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phatgranny
08-06-2006, 4:14 PM
Howdy all! I'm a 16 year old, new both to this forum and the world of guns. For my first ever firearm, after some research, I decided to purchase a Ruger PC9 with Ghost Ring sights. I had a couple of questions.
1) What are your opinions of this gun? The reviews i've read online where mostly positive, but I want your opinions. Be sure to include any negative aspects so I know what do expext.
2) Hunting- I know that a 9mm round is easily overkill for varmits like rabbits or squirils, but I wanted to throw across this hypothetical scenario: could a 9mm +P+ round with hollowpoint be used to take down a small deer? I have never heard of 9mm being used in deer hunting, but I was curious if the right load was selected if it could be done.

Thanks a lot!

M. Sage
08-06-2006, 4:46 PM
I wouldn't trust 9mm to kill anything deer-sized or bigger. Coast deer MAYBE, but if a one-hit kill is even doubtful, the rule in hunting is: don't.

WallySparx
08-06-2006, 9:50 PM
a friend of mine's got a pc9, great gun. i plan on getting one myself sometime in the not-too-distant future. only thing i ever really noticed is that lighter loads result in stovepipes from time to time. also, i'd imagine you'd have to really close in with something like a pc9 if you were to hunt with it; i just don't see putting in a really precise shot beyond 50 yds.

phatgranny
08-06-2006, 10:08 PM
Glad it sounds good! But what is stovepiping? And by lighter loads do you mean how heavy the bullet is; or if its P, +P, or +P+?

What do you think I should go for with this gun? Just rabbits, or is their anything in between rabits and deer size-wise (in California).

Thanks!

ohsmily
08-06-2006, 10:08 PM
Sure, with the right shot, you would be able to down a deer. BUT, I believe that you aren't allowed to hunt deer with 9mm. There are specific caliber requirements for rifle and handgun shooting (or a handgun caliber like the 9mm). You will come across these when you take your hunter's safety course and get your hunting license.
***EDIT*** I just read through the regs (quickly) and it appears that there is no specific restriction against using 9mm rounds on a deer. It just has to be "soft nose" or "expanding bullets". But, 9mm is not an appropriate round for hunting deer.

Even if it were legal, I do not think it would be ethical to go deer hunting with a 9mm. You run a big risk of wounding the animal, but not enough to take it down and you may never be able to track it depending on how far it runs.

phatgranny
08-06-2006, 10:17 PM
Thanks for all the advice. Seeing as the whole deer-hunting with this PC9 is a moot point, I opened a new thread on suggestions for what to hunt. I appreciate your time.

This is all totally new to me, but its nice to find supportive people who can lend a hand.

VeryCoolCat
08-06-2006, 10:46 PM
9mm would be underkill on a deer. That sucker will take right off.

If it can't take down a person in one shot, I highly doubt it will take down a medium sized deer let alone a full on buck.

It would be like shooting a golden retreiver with a 22.

tenpercentfirearms
08-06-2006, 11:04 PM
I would argue that a 9mm is not overkill for varmints, but rather underkill. A 9mm round has far much less energy than any varmint size caliber round. A .223 will out perform a 9mm anyday. Shoot, I shoot squirrels with 110 grain V-max out of a .308. Talk about over kill.

maschronic
08-07-2006, 12:21 AM
I would argue that a 9mm is not overkill for varmints, but rather underkill. A 9mm round has far much less energy than any varmint size caliber round. A .223 will out perform a 9mm anyday. Shoot, I shoot squirrels with 110 grain V-max out of a .308. Talk about over kill.



to me, no such thing as over kill. just want to be sure you killed it as quickly as possible. :D

metalhead357
08-07-2006, 6:42 AM
9mm would be underkill on a deer. That sucker will take right off.

Shot placement, Shot placement,
Shot placement, Shot placement,
Shot placement, Shot placement,
Shot placement, Shot placement,:p

While the 9 aint alllllll that decent of a round~ think about it guys- many deer have been taken with lever-action .38's which aint all that much different ballistically. Yea, they're chambered for the .357 but some have been taken with .38's as well................. all probably well withing 70 yards.

So, in short- """"""Could""""" one use it....yes

SHOULD one use it on deer? I hope your middle name is either deadeye, scout, sniper, or something of the sort! Short of that- go bigger!

As for game "between" rabbit and deer; there's some- coyote, raccon, Pig (ok, ok...the younger ones), and a few others dependant on your location; peruse the DFG website............

Trempel
08-07-2006, 8:44 AM
I wouldn't trust 9mm to kill anything deer-sized or bigger.
Agreed, the 9mm really lacks energy and range to be of any worth as a hunting round, even out of a carbine.

Having said that, I have a PC-9 with regular rifle sights and it's a ton of fun as a plinker and is very easy to shoot well. Inside 50 yards it could also be a pretty decent defensive carbine.

blkA4alb
08-07-2006, 10:25 AM
9mm for pig? Ha, if you want to get maimed or killed. My buddy carries his 44 magnum as his back up if the rifle round doesn't take it out and it charges.

