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View Full Version : Would this fly for now?


mr2.0
08-10-2006, 12:53 AM
I had an extra PG so I decided to hack it up to make the spring retainer bracket, would this be legal to use with detachable mag?
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c194/nguyejp1/t2.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c194/nguyejp1/t1.jpg

socalguns
08-10-2006, 1:18 AM
Not unless you wanna go to jail for assault :p seriously though, if it cannot accomodate a PSG, its not a PG anymore, so you can use it as SRB with your DM. YAY!!!!!

mr2.0
08-10-2006, 1:29 AM
Thanks, I'm heading to the range tomorrow to continue breakin the barrel, top load was a hassle for me b/c my rifle is too damn heavy at 14lbs.

tenpercentfirearms
08-10-2006, 6:54 AM
I still think it is a gray area, but I am most likely biased. The no "pistol style grasp" makes logical sense to me, but we are talking about the DOJ and they defy logic.

Sugarfoot47
08-10-2006, 8:49 AM
It has that "capacity to accept" a regular pistol grip.

ohsmily
08-10-2006, 9:11 AM
It has that "capacity to accept" a regular pistol grip.

HUH? Where does the law mention banning something that has the "capacity to accept a pistol grip?" or recognizes that as an "evil feature"...

VeryCoolCat
08-10-2006, 9:18 AM
I read the law about what the doj defines as a pistol grip.

The bit about the "wedge" i'm figuring is the flag of skin between the thumb and pointer finger.

As long as you cannot grip your thumb around something (not just your other 3 fingers) then it does not constitute as a "pistol grip" as you can't get a "grip" on it.

So I believe there are a few home made SRBs that are still "gripable" but you don't have to take my word for it.

I believe a good test could be... if you can hold the rifle in one hand (doesn't have to be pointing at anything) like you would a handgun.... without putting a finger on the trigger It wouldn't constitute as being "able to grip"

Thats an argument I would use it court or the prosecution would in the reverse. Though even as I say this someones reading it and saying their right and I'm wrong.... I really don't care. Its your hearing :P

five.five-six
08-10-2006, 9:24 AM
Thanks, I'm heading to the range tomorrow to continue breakin the barrel, top load was a hassle for me b/c my rifle is too damn heavy at 14lbs.


wait a seccond... if you are breaking in the barrel arn't you cracking it open to clean the barrel at least every 5 rounds?

Jicko
08-10-2006, 9:39 AM
"Gripable"?? A lower receiver by itself is "gripable"!!!!

"Pistol Grip" tho... when, where have you ever seen a pistol, that all you can "grip" is with your thumb and trigger finger!?


I read the law about what the doj defines as a pistol grip.

The bit about the "wedge" i'm figuring is the flag of skin between the thumb and pointer finger.

As long as you cannot grip your thumb around something (not just your other 3 fingers) then it does not constitute as a "pistol grip" as you can't get a "grip" on it.

So I believe there are a few home made SRBs that are still "gripable" but you don't have to take my word for it.

I believe a good test could be... if you can hold the rifle in one hand (doesn't have to be pointing at anything) like you would a handgun.... without putting a finger on the trigger It wouldn't constitute as being "able to grip"

Thats an argument I would use it court or the prosecution would in the reverse. Though even as I say this someones reading it and saying their right and I'm wrong.... I really don't care. Its your hearing :P

Sugarfoot47
08-10-2006, 9:42 AM
Relax ohsmily, I was just being a sarcastic SOB. But like tenpercent points out, you mix DOJ with logic and it still doesn't seem to jell.

ohsmily
08-10-2006, 12:29 PM
Relax ohsmily, I was just being a sarcastic SOB. But like tenpercent points out, you mix DOJ with logic and it still doesn't seem to jell.

Ok, gotcha.

VeryCoolCat
08-10-2006, 12:32 PM
"Gripable"?? A lower receiver by itself is "gripable"!!!!

