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phatgranny
08-09-2006, 12:57 PM
Howdy again. I have another question which I'm sure is obvious to you wise gun-gurus, yet simply escapes me.

Why would anyone want a bolt-action rifle? Seeing as autoloaders in the same caliber as bolt-action rifles are availible (i think), what is the advantage to having a bolt action rifle?

Sorry about my naivete, yet this is all new to me, and I want to learn all i can.

megavolt121
08-09-2006, 1:06 PM
You get a bolt action for better accuracy.

Snipers use it for accuracy, and becuase they can control when/where the brass goes.

tuna quesadilla
08-09-2006, 1:11 PM
Bolt-action rifles are generally more accurate out of the box than automatic rifles. Of course, there are exceptions.

They're often cheaper than automatic guns in the same caliber. For example, you can get a Remington 700 in .308 for $350-400 if you look around, but a .308 AR15 will be closer to $900-1000.

You don't have to worry about your loads being too weak to cycle the bolt... Subsonic rounds, blanks, etc, can all be fired in a bolt action with no extra adaptors or anything.

Bolt guns are generally more reliable than autoloaders... Less moving parts equates to less things that can go wrong.

phatgranny
08-09-2006, 1:21 PM
Thanks for the info guys. I can understand how something that is mechanically simpler would have better reliability. I appreciate you informing a callow new shooter!

M1A Rifleman
08-09-2006, 1:30 PM
The reason to own a bolt action rifle is there is no reason for civilians (non military and non police) to own semi-auto or full auto rifles.




just kidding ;)

In addition to the other responses, I would add personnal tast.

Fjold
08-09-2006, 1:41 PM
Because I can't find a left handed, semi-automatic 375 H&H magnum. :)

Actually the big reasons are accuracy and cost, as stated above. The very best autoloaders will shoot with bolt guns, but the very best boltguns will outshoot anything.

50BMGBOB
08-09-2006, 2:01 PM
Bolt actions are usally lighter than semi's if you hunt that might factor in.

Ironballs
08-09-2006, 2:02 PM
Bolts:

never jam, and very rarely malfunction.

Generally yield more velocity per inch of bbl, as you dont use/loose gas to operate the bolt.

Dont throw ejected brass all over/give away your position

Generally lighter weight, way less moving parts, simple manual of arms, more ergonomic final product.

-And, just as you wont hunt rabbit with a .338 Lapua, there is a right tool for the job, and often the bolt action offers the right tool for many jobs...

JHC
08-09-2006, 2:35 PM
They are lots of fun for little $. Everyone should own a Mosin, best $75 you'll ever spend.

CalNRA
08-09-2006, 2:42 PM
ever hear a 22LR bolt action rifle with subsonic ammo? what gun discharging? I dropped a quarter on the ground officer... ;)

Josh
08-09-2006, 2:51 PM
Also with semis you need to be wary of what loads you are using, pressure curves and burn rate etc. In a bolt action as long as your not showing pressure signs on the brass your ok.

bu-bye
08-09-2006, 3:05 PM
This is why:D

http://64.124.10.205/savage/3-16moa.JPG
Its amazing what a $600 gun (total with optics, stock, mounts, rings, trigger job) can do;)

NRAhighpowershooter
08-09-2006, 3:42 PM
Its amazing what a $600 gun (total with optics, stock, mounts, rings, trigger job) can do

ditto.....700VS in .308
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid209/p4edc36cdcc5c07243af979951cb0397c/ee068916.jpg

Fjold
08-09-2006, 4:02 PM
Like I said, they don't make left handed, semi-automatic 375 H&H magnums and if they did, they wouldn't shoot like this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/Fjold/DSC00202.jpg

anotherted
08-09-2006, 4:45 PM
fewer moving parts. After pulling the trigger there are less parts to come to rest in different relative positions = better consistency = better accuracy.

M. Sage
08-09-2006, 5:32 PM
@ JHC: I love my 91/30. It really was the best $90 I spent. :D

Bolt action guns are usually cheaper and all that that was posted above. They're less ammo sensitive as above, but whoever posted that forgot the "harder to KB" factor of bolt guns. They're usually a bit tougher.

Way way easier to clean, too. The Mosin Nagant rifles, for example, you just open the bolt, pull the trigger, and pull the bolt all the way out. Then clean it up and put it back together.

There's also a sense of accomplishment when you learn to shoot a bolt action gun fast. :D

tuna quesadilla
08-09-2006, 6:17 PM
They are lots of fun for little $. Everyone should own a Mosin, best $75 you'll ever spend.

Amen to that. If you're looking for a cheap bolt gun, there is nothing that can beat the value of a good military surplus gun.

M. Sage
08-09-2006, 6:29 PM
Amen to that. If you're looking for a cheap bolt gun, there is nothing that can beat the value of a good military surplus gun.