Original poster, I assume that your parents are getting this since legally you can't. Why not start with something like a 10/22? Why the PC9 for a first gun? Oh and stovepipes are where the bolt closes on the fired casing making it stick up and out the side of then gun like a ¨stovepipe¨. Glad to see a new prospective shooter, have you ever shot a gun?

rick_in_lb
08-07-2006, 4:08 PM
A 9mm underkill:confused: Don't tell Uncle Sam, he swears by them for our Soldiers!:rolleyes:

M. Sage
08-07-2006, 6:26 PM
A 9mm underkill:confused: Don't tell Uncle Sam, he swears by them for our Soldiers!:rolleyes:

Don't forget they have to use ball, and hunters have to use soft point or hollow point.

What's called cruel in one is called humane in the other.. and vice versa.

metalhead357
08-07-2006, 11:14 PM
A 9mm underkill:confused: Don't tell Uncle Sam, he swears by them for our Soldiers!:rolleyes:

My thoughts exactly. It's a round that's unfortunately killed litterally thousdands of people in just the two big wars~ and thousands more in streets during peacetime in the hands of BG's, police and civi's too. It aint no 'underkill' round......... and if it works on the planet's most dangerous creature (humans:D ) then it will work for deer~ again, most of "it" has to do with shot placement and distance.

Again; it WILL work, but there are certainly better choices if you want the "versitile" rounds for hunting......

ts
08-08-2006, 12:12 AM
the only advantange i see in having this gun is being able to shoot it at an indoor range.

M. Sage
08-08-2006, 6:51 PM
:rolleyes: The point isn't whether it CAN kill a deer. You can kill a deer with a .22.

Half the point is that not every shot will be perfectly placed, especially with a first-time hunter.

The other half is that you want any animal you're hunting to die ASAP, not out of danger to yourself, but because the poor thing shouldn't suffer. Yes, I said the poor animal. Before the flames roar, I've hunted, and will again. I just don't like tomorrow's dinner to suffer when I can do something about it (like use a real rifle or a shotgun instead of something in 9mm.)

For killing people, it might not be underkill. But then, most deer hunters will tell you that you shouldn't take another popular "people" caliber against deer. Yes, .223 is too weak, too.

Rule of thumb (the one I was taught anyway): If it's not as powerful as .30-30, it's not powerful enough for deer.

Trempel
08-08-2006, 11:31 PM
A 9mm underkill:confused: Don't tell Uncle Sam, he swears by them for our Soldiers!:rolleyes:
Killing people and hunting wild animals are two different things from what I understand. My knowledge of both is purely academic, since I've never killed either (except for finishing off a half-chewed mouse).
From what I understand, animal phisiology is quite different. A 200-pound human does not equal the same strength and physical capability of a 200-pound deer. Wild game is much tougher than soft, fragile humans. I've personally seen a small doe get hit at about 50mph by a Volvo (not driven by me) and she was up, running and out of sight before the car came to a stop. There was a chunk of bone and bloody flesh about the size of my fist stuck in the grill, but she still ran off like crazy. No human would likely be walking, probably ever, after a hit like that.
Large mamals, including deer are very different from humans in their capacity for strength and adrenaline. You could kill a deer with a 9mm, but you're risking letting it die a slow death after you loose it in the woods.

FWIW, the 9mm is my favorite handgun round and I'm very comfortable in keeping it for defense... against the two-legged creatures. :)

metalhead357
08-09-2006, 12:30 AM
Well... sorry to burst everyone's bubble but my hunting buddy and I have a friend in Idaho that poped TWO deer this year with a beretta 9mm PISTOL inside of 20 feet both times. We're not even talking carbines here~ as he states it, one ran for all of 10 yards and dropped, the other dropped where he shot it; both were 3 pointers. Both shot with Federal HP's........ Both deer apparently (and litterally) wandered right into camp:eek:

The original question was COULD it be done; it has...many times, so back to the "should it be done" with a 9? Well phatgranny as you can see there's a myriad of answers~ but I do think all of us are in agreement that a poor shot (of whatever caliber) is a piss poor thing to do to an animal......

All that said~ same hunting buddy I first mentioned has a great saying; "Its always easy to spend OTHER people's money"....

Its your cash, its sounding like your first gun; make the most of it~ think long and hard about it~ and above all, in whatever you decide...practice till it hurts both arm and wallet...then practice some more-- THEN go hunting.

Best of luck and let us know what YOU decide~ after all, it is you that has to live with that choice unless/until another weapon can be procured if you dont like it.............

phatgranny
08-09-2006, 7:43 AM
Hey guys, thanks for all of your advice and support. I am EXTREMELY new in the field of guns, only having shot a .22 rifle, a colt woodsman pistol, a colt pocket mustang .380, and my dad's H&K P7M8. This carbine will indeed be my first gun, and I intend to practise frequently.

As for hunting, my father also owns a .308 and a .3006, which from your comments is a far superior hunting rifle. To this end, once I complete my hunter's safety course, I expect I will use on of those instead.

Again, thanks for all your support to a newbie in the field!

~Phatgranny

M. Sage
08-09-2006, 5:48 PM
Hey guys, thanks for all of your advice and support. I am EXTREMELY new in the field of guns, only having shot a .22 rifle, a colt woodsman pistol, a colt pocket mustang .380, and my dad's H&K P7M8. This carbine will indeed be my first gun, and I intend to practise frequently.

As for hunting, my father also owns a .308 and a .3006, which from your comments is a far superior hunting rifle. To this end, once I complete my hunter's safety course, I expect I will use on of those instead.

Again, thanks for all your support to a newbie in the field!

~Phatgranny

Those would be perfect hunting rifles for deer and pigs.

Have fun with the Ruger, though. Sounds like a lot of fun!