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Rogerbutthead
08-08-2006, 9:52 AM
I am hearing more and more stories about ATF conducting audits of gun dealers (storefronts) and how they are putting them out of business.

Is this true in all of California? Is it part of a Nationwide pattern?

Or are these just isolated events? :confused:

xenophobe
08-08-2006, 10:05 AM
Nationwide pattern, and there has already been a national legal conference among gun lawyers addressing this specific issue. ATF is inspecting for the sole purpose of shutting down FFLs.

ATF is making waves in the SF Bay Area right now...

Rumpled
08-08-2006, 4:08 PM
Waves in Santa Barbara also, though they might be deserved.

trbon8r
08-08-2006, 9:29 PM
I'm not sure about ATF, but I spoke with my FFL tonight regarding the transfer of an XD .45 Tactical I just bought.

My FFL tells me he has been informed by Cal DOJ that the state can and will inspect dealer's books to ensure FFLs are collecting sales tax on transfers. This includes not only transfers where buyer and seller reside in California, BUT ALSO TRANSFERS FROM ANOTHER DEALER OUT OF STATE!!!! :mad:

This means that even though my XD is coming from New Mexico, I will still have to fork over another 40 bucks in sales tax to our friends in Sacramento on top of my FFL's fee. Even though DOJ isn't in the tax collecting business, don't think they wouldn't have their phones on speed dial to their contacts at the State Board of Equalization if they thought it would give them an angle to hassle a particular dealer they took a disliking to.

If Turners would have had the gun in stock, I would have just bought it here.

xenophobe
08-08-2006, 10:37 PM
My FFL tells me he has been informed by Cal DOJ that the state communistas can and will inspect dealer's books to ensure FFLs are collecting sales tax on transfers. This includes not only transfers where buyer and seller reside in California, BUT ALSO TRANSFERS FROM ANOTHER DEALER OUT OF STATE!!!! :mad:

The DOJ can't audit you for failure to pay/collect taxes, that's the State Board of Equalization's job. They can certainly see if it's being done and then contact the SBOE, and it's highly unlikey that this would be anything but an afterthought by the DOJ, but it certainly wouldn't be their primary intent.

GUNS4WORK
08-08-2006, 11:15 PM
I Have A Letter From The Sboe That Says The Dealer should Collect Tax On An Out Of State Purchase,(IT SAYS SHOULD NOT MUST.) But That It Is The Purchasers Responsablitly To Pay The Tax On Their 1040. In Other Words They Can't MAKE ME COLLECT IT. Its Much Easier To Try And Force Me Than To Find You.

trbon8r
08-09-2006, 6:13 AM
The DOJ can't audit you for failure to pay/collect taxes, that's the State Board of Equalization's job. They can certainly see if it's being done and then contact the SBOE, and it's highly unlikey that this would be anything but an afterthought by the DOJ, but it certainly wouldn't be their primary intent.

I could swear that was exactly what I said. :p :D

The tax issue just gives DOJ one more tool in the toolbox during an audit to hassle a dealer with, "if you don't go along with us and do as we say, we can drop a dime to SBOE and make things inconvenient for you".

Call me a cynic, but I think this is more motivated by the fact the gun business is frowned upon by the powers that be, than it is about the money. Why isn't DOJ calling up every major on-line retailer and demanding they collect taxes and remit to the state of California?

DrjonesUSA
08-09-2006, 10:34 AM
ATF is making waves in the SF Bay Area right now...


Can you guys please post more details or news stories regarding your comments on ATF's actions in the bay area & Santa Barbara?

Thanks.

VeryCoolCat
08-09-2006, 11:12 AM
Okay we need a new bill that gets rid of Tax on out of state to in state transfers.

Also making the $25 dros fee tax writeoffable to state tax would be a good addition, although it probably wouldn't pass :D

metalhead357
08-09-2006, 11:13 AM
Can you guys please post more details or news stories regarding your comments on ATF's actions in the bay area & Santa Barbara?

Thanks.

Well, there was the entire thread on Trader's and how they lost thier FFL........ way too many guns unaccounted for:eek: was much lower than intially reported but but still far too many............

DrjonesUSA
08-09-2006, 11:31 AM
Call me a cynic, but I think this is more motivated by the fact the gun business is frowned upon by the powers that be, than it is about the money.



That is PRECISELY what this is about: putting lawful, law-abiding gun dealers out of business for the sole purpose of the fact that the government does not want its citizens to own firearms.


The sole purpose of any and all forms of gun control (putting gun dealers out of business for any reason is most certainly a form of gun control) is to disarm and otherwise make it more difficult for law-abiding citizens to purchase, own, carry and use firearms.

PERIOD, END OF STORY.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is either:

a) Stupid.

b) Ignorant.

c) Lying to you.

d) Some combination of a), b) and c).

ljg17
08-09-2006, 12:16 PM
1.) Interfering with lawful interstate commerce.
2.) Using a telephone to intimidate lawful business.


How much clearer does it have to be????

Cato
08-09-2006, 5:23 PM
I got a letter from Turner's Pasadena telling of an audit by the DOJ. I didn't initial my gun safe affidavit and the DOJ caught it. I had to mail another affidavit with an initial.

adamsreeftank
08-09-2006, 10:43 PM
That is PRECISELY what this is about: putting lawful, law-abiding gun dealers out of business for the sole purpose of the fact that the government does not want its citizens to own firearms.



I say get em while you can.

xenophobe
08-09-2006, 10:52 PM
Can you guys please post more details or news stories regarding your comments on ATF's actions in the bay area & Santa Barbara?

Thanks.

Sorry, I work for SJGE and any comments about my store or others in the area would be unprofessional and unethical. Needless to say, a number of Bay Area stores are being told their licenses are being revoked, or would not be renewed.

I will say, one of the ATF agents came into our store 2 years ago and the first thing the lady said before she even looked at one entry in the log book was something to the extent of 'We're the ATF and I'm here to shut you down'. Yes, her name, the time and date and her exact quote was noted.

TKo_Productions
08-09-2006, 10:55 PM
I will say, one of the ATF agents came into our store 2 years ago and the first thing the lady said before she even looked at one entry in the log book was something to the extent of 'We're the ATF and we're here to shut you down'. Yes, her name, the time and date and her exact quote was noted.

LOL, I bet that caught everyone attention. Pretty sad/pathetic though. :(

C.G.
08-09-2006, 11:27 PM
Sorry, I work for SJGE and any comments about my store or others in the area would be unprofessional and unethical. Needless to say, a number of Bay Area stores are being told their licenses are being revoked, or would not be renewed.

I will say, one of the ATF agents came into our store 2 years ago and the first thing the lady said before she even looked at one entry in the log book was something to the extent of 'We're the ATF and I'm here to shut you down'. Yes, her name, the time and date and her exact quote was noted.

I guess she was wrong!:rolleyes: I bought bunch of stuff not too long ago from you.

faterikcartman
08-10-2006, 12:55 AM
The ATF is a big organization.

A problem with these big government bureaucracies is that they must continue to justify their existence.

Thus, they become agencies in search of problems.