PDA

View Full Version : Question for the day here


jemaddux
08-04-2006, 3:27 PM
So was sitting here checking a few things and came across this:

Flash suppressors, and barrel shrouds were seen as 'military' features, and were on the list of Federally-defined features that, provided enough features were also present on the semi-automatic rifle, then the rifle was defined as illegal, if manufactured after the effective date of the Federal assault weapons ban that went into effect in 1994 in the United States. Muzzle brakes, on the other hand, were ruled "legal" by the BATF. This meant, in practice, muzzle brakes had to be certified by the BATF to prevent end-users from accidentally violating the law and installing a device that could later be found to be defined legally as being more of a flash suppressor than a muzzle brake, even if marketed and sold as a muzzle brake, if incidental flash suppression was deemed to be 'significant' by the BATF. The Federal laws governing this sunsetted in 2004, and are no longer of concern, except in those few jurisdictions in which specific state laws still retain certain provisions of the earlier and now defunct Federal law.

Now SB23 states:

“flash suppressor” means any device designed, intended, or that functions to
perceptibly reduce or redirect muzzle flash from the shooter’s field of vision.

So as long as I have a Muzzle Break (check picture below)

QCB .223 Muzzle Break
1693

and I didn't have a pistol grip I would be legal correct?
Reason I am asking is some people try and use Flash Suppressor, Muzzle