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View Full Version : Wow was the Mosin-Nagant


jackandblood
01-06-2011, 12:48 AM
The most unwieldy standard issue rifle of ww2 or what. I kinda want to get one from big5 just to manuever around the house. Figure if you get handy with that thing, you'd do real well in CQC.

pingpong
01-06-2011, 12:53 AM
The M38/44 aren't too bad.

rojocorsa
01-06-2011, 1:03 AM
Two words:

Mosin Pistol

http://s52.radikal.ru/i135/0906/a0/6778a8f6c0b8.jpg

That's the real one, the other one that one tends to see on the Internets is supposedly a photoshop, according to the firearm blog.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/05/mosin-nagant-rifle-converted-into-a-pistol/

Turo
01-06-2011, 1:27 AM
The most unwieldy standard issue rifle of ww2 or what. I kinda want to get one from big5 just to manuever around the house. Figure if you get handy with that thing, you'd do real well in CQC.

My 91/30 isn't unwieldly, with the bayonet on it's a little long for handling indoors, but outdoors it's just fine.

You've got to remember, the Ruskies that carried these were real men, bred to kill and fight. It's a rifle not a carbine, those have only recently become popular. When you fought in mountains and outdoor terrain, a large rifle was no issue. Now armies have to have guns that are short and maneuverable inside buildings, but the Mosin wasn't built for that.

_Z_
01-06-2011, 1:35 AM
Two words:

Mosin Pistol

http://s52.radikal.ru/i135/0906/a0/6778a8f6c0b8.jpg

That's the real one, the other one that one tends to see on the Internets is supposedly a photoshop, according to the firearm blog.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/05/mosin-nagant-rifle-converted-into-a-pistol/

how would you ever work the bolt on that? I would think it would be pretty hard to actually use for more than one shot

Milsurp Collector
01-06-2011, 1:42 AM
Wow was the Mosin-Nagant the most unwieldy standard issue rifle of ww2 or what?

It wasn't. The Mosin-Nagant 91/30 was 123.2cm (48.5") long. The Japanese Arisaka Type 38 was 128.0cm (50") long. The average height of a World War II Japanese soldier was 5'3" so the Type 38 must have seemed really long.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2u6cr5f.jpg

Anchors
01-06-2011, 2:44 AM
Dude I always think about that holder milsurp rifles.
I'm like "these guys fought, ran, walked, slept, lived with these rifles 24/7 and I get tired of holding this thing about 10 minutes".

Talk about tough.

Alex$
01-06-2011, 7:38 AM
Back then the average conscript soldier came from a farm and was used to manual labor. Before the advent of computers men actually worked hard at making a living. Carrying a 10 pound rifle with an attached screwdriver/meat skewer/tent stake wasn't a big deal, it was just how a soldier soldiered.

Mosin Nagants were sighted in at 300 meters, having a longer barrel is an advantage. After Stalingrad armies learned that a carbine length firearm was needed with an intermediate cartridge.

Alex$
01-06-2011, 7:47 AM
how would you ever work the bolt on that? I would think it would be pretty hard to actually use for more than one shot

working a short barreled MN isn't bad, it also doesn't have much recoil either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNFsUvh078I

Flintlock Tom
01-06-2011, 8:10 AM
Regarding that MN pistol: I'm having trouble visualizing how you would hold it while hammering the bolt with your 2x4.
:chris:

OHOD
01-06-2011, 8:38 AM
Shooting the MN SBR

rNFsUvh078I

mauser98k
01-06-2011, 10:01 AM
It wasn't. The Mosin-Nagant 91/30 was 123.2cm (48.5") long. The Japanese Arisaka Type 38 was 128.0cm (50") long. The average height of a World War II Japanese soldier was 5'3" so the Type 38 must have seemed really long.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2u6cr5f.jpg

i have a pre-war Type 99 long rifle that's the same length. i bet the Japanese soldiers were happy when they cut 6" off the total length for the standard Type 99 :p

Barabas
01-06-2011, 11:54 AM
with the bayonet on it's a little long for handling indoors

I have holes in my ceiling too. :D

Barabas
01-06-2011, 11:56 AM
Regarding that MN pistol: I'm having trouble visualizing how you would hold it while hammering the bolt with your 2x4.
:chris:

They didn't use full charges in the pistols. There was a lot of kitchen table reloading with match heads and celluloid.

sevensix2x51
01-06-2011, 12:02 PM
I thought they were long so a soldier could skewer a cavalryman while mounted. The rifles were shortened after horses were no longer on the battlefield. Am I way off base here?

Flyin Brian
01-06-2011, 12:19 PM
I thought they were long so a soldier could skewer a cavalryman while mounted. The rifles were shortened after horses were no longer on the battlefield. Am I way off base here?

The definition of Dragoon is "mounted infantry" so it is my understanding that they shortened the M91 infantry rifle a few inches so it would be easier to handle on horseback and called it the dragoon rifle. Many years later when they decided to only make 1 rifle for all troops, the dragoon length eventually won out as the preferred barrel length and that's what length they used for the 91-30.

reidnez
01-06-2011, 2:02 PM
I thought they were long so a soldier could skewer a cavalryman while mounted. The rifles were shortened after horses were no longer on the battlefield. Am I way off base here?

Partly, yes, but the long barrels persisted long after horses disappeared from the battlefield because military strategists at the time still clung to the idea of whole companies standing shoulder-to-shoulder, firing nice orderly synchronized vollies at outrageous ranges--basically, you're aiming at area targets (ever wonder why the crappy barrel sights on old milsurps adjust to a laughable 1500-2000 meters?)

