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Pvtryan
01-05-2011, 10:24 AM
What are the advantages and disadvantages of copper plated and just lead
.22lr ? Would you rather use plated or not?

jackandblood
01-05-2011, 5:13 PM
Im not aware of any disadvantages. Typically high- hyper velocity rds are plated as copper has a low coefficient of friction. Non plated tend to use a waxy covering so the lead wont oxidize and so you're not handling bare lead when loading. match grade ammo meant to stay subsonic for accuracy purposes are typically not copper washed.

WDE91
01-05-2011, 5:14 PM
I do agree with the above ^^^

rojocorsa
01-05-2011, 5:35 PM
It makes sense for HV rounds. Who wants to get lead fouling, right?

dangerranger
01-08-2011, 10:12 AM
I dont use copper plated in my guns and dont have to clean out copper fouling from my barrels. I actually have only one gun that shoots hyper velosity well so I dont normally buy them. it also shoots plain lead well. the only up side I can think of is that without any exposed lube they wont collect dust or grit. DR

Izzy43
01-08-2011, 3:15 PM
All the coatings on .22 ammo is a lubricant, whether a copper wash or some type of waxy material. There are no plain uncoated .22 ammos and under the coating they are all lead except for the new non-lead stuff. Never gonna get copper fouling in a .22 although there is a possibily of lead build up in the chamber which contributes to that awful cold barrel first shot flyer in some rifles. The coatings are not there to prevent contact with the lead or to prevent corrosion of the lead. Its there as a lubricant as the bullet travels down the barrel.

jackandblood
01-08-2011, 5:53 PM
I fired a single shot of winchester non leaded, (tin it said). hyper velocity and busted a 9mm hole through 6-7mm thick 6061 aluminum (spare heatsinks). I thought it was pretty damn awesome.

I know a least some not necessarily significant lead fouling occurs.
CB low velocity through a 4.75 " barrel, only 12 shots, and almost debris or fine dirt like stuff in there. Course that's a specialty round only uses primer as propellant, but i think it may be relevant especially for sub sonic through a rifle length barrel.

Boltz
01-08-2011, 10:09 PM
Good info guys, learn something new everyday :)

9mmlaw
01-09-2011, 7:28 AM
I have been to indoor ranges that will not allow non cooper plated rounds. If you buy them make sure you can shoot them at your range.

Izzy43
01-09-2011, 9:22 AM
I have been to indoor ranges that will not allow non cooper plated rounds. If you buy them make sure you can shoot them at your range.

Is that centerfire, rimfire or both? Just curious.

jackandblood
01-09-2011, 6:36 PM
I think both. The indoor range in City of Industry wouldn't let me shoot CCI Blazer. The indoor range in Brea allows it. They are also more professional and better facilities.

c good
01-09-2011, 6:53 PM
I shoot only copper washed ammo in all of my .22 LR firearms. Maybe because it tends to be a little better ammo it runs more reliably, and is easier to clean afterwards. Not direct science, just my observation over the last 46 years. HTH c good

Tythagoras
01-10-2011, 9:15 AM
I avoid copper plated .22 ammo whenever possible. The copper deposits it leaves are more difficult to clean, and with time, cause degradation of precision. I've shot cases of ordinary lubed ammo without cleaning the bore and the last group was no bigger than the 3rd. (my barrels tend to need a few shots after cleaning to settle) Same results with 5 barrels in 4 rifles, ranging from cheap to fairly expensive barrels.

High-end target ammo is almost never plated. I don't know if that's a hint, but they shoot better than any other (for me), and they might know something I don't.

As has been said many times in many other threads, each barrel is a law unto itself. Experiment, analyze, experiment some more, and go with the ammunition that you feel gives you the best performance per dollar, or whatever metric makes you happy.

SK standard plus or Wolf match target is my preferred ammo, if you want to try it. It's about midway in price between the cheap stuff and the expensive cartridges. Most rifles seem to shoot well with it. I can't say for pistols yet, I don't have the skill with my pistol to tell to tell good from bad ammo.

Ledbetter
01-10-2011, 10:42 AM
Copper does not deposit in .22 barrels. Not enough heat. Try to get a blue patch cleaning your .22. Just the same, the only plated rounds I use are MiniMags and Stingers.

Match Grade ammo is lead because it seals better in the rifling. I also prefer Wolf and SK, but plink with Blazer or Winchester.

Primer only rounds leave gritty residue because primer material is grittier and more abrasive than gunpowder residue.