Cheap to buy, and in the Mosin's case at least, cheap to feed. Amen.

JHC
08-09-2006, 6:57 PM
I have the carbine M38 but now I want a 44 and a 91/30 too. I didn't like bolt guns,... til I got one and now I fire it more than my OLL AR

The Soup Nazi
08-09-2006, 6:59 PM
Because WW2 rifles rock.

bahazero
08-09-2006, 8:20 PM
Why would anyone want a bolt-action rifle?

Because they're cool.

E__WOK
08-09-2006, 8:23 PM
They will never be banned---or they shouldn't.

M. Sage
08-09-2006, 8:36 PM
They will never be banned---or they shouldn't.

Oh, just wait...

"This rifle goes for as low as $60, ammo is as cheap as $.10 a round, and it's powerful and accurate and most come with a dangerous bayonet!!!"

I could see it happening.

grammaton76
08-09-2006, 8:54 PM
"This rifle goes for as low as $60, ammo is as cheap as $.10 a round, and it's powerful and accurate and most come with a dangerous bayonet!!!"

You forgot the steel buttplate, made just for clubbing baby seals.

five.five-six
08-09-2006, 9:05 PM
You forgot the steel buttplate, made just for clubbing baby seals.

i did'nt forget that clubbing baby seals .com (http://pages.sbcglobal.net/bryanbaskin/clubbing.html)

the bigh accuracy diferance with a bolt action is that the bolt has a more positive lock puting the bullet and casing in the same place every time. the star locking type (ar-15) semi bolts are a lot better as semi's go but feal the bolt wiggle around on your mini14 with the bolt closed

koiloco
08-10-2006, 1:08 PM
i don't know.

I just like the round ball on the handle that you pull back and forth to load and eject brass :)

what is it call again?:p

The Soup Nazi
08-10-2006, 1:11 PM
I wonder if I could turn my SKS into a bolt action rifle by removing the gas assembly forcing me to pull the bolt carrier back each time I wanted to chamber a new round. :D

grammaton76
08-10-2006, 1:22 PM
I wonder if I could turn my SKS into a bolt action rifle by removing the gas assembly forcing me to pull the bolt carrier back each time I wanted to chamber a new round. :D

If you remove the gas piston, you'll end up with soot all over your face.. :)

Although the Yugo does have that gas cutoff valve, which would probably change things. If I were trying to do that, my solution would be to take out that little metal bit in the front with the gas cutoff valve on it, then silver solder the gas channel shut. Then, insert it into the rifle in the 'blocked' position (upwards) and re-insert the thing that pivots side to side - then use locktite or something to glue it into the cylinder. It would still be able to pivot and release the GL sights, but no gas would be getting through it and you'd have to drill a bit in order to remove the little cylinder. But it WOULD be 100% reversible, other than having to replace the cylinder.

Those cylinders are frequently pitted anyway - I know mine was, and replacing it fixed the cycle issues I had with my SKS.

M. Sage
08-10-2006, 5:53 PM
You forgot the steel buttplate, made just for clubbing baby seals.

Ah, the "tactical butt plate." My shoulder probably will NEVER let me forget at this point.

tuna quesadilla
08-10-2006, 8:08 PM
Oh, just wait...

"This rifle goes for as low as $60, ammo is as cheap as $.10 a round, and it's powerful and accurate and most come with a dangerous bayonet!!!"

I could see it happening.

I've actually seen something similar in an article online. I was doing some research for a report on firearms violence when I saw article about how a person can just go into Big 5 and buy MILITARY guns for less than $100 each. The author also made a point of saying that these guns are "far more powerful than even the army's standard-issue rifle". Of course, the ******* who wrote the article neglected to mention that they are considered very obsolete by today's military standards, and they haven't been used by any militaries for decades...

Then, in a different article, this guy went on to talk about one of those Keltec 9mm carbines - He actually called it a "sniper rifle" because it could "hit people over a football field away". :mad:

But I'm starting to get off topic so... go bolt guns! :D

Cato
08-11-2006, 11:02 AM
The reason to own a bolt action rifle is there is no reason for civilians (non military and non police) to own semi-auto or full auto rifles.


just kidding ;)

In addition to the other responses, I would add personnal tast.
__________________________________________________ ____

Don't make me stop this car and come over there! :mad:

M. Sage
08-11-2006, 6:17 PM
I've actually seen something similar in an article online. I was doing some research for a report on firearms violence when I saw article about how a person can just go into Big 5 and buy MILITARY guns for less than $100 each. The author also made a point of saying that these guns are "far more powerful than even the army's standard-issue rifle". Of course, the ******* who wrote the article neglected to mention that they are considered very obsolete by today's military standards, and they haven't been used by any militaries for decades...

