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View Full Version : new to C&R how bad is Calif.?


ernstca
08-07-2006, 12:39 PM
I live in CA and have already applied for a FFL 03 but now I'm hearing that it may be no good in CA. I have heard I need another check made by DOJ CA, that I will not be able to buy pistols. That I still have to go through DROS. etc. I don't know what the truth is and searching through the CA DOJ site has not been much help. Has anybody out there actually gone through the process in CA that can give me good information or a website. I'm starting to think that when I recieve my lic. from the feds I should just send it back and cancel. Wish I lived in a free state.
Thanks
Ernstca

EOD Guy
08-07-2006, 1:05 PM
Here is an explanation of the California C&R regulations:

There is a lot of confusion around concerning the California regulations on C&R Firearms. The first thing to remember is that California, with few exceptions, requires all firearms transfers in the state to be processed through a dealer [Penal Code 12072(d)]. There is no exception for C&R FFL holders. There is however, an exception to the dealer transfer requirement for C&R rifles and shotguns that are over 50 years old. [PC 12078(t)(2)] This exception is available to anyone legally able to possess firearms. California doesn’t care if you are licensed or not, that’s a Federal matter. The 50 year rifle and shotgun exception is the reason that C&R FFL holders in California can receive these types of firearms directly from an out of state supplier.

The California definition for a C&R firearm is exactly the same as that used by BATF in 27CFR. California references both Title 18 and 27 CFR for the definition. If the Feds say a firearm is C&R, so does the California DOJ.

There are a couple of exceptions to the firearms laws that are available to C&R FFL holders. If the licensee also holds a Certificate of Eligibility (COE) from the California DOJ, they are exempt from the 10-day waiting period when buying C&R firearms from a dealer. [PC 12078(t)(1)] The same C&R FFL holder with a COE is also exempt from the one handgun a month law for both C&R and modern handguns. [PC 12072(a)(9)(B)] You also would not need a handgun safety certificate when purchasing C&R handguns. [PC 12807(a)(6)]


Where the C&R FFL comes in handy is when the holder is out of the state. They may purchase any C&R firearm and bring it back to California. The exceptions of course include those “evil” “assault weapons”. Also, magazines with a capacity greater than 10 rounds cannot be brought back. Any C&R handguns purchased must be registered with the California DOJ within 5 days and are reported on Form BCIA 4100A along with a $19.00 payment for each handgun. [PC 12072(f)(3)]

chiefcrash
08-07-2006, 3:00 PM
short version:

50+ year old rifles and shotguns can get mailed straight to your door
discounts at places like Midway
and if you drive out to a reno gun show, you can pick up C&R pistols (cash and carry) and bring them back with less hassle (no FFL fees or DROS, though there is a $19 fee and a little form to send to the DOJ)

that's about all the goodness. if yer into old military bolt action guns, C&Rs are great

rick_in_lb
08-07-2006, 4:15 PM
EOD Guy, you mention "Certificate of Eligibility (COE)". How and where do I get one of these? If you could point me in the right direction I would appreciate it. Thanks!

rick_in_lb
08-07-2006, 5:00 PM
Forget the above. I found it with a search. Thanks! Not sure if it reallllly is worth it.

chiefcrash
08-07-2006, 8:16 PM
Forget the above. I found it with a search. Thanks! Not sure if it reallllly is worth it.

yea, screw the COE. if you can't wait 10 extra days, you REALLY need to get laid ;-)

rick_in_lb
08-07-2006, 8:33 PM
Yup you are correct. I only want the C&R for the discounts anyway.
Just got into collecting the older military guns. Not a bad deal, just cannot tell the wife the real cost of some of these. I also know my son reads this forum and I know he wont tell...RIGHT Vincent !!!:mad:

ernstca
08-08-2006, 8:15 AM
Thanks for the information it was getting pretty frustrating trying to find out what was going on when even gun shop owners seem to disagree. This is a great site should of came here first. I think I will go down and get printed for the extra ca cert. Having been married 34 years, getting laid is not an issue, having to wait an extra ten days and making a second trip to the sellers place is. I don't live far from Reno so this C&R will probably work out well. The biggest problem now will be coming up with enough money for a couple more safes. It's always hard to buy a safe when I think of how many rifles I could of bought with that money.Anyway thanks again for the info. I'll let you know how things go with the extra cert.
Ernstca

Elandur
08-16-2006, 6:55 PM
I also know my son reads this forum and I know he wont tell...RIGHT Vincent !!!:mad:
Of course not! As far as mom knows I have no idea what you paid for them >_>
:D

five.five-six
01-04-2007, 12:57 AM
so if I do not have my c&r yet can i do a ftf cash and carry on c&r rifles

grammaton76
01-04-2007, 12:59 AM
so if I do not have my c&r yet can i do a ftf cash and carry on c&r rifles

Provided that they're 50 years old or older, and you're dealing with a guy who isn't a 01 FFL, then yes. It's in your best interests, however, to verify the age of the rifle AND get a bill of sale with the guy's signature (in case he gets nasty and takes your money, then threatens to report it stolen)

grammaton76
01-04-2007, 1:02 AM
yea, screw the COE. if you can't wait 10 extra days, you REALLY need to get laid ;-)

Either that, or you foresee buying at gun shows in distant parts of the state, and value your time / gas money. :)

dw1784
01-04-2007, 2:56 PM
new to C&R how bad is Calif.?

