PDA

View Full Version : C&R questions


Atmosphere
01-08-2011, 9:06 PM
I was under the impression that C&R status applies to any rifle or shotgun more than 50 years old excluding "assault" rifles and handguns. I saw a mosin for sale the other day in the private firearms for sale subforum and the seller said the buyer would pay transfer fees and this confused me. Im thinking of selling my mosin and thought I just needed a photocopy of the buyer's driver's license. Do I actually need to transfer through a dealer or does the copy of dl suffice? Also, what am I suppose to do with the copy? Send it to DOJ? Thanks.

Croweman08
01-08-2011, 9:09 PM
nope, 50 year old mosins are cash and carry my friend.

johnthomas
01-08-2011, 9:32 PM
If you don't have an 03 C&R license, you don't need anything. You can't sell a long gun to anyone under 18. I myself would get an ID card number and address. You cannot sell it to a prohibited person to your knowledge. I have a license so if I sold one, I would just log it in my bound book.

Cokebottle
01-08-2011, 9:36 PM
thought I just needed a photocopy of the buyer's driver's license.
You don't even need that.
Even an 03FFL doesn't need that.

All YOU need to do is trust that the buyer is not a prohibited person, and is over 18 years old.
So you obtain a copy of his DL... what are you going to do with it? There are no record-keeping requirements for unlicensed individuals.

An 03FFL is required to log the buyer's information into his bound book, which he is required to keep for 20 years (or until he allows his license to expire), but even an 03 is not required to retain a copy of the buyer's DL.

Mssr. Eleganté
01-09-2011, 12:28 AM
I was under the impression that C&R status applies to any rifle or shotgun more than 50 years old excluding "assault" rifles and handguns.

C&R status applies to "assault" rifles too. It even applies to handguns.

But C&R long guns that are over 50 years old can be transfered in California without the need to go through a California "dealer". That's probably what you are thinking of.

morrcarr67
01-09-2011, 7:27 AM
C&R status applies to "assault" rifles too. It even applies to handguns.

But C&R long guns that are over 50 years old can be transfered in California without the need to go through a California "dealer". That's probably what you are thinking of.

I wondered how long it would take someone to clear this up for the OP. :)

Atmosphere
01-10-2011, 1:33 PM
Thank you for the replies. I just wanted to be clear and within law when I go to sell my mosin. I asked about the Driver's License since my name is on the DROS and if the gun were to eventually land in the hands of someone who uses it in a crime I don't want to be implicated in anyway and have proof that I sold it. I don't think I've ever heard of gang bangers using C&R rifles but I would rather be safe than sorry.

Cokebottle
01-10-2011, 7:13 PM
Thank you for the replies. I just wanted to be clear and within law when I go to sell my mosin. I asked about the Driver's License since my name is on the DROS and if the gun were to eventually land in the hands of someone who uses it in a crime I don't want to be implicated in anyway and have proof that I sold it. I don't think I've ever heard of gang bangers using C&R rifles but I would rather be safe than sorry.
Your name is on the DROS, but the gun's serial number is not.

The only thing the DOJ has is "On xx/xx/xx, Atmosphere bought a long gun"

The serial number is on the Federal 4473, but that document is in the files at the FFL. It didn't go anywhere.

If the gun is used in a crime, the height of the profile will determine how far investigators will go to track it. That process would involve:

1 - Contacting the importer to find out what dealer they sold it to.
2 - Contacting that dealer to find out who he sold it to.
3 - Contacting that person to see if they still had it immediately prior to it being seized by the police.
4 - If the answer is "no", the next question is "When and where did you sell it?"

If to a dealer, go back to #2 and repeat. If to a private party, go back to #3 and repeat.

If at any point, the party of #3 says "Do you have a warrant?", the investigators have a problem unless they have other evidence linking that person to the crime... and if that person is 3 states away, it becomes even more problematic, involving agencies from other states.
It's a 50+ year old long gun. It could have changed hands 30 times over the last 50+ years, and in most states, there is NO documentation on private party transfers.

It is effectively untraceable unless you bought it from the dealer who received it from the importer.

The 4473 records are available for inspection by the BATFE and DOJ, and they may even copy information down, but it is extremely unlikely that it is digitized and referenceable.