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m1a1driver
01-10-2011, 1:08 PM
I have a .44 cal 1860 army replica that I have been s hooting for a few years. I have 2 brass powder measures. one is a smaller one, graduated from 5-50grs and the other is larger graduated from 10-120grs with a spout. I also use the pyrodex pellets (30 gr equiv). I know BP is measured by volume, but when I filled up 30grs in each brass measure, the smaller measure's 30gr comes out to 16.5grs in my powder scale, the larger brass measure comes out to 21.5grs, and the pyrodex pellet weighs in at 25.5grs? what gives? arent all 3 supposed to be the same measurement? Ive also noticed the pellets produce more recoil than the powder, but all 3 are 'supposedly' 30 gr charges of pyrodex.

littlejake
01-10-2011, 2:12 PM
I have a .44 cal 1860 army replica that I have been s hooting for a few years. I have 2 brass powder measures. one is a smaller one, graduated from 5-50grs and the other is larger graduated from 10-120grs with a spout. I also use the pyrodex pellets (30 gr equiv). I know BP is measured by volume, but when I filled up 30grs in each brass measure, the smaller measure's 30gr comes out to 16.5grs in my powder scale, the larger brass measure comes out to 21.5grs, and the pyrodex pellet weighs in at 25.5grs? what gives? arent all 3 supposed to be the same measurement? Ive also noticed the pellets produce more recoil than the powder, but all 3 are 'supposedly' 30 gr charges of pyrodex.

It's a confusing subject. A search on wikipedia says, "Pyrodex, and most other black powder substitutes, are formulated to be a volume-for-volume equivalent of black powder, not an equivalent mass-for-mass (weight-for-weight). Pyrodex is measured by volumetric measurement techniques, not in grains on a scale, due to the difference in density of Pyrodex versus black powder. For example, to measure a "60 grain equivalent" of Hodgdon's Pyrodex suitable for use in a muzzleloader rifle, one uses a volumetric measure that produces a volume of Pyrodex equal to the volume of a mass of 60 grains of black powder. Due to Pyrodex being less dense than black powder, a measurement by weight on a scale of 60 grains of mass of Pyrodex would be near a 30 percent overload."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrodex

This would explain why the pellet weighs less than 30 grains. I'm not sure why two different BP volumetric measures would differ in weight... perhaps they are inaccurate -- i.e.: the 30 gr marks on the two measures do not have the same volume...

m1a1driver
01-10-2011, 2:26 PM
I was thinking that was the case, the measures not being accurate. Someone told me that you cannot overcharge a BP revolver, you can fill it as high as you can in the chamber with enough room for a ball to fit and cover with grease and it will fire with no problems. Is this true?

Tallship
01-10-2011, 3:08 PM
I was thinking that was the case, the measures not being accurate. Someone told me that you cannot overcharge a BP revolver, you can fill it as high as you can in the chamber with enough room for a ball to fit and cover with grease and it will fire with no problems. Is this true?

That is true for steel framed revolvers and BP or Pyrodex (not 777). Do that enough with a brass frame revolver and you will wind up warping the frame.

hk91666
01-10-2011, 5:41 PM
I shoot 30 gr pellets in my steel framed 1858 it works great and I do not use grease just press ball in where it leaves a slight lead ring.

littlejake
01-11-2011, 2:40 AM
Grease is used to reduce possible chamber to chamber flashover. A problem with BP percussion cap revolvers that can send a cap back toward the shooter and really test his/her shooting glasses.

Pyrodex is not as sensitive to ignition sources as true BP is -- and grease may not be required. For safety, it's still recommended.

hk91666
01-11-2011, 5:35 AM
Grease is used to reduce possible chamber to chamber flashover. A problem with BP percussion cap revolvers that can send a cap back toward the shooter and really test his/her shooting glasses.

Pyrodex is not as sensitive to ignition sources as true BP is -- and grease may not be required. For safety, it's still recommended.

It is my understanding with pellets and a tight fitting ball grease is not necessary. But I do understand why it is necessary with flake BP.

wellfedirishman
01-11-2011, 7:39 AM
I find that the grease on top of the ball helps to keep the fouling soft and make it easier to remove, even aside from preventing chainfires (chamber to chamber crossover ignition).

m1a1driver
01-11-2011, 12:14 PM
grease or patch. I use one or the other. Patch if your going to have it holstered for a while.

EricClay
01-12-2011, 10:31 AM
For shooting pistol find a product or equivalent called wonder wads. Once you switch you'll never touch grease again.

Eric

scrat
01-13-2011, 8:22 AM
it is true that black powder is done by volume and not weight. same time you can not weigh a charge of black powder and expect to get the same weight every time. think about it in volumetric you are just filling up to a point or mark. thus this does not account for air gaps or differnces in size of granuals this is why you get a difference. like some have stated when measuring black powder use a volumetric measure and just go with what it shows.