have u seen the price of ammo lately?
or the price of a Springfield of Arisaka?

get it while u can!:)

VeryCoolCat
01-04-2007, 3:52 PM
yea, screw the COE. if you can't wait 10 extra days, you REALLY need to get laid ;-)

You DO KNOW that with a C&R FFL + COE... you don't have to wait 30 days between ALL (not just C&R) HANDGUN sales.

dfletcher
01-04-2007, 4:01 PM
Just a minor clairification, a gun does not have to be 50+ years old. There are some exceptions, the most often seen one I think are the Ishapore Enfields in 308 Winchester. Manufactured up to the mid 1960s.

chiefcrash
01-04-2007, 4:35 PM
You DO KNOW that with a C&R FFL + COE... you don't have to wait 30 days between ALL (not just C&R) HANDGUN sales.

yes, i know

my problem has always been not being able to AFFORD two handguns within 30 days...

chiefcrash
01-04-2007, 4:37 PM
Just a minor clairification, a gun does not have to be 50+ years old. There are some exceptions, the most often seen one I think are the Ishapore Enfields in 308 Winchester. Manufactured up to the mid 1960s.

just a minor clarification of your clarification:

a gun less than 50 years old can have C&R status as far as the ATF is concerned, this is true...

but in california, if it's not 50 years old + 1 day, then it MUST go through a 01 FFL regardless if you have a C&R license or not.



Now, if you were at the reno gun show or something, then you CAN pick up any C&R gun and bring it back (if it's a handgun, you gotta send a form + $19 to the DOJ, long guns don't require form or fee)







we really need to make a California C&R FAQ or something...

joe4702
01-04-2007, 8:18 PM
Get yer' C&R. It's nice to be able to buy a rifle online and have it shipped direct to your door, without having to pay money to and get permission from the State. Yeah, you can get certain C&R rifles at Big 5, but then you have to pay for the background check and sales tax. It's also kinda cool to tell someone you're a federally licensed gun collector if they ask how come you have so many guns. Makes the addicition seem more legitimate somehow. ;)

hoffmang
01-04-2007, 8:35 PM
I like to say I'm a Federally Licensed Gun Nut.

-Gene

EOD Guy
01-05-2007, 5:34 AM
just a minor clarification of your clarification:

a gun less than 50 years old can have C&R status as far as the ATF is concerned, this is true...

but in california, if it's not 50 years old + 1 day, then it MUST go through a 01 FFL regardless if you have a C&R license or not.



Now, if you were at the reno gun show or something, then you CAN pick up any C&R gun and bring it back (if it's a handgun, you gotta send a form + $19 to the DOJ, long guns don't require form or fee)







we really need to make a California C&R FAQ or something...

If the Feds say a firearm is C&R, so does California. The Penal Code references 27CFR and Title 18 for the C&R definition. You are correct about the 50 year rule as to whether a transfer has to go through a dealer.

About the only time it would make a difference is if you had an 03 FFL and a COE and wanted to be exempt from the waiting period on a C&R less than 50 years old.

dfletcher
01-05-2007, 4:56 PM
I have a C & R license and regularly buy rifles from out of state. I don't have a COE. Are you saying that when I go to the Big Reno show I can buy a C & R handgun on the spot, then do the CA reg when I return?

Rumpled
01-05-2007, 6:29 PM
dfletcher - Yes
It's gotta be in like 5 days, so call DOJ and get the form ahead of time.

chiefcrash
01-05-2007, 7:24 PM
Are you saying that when I go to the Big Reno show I can buy a C & R handgun on the spot, then do the CA reg when I return?

Yes. While you are out of the state, you can buy C&R rifles and pistols of any age and bring it back to cali

If you buy a C&R rifle, no further action is required. no form, nothing

if you buy a C&R pistol, you must fill out a form and send $19 to the DOJ with 5 days of returning to Cali. That's it.

here's the form. it's too big to attach to this post, so just click the links and print it out
Page one of the form: http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/2561/dojcrform2page1ml6.jpg
Page 2 of the form: http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9939/dojcrform2page2em6.jpg



(grammaton76: i have a .pdf of the form if you want to add it to the wiki or something)

dfletcher
01-05-2007, 8:30 PM
Thanks very much - this will make the trips to Reno worthwhile.

chiefcrash
01-08-2007, 12:19 AM
If anyone needs that form (the .jpg versions seem to print out smaller than the original) i have a .pdf of it. Drop me a line and i'll email it to you

five.five-six
01-08-2007, 5:14 PM
Yes. While you are out of the state, you can buy C&R rifles and pistols of any age and bring it back to cali

If you buy a C&R rifle, no further action is required. no form, nothing

if you buy a C&R pistol, you must fill out a form and send $19 to the DOJ with 5 days of returning to Cali. That's it.

here's the form. it's too big to attach to this post, so just click the links and print it out
Page one of the form: http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/2561/dojcrform2page1ml6.jpg
Page 2 of the form: http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9939/dojcrform2page2em6.jpg



(grammaton76: i have a .pdf of the form if you want to add it to the wiki or something)


here i hosted them for you

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/166/dojcrform2page1ml6dt3.jpg

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6153/dojcrform2page2em6xs4.jpg

hoffmang
01-08-2007, 5:31 PM
Here is a little easier to use PDF version:
http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/DOJ_CnR_Handgun_form.pdf

-Gene