Then, in a different article, this guy went on to talk about one of those Keltec 9mm carbines - He actually called it a "sniper rifle" because it could "hit people over a football field away". :mad:

But I'm starting to get off topic so... go bolt guns! :D

ROFL! I need a link or a copy of that article!!

SemiAutoSam
08-11-2006, 6:33 PM
I would start a Brand New thread but im feeling lazy at the moment.

Any ideas on a good bolt gun in .308 or 30/06 ? money isn't the #1 issue quality of workmanship is #1 and money is 4 or 5 when it comes to my list of priorities when buying a rifle.

C.G.
08-11-2006, 6:40 PM
I would start a Brand New thread but im feeling lazy at the moment.

Any ideas on a good bolt gun in .308 or 30/06 ? money isn't the #1 issue quality of workmanship is #1 and money is 4 or 5 when it comes to my list of priorities when buying a rifle.

Do a bit of reading here:
http://www.snipershide.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi

SemiAutoSam
08-11-2006, 7:11 PM
Thanks Ill have a looksee

tuna quesadilla
08-11-2006, 9:40 PM
ROFL! I need a link or a copy of that article!!

Couldn't find the one about milsurp rifles, but I found the one about the "sniper" Sub-9. I can't link to it because it is saved on my computer, but here's an excerpt. It seems I misquoted it, but oh well... the guy is still an idiot.

For reasons that escape me entirely, an entire subculture has developed around sniper rifles. A gun enthusiast of my acquaintance proudly constructed his own sniper rifle from a separate barrel, trigger assembly, bolt action and stock. He uses the word "sniper" in his E-mail address. A recent issue of Guns & Ammo magazine has a long feature on a sniper rifle, the Kel-Tec Sub-9 folding carbine, which informs readers that a test-firing of the Sub-9 produced a result "good enough for a head shot at 100 yards and quite good enough (if you get the bullet drop right) for a body shot at 150-plus yards."

For anyone not familiar with the Sub-9, it's this dinky little 9mm carbine...

http://www.islandtactical.com/gunsa-m/KT2K9BR_1.jpg

M. Sage
08-11-2006, 10:17 PM
Rofl, in other words: "Minute of Man." That's funny.

About the only sniper rifles out there that are intended for 100 or less yards are .22 rimfires. :P

Separate barrel, etc? Gee, he wanted an nice, custom-built tack driver. Doesn't make it a sniper rifle, but you'd never convince someone who thinks pistol-caliber carbine is a highly accurate sniper rifle of it.

Thanks for posting that. Funny, but in a kind of sad way.

zefflyn
08-14-2006, 9:30 AM
I wonder if I could turn my SKS into a bolt action rifle by removing the gas assembly forcing me to pull the bolt carrier back each time I wanted to chamber a new round. :D

I don't know about that - but you can easily change it into an AK-47 by having the Chronicle write a story about it. :D

Thanks for posting that. Funny, but in a kind of sad way.

In a way, we provide quite a bit of fodder to the anti's by using the toughest-guy terms we can think of. On they other hand, they take everything way beyond face value.

M. Sage
08-14-2006, 6:56 PM
In a way, we provide quite a bit of fodder to the anti's by using the toughest-guy terms we can think of. On they other hand, they take everything way beyond face value.

You've got a point there. Referring to a well-built, accurate rifle as a "sniper rifle" is a bit silly.

Mesa Tactical
08-15-2006, 4:48 PM
The author also made a point of saying that these guns are "far more powerful than even the army's standard-issue rifle".

As they certainly are. This is one of the gaping holes in the assault weapon ban mania, that there are far more powerful rifles out there, such as M1s and Mosin-Nagants, that aren't banned because they have pretty wood stocks.

One of my favorite tricks with noobs is to show them the ammunition an evil AR-15 fires and compare it with a monstrous .30-'06 round. Then I ask, which do you think is more lethal?

Of course, the ******* who wrote the article neglected to mention that they are considered very obsolete by today's military standards, and they haven't been used by any militaries for decades...

As recently as the 1980s, the US CIA, the Saudi CIA (the GID) and the Pakistan CIA (the ISI) supplied thousands of Lee-Enfield bolt-action rifles to the Afghan mujahadeen fighting the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. The Taleban were still using these rifles during the US invasion in 2001.

The USGI current issue M24 sniper rifle is basically a Remington 700 bolt-action deer hunting rifle.

Mesa Tactical
08-15-2006, 4:52 PM
Any ideas on a good bolt gun in .308 or 30/06 ?

Nothing beats a Springfield M1903 or M1903A3 for a .30-'06 bolt. Piece of history that's a great shooter as well.

I bought one of each from the CMP a few years ago. My M1903 was made in 1918 and has the smoothest action of any military arm I own.

Runners up include the Mauser k.98, a nice Lee-Enfield, the Swiss K-31 or the cheap and cheerful Big 5 Mosin-Nagant, the rifle that won WWII.