would be saying that you had to secure your guns in a safe regardless of the dispensation of your son. That would be the Sheriffs Dept. restricting your rights.

Spot on.

The kid is getting a major break being put on house arrest. And your crabbing about the rules?

The solutions seems simple to me...let the lad do time and refuse to allow your residence to be used for house arrest. Otherwise...if this is of great importance to you...follow the rules.

The advice that you were given that a lockable foot locker should be good to go is simply bad advice. The S.O. told you. get a safe. Seems simple enough
to me. Of course if you can find a friend to keep the weapons temporarily that is your other option.

I know the situation is distressing....but this is one of those situations ...rules are rules...you're just going to have to go with it or say no.