Naturally, you want a long barrel to milk as much velocity as possible out of cartridge, so that you can engage targets at 2,000 meters :rolleyes:

Twoodland
01-06-2011, 3:45 PM
Moist Nuggets(yeah that's what me and my friends call em) are soo much fun. the 91/30 is a tad ridiculous but i have the carbine which is actually nice, it's lighter than my ar hahaha

Cowboy T
01-06-2011, 4:19 PM
EEZ NOTHINK RIDIKULUUS ABOUT GLORIOUS VINTOVKA MOSINA 91/30, COMRADE!!!! I REPORT YOU TO KGB!! NOT CALLED KGB ANYMORE? NOT MATTER! I STILL REPORT YOU TO KGB!!!

:D

Actually, I don't fine 91/30's unwieldy at all (might have something to do with being over 6ft tall), and I appreciate the extra barrel length to get the most velocity out of the cartridge. There's also less muzzle flash than in the carbine since you're still burning the powder in the barrel. But the carbine's muzzle flash does look pretty darn cool.

Besides, I thought they were called Moose Nuggets? I'm sure they've taken their fair share of moose over in northern Europe.

mosinnagantm9130
01-06-2011, 4:43 PM
You think the 91/30 is unwieldy? Try an M91 and it's 52" length.:D

Haggar85
01-06-2011, 4:51 PM
Every thing of that era was really long. German French and so on. It is just a rifle that fits a method of thinking. Not the best for room clearing but i would not say unwieldy.The Russians did retake Stalingrad with 91/30s being the most common on the battle field. also the Russian method of thinking in urban environments was "where ever you go, a grenade goes in front of you." in theory with this logic it would not matter how long your gun was, your enemy is either dead or hears bells ringing the grenade you just threw in the room.

jackandblood
01-06-2011, 10:00 PM
Heh the question kinda formed a few days after I watched Enemy at the Gates. I've held one at big5 and thought, this would be fantastic for actual biomechanics type workout (as opposed to simply lifting, try to hold a low leg straining posture for as long as I can). Then your black rifler and carbines will feel like nothing.

I was impressed with how well the actors handled the long rifle in the numerous interior movement shots. Course they could've been airsoft or something.

mosinnagantm9130
01-06-2011, 10:12 PM
Heh the question kinda formed a few days after I watched Enemy at the Gates. I've held one at big5 and thought, this would be fantastic for actual biomechanics type workout (as opposed to simply lifting, try to hold a low leg straining posture for as long as I can). Then your black rifler and carbines will feel like nothing.

I was impressed with how well the actors handled the long rifle in the numerous interior movement shots. Course they could've been airsoft or something.

That I doubt. In the suicide charge scene, the Germans have RC K98's, and in the beginning of the movie the M91 is clearly D&T for a PU scope.

Stryfe76
01-07-2011, 12:01 AM
I have holes in my ceiling too. :D

Lol I thought I was the only one who did that!

Howie44
01-07-2011, 12:18 AM
That I doubt. In the suicide charge scene, the Germans have RC K98's, and in the beginning of the movie the M91 is clearly D&T for a PU scope.

So I'm not the only one who noticed that about the M91 the were shooting the wolf with? I love that movie. I went and bought a $49 M44 at big five the day after I saw it, and have had Mosinitus ever since.

Cato
01-07-2011, 12:32 AM
Dude I always think about that holder milsurp rifles.
I'm like "these guys fought, ran, walked, slept, lived with these rifles 24/7 and I get tired of holding this thing about 10 minutes".

Talk about tough.

Back in 1998 I was in Navy OCS in Pensacola. We weren't issued M16s; rather we were issued M1 Garands with cut barrels. I was shocked at how heavy that thing was. I thought I was fit at the time running and hitting the college gym a couple times a week. I guess I was working a different set of muscle groups. But after a few weeks you get used to the weight: even the shortbodies. Afterall it's just about 10lbs or so.

Anchors
01-07-2011, 2:54 PM
Back in 1998 I was in Navy OCS in Pensacola. We weren't issued M16s; rather we were issued M1 Garands with cut barrels. I was shocked at how heavy that thing was. I thought I was fit at the time running and hitting the college gym a couple times a week. I guess I was working a different set of muscle groups. But after a few weeks you get used to the weight: even the shortbodies. Afterall it's just about 10lbs or so.

Yeah.
It just seems using it repeatedly and under pressure would be extra taxing.
Imagine carrying that thing around in a firefight and while someone is shooting an MP40 at you trying to work the rough bolt on your mosin that was just pumped out of Tula two weeks ago in a hurried fashion.
Much respect for the Russians of WWII.

Mofo-Kang
01-07-2011, 7:11 PM
Imagine carrying that thing around in a firefight and while someone is shooting an MP40 at you trying to work the rough bolt on your mosin that was just pumped out of Tula two weeks ago in a hurried fashion.
Much respect for the Russians of WWII.

I think mostly they died. Them and the guy or two behind them. Then the guy behind THAT guy killed the German with the MP-44 as he was struggling to swap magazines with frostbitten fingers. :)

rojocorsa
01-07-2011, 8:35 PM
That's why you don't take on dudes with MP-40s head on. You hide in bombed out rubble and you urban guerrilla snipe their a_s, a la Zaitsev.


Conversely, you can clear out bombed rubbled buildings with Pa-Pa-Sha.

Dr.Mauser
01-08-2011, 12:23 AM
Or grab a nice little SVT38 haha