"Pistol Grip" tho... when, where have you ever seen a pistol, that all you can "grip" is with your thumb and trigger finger!?


Thats how I read the law. The bit about the wedge I believe is to mean something you can GRIP between your thumb and pointer to keep a "GRIP" on it.

CALI-gula
08-10-2006, 4:11 PM
It has that "capacity to accept" a regular pistol grip.

That is not as far fetched as you think - those EXACT words were used to first go after people that bought the grip-less Robinson Armament's M96, then the DOJ under advisement from one of the DA's and Lockyer (and many others) switched position and was forced to lugubriously return those rifles they had confiscated.

http://www.atfabuse.com/leantigun-1.html


"In seizing the M96 rifles, the DOJ Firearms Division agents mistakenly believed that the model M96 was illegal because of one statutory definition of an "assault weapon" includes any semi-automatic centerfire rifle with the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and a conspicuously protruding pistol grip. Although the M96 does not have a pistol grip, the agents wrongfully believed that the "capacity to accept" provision applies to both the detachable magazine and the pistol grip. The agents believed the M96 was an "assault weapon" because it has the "capacity to accept" a pistol grip - as many guns do."


And from the Robinson Armament website, the DOJ letter describing the same. You might even still be able to go on the DOJ website and find their own apology acknowledging the blunder.


http://www.robarm.com/55404_NRA_%20%20Ltr%20from%20DOJ%20re%20M96.pdf

.

mr2.0
08-10-2006, 7:23 PM
wait a seccond... if you are breaking in the barrel arn't you cracking it open to clean the barrel at least every 5 rounds?
Yeah, but I have 24" barrel which is a bit long. The barrel would hit the table if I don't lift it up. Lifting a 14+ lbs with just the pivot pin attachs the upper and the lower is not funny and easy task either.

glockk9mm
08-10-2006, 7:52 PM
wait a seccond... if you are breaking in the barrel arn't you cracking it open to clean the barrel at least every 5 rounds?

Is this how you break in a barrel? For how long do you have to do this?

saki302
08-10-2006, 8:14 PM
Do a google search. There are two schools of barrel break-in. One says clean, shoot, etc., until you feel sick of cleaning, the other says just shoot the damn thing. I used to do the major break-in craziness, but it's been proven (and stated by major match barrel manufacturers) that excess cleaning can hurt more than help. Now I just clean ever 10 on a new barrel, until I'm sick of it (maybe 100 rounds), then just shoot the damn thing.

-Dave

blkA4alb
08-11-2006, 8:16 AM
Yeah, but I have 24" barrel which is a bit long. The barrel would hit the table if I don't lift it up. Lifting a 14+ lbs with just the pivot pin attachs the upper and the lower is not funny and easy task either.
I suggest a bipod. I have a 20" bull barrel but it should be even more helpful with a 24" barrel. When its broken open it sits like a tripod and you can load it sooo easily. Just pop the rounds in, close it down and push the pin in.

Sugarfoot47
08-11-2006, 12:08 PM
After what Cali-gula posted about the M-96(and I remember this incident), my comment isn't all that funny. If it hadn't been for the defined provisions under law and having to return those M-96 rifles, the DOJ today could see the CA version of the Keltec SU-16 with a threaded barrel and protector cap as having the "capacity to accept" a regular flash hider. Or an OLL with a monsterman grip and detachable mag provision as having the "capacity to accept" a collapsible stock. It's already a sad state of affairs when law abiding people with an enthusiastic hobby can't tell if they are skirting the law or not despite their best knowledgable efforts to stay within it.

mailman
08-11-2006, 12:39 PM
This has been discussed many times before, I believe there was even a poll, it will continue to be a gray area, SRBís in any form have not been approved by the DOJ, no matter what your setup on your OLL a DA can always choose to say that u manufactured an AW, however the SRB and detachable magazine setup would be the most compliant if u are following the latest memo.