Go here:

www.rimfirecentral.com

thunderbolt
01-10-2011, 5:01 PM
I was under the impression that a copper jacket was better both in terms of accuracy and cleaning afterwords but maybe I'm wrong. I have a bunch of lead stuff but I avoid using it for those reasons. The biggest complaint I have is finding copper rounds in 40gr. They all seem to be 36gr HP or 38gr HP.

jackandblood
01-11-2011, 6:48 AM
IDK but all the super match stuff (costs 30 cents and up per round) seem to be wax covered lead. maybe the even tiny tolerance change in copper wash is the reason? I wouldn't hesitate to shoot your lead rounds. Really, as I typically do a light cleaning after every range session, including a check of barrel condition. I dont recall any difference in fouling from the bulk copper washed winchesters and the bulk blazers.

9mmlaw
01-11-2011, 7:17 AM
Is that centerfire, rimfire or both? Just curious.

Both.

Tythagoras
01-11-2011, 7:45 AM
Copper does not deposit in .22 barrels. Not enough heat. Try to get a blue patch cleaning your .22. Just the same, the only plated rounds I use are MiniMags and Stingers.

Cleaning copper in rimfire barrels was my first use of Butch's Bore Shine. Came out very blue. Heat has nothing to do with it. I can rub a penny on steel and get copper rubbing off. After 2000 rounds of copper plated projectiles through my rimfire barrels, they don't shoot as well. Doesn't happen with wax lubed bullets.

Note that it doesn't apply to copper (or brass) plated bullets that are also lubed. I forgot to mention that in the first post, kind of an important detail, sorry. CCI Minimags and Stingers are (or at least used to be) lubed over the plating, and don't generally leave any extra fouling. Compare with Rem Golden Bullets for contrast.


Go here:

www.rimfirecentral.com

I second the recommendation, been a member there for years.

mif_slim
01-11-2011, 8:00 AM
It makes sense for HV rounds. Who wants to get lead fouling, right?

Well I find that my cast lead can take 1400~fps without gas check, so that means HV (1200fps) lead bullets should not create leading yet.

wu_dot_com
01-11-2011, 8:30 AM
Cleaning copper in rimfire barrels was my first use of Butch's Bore Shine. Came out very blue. Heat has nothing to do with it. I can rub a penny on steel and get copper rubbing off. After 2000 rounds of copper plated projectiles through my rimfire barrels, they don't shoot as well. Doesn't happen with wax lubed bullets.

Note that it doesn't apply to copper (or brass) plated bullets that are also lubed. I forgot to mention that in the first post, kind of an important detail, sorry. CCI Minimags and Stingers are (or at least used to be) lubed over the plating, and don't generally leave any extra fouling. Compare with Rem Golden Bullets for contrast.



I second the recommendation, been a member there for years.

the general recommendation for copper fouling for .22 is to stop cleaning it. from a clean bore it tend to progress from clean to dirty to clean again. i guess what happened is that eventually you buildup a thin layer of evenly distributed copper and it acts as a smooth lubricating surface.

the same cannot be said for lead or wax buildup.

personally i also dont know if leaving the copper buildup will cause corrosion either.

Tythagoras
01-11-2011, 9:03 AM
the general recommendation for copper fouling for .22 is to stop cleaning it. from a clean bore it tend to progress from clean to dirty to clean again. i guess what happened is that eventually you buildup a thin layer of evenly distributed copper and it acts as a smooth lubricating surface.

the same cannot be said for lead or wax buildup.

personally i also dont know if leaving the copper buildup will cause corrosion either.

There's a great many opinions on cleaning rimfire bores. I suspect each will reflect the ammunition and intended use of the respective firearms. Many benchrest shooters will clean after every match, or even after every relay. But many of those same benchresters will say that they don't get the best groups with the match ammunition until they shoot a few, but they get sighters. Rimfire hunters don't get sighters, so they may prefer to clean before a range trip, to keep the bore seasoned for that first, critical shot.

Still others may recommend never cleaning. I fall in between, I don't notice a falloff in precision until I've run about 6000 wax lubed bullets through the bore, on any of my rifles. I clean every 1-2 thousand cartridges, unless I switch ammunition frequently, then I clean after the range trip and season the barrel again the next outing.

I don't think copper will usually attract any more corrosion than wax will. Any moisture would have to get through the copper before attacking the steel of the barrel, assuming it was evenly distributed. (might be a bad assumption) My girlfriend's rifle was stored improperly and was badly rusted when it was given to her, but the bore wasn't cleaned after the last outing and was rust-free after cleaning, and it shoots great, despite it's shabby appearance. (my cold bluing skills leave much to be desired :()

I believe we may have drifted a bit from the intent of this thread. If anyone wants to debate cleaning, it might be proper to start a new one.

asme
01-11-2011, 9:15 AM
I use copper plated in semi-autos. I find that they feed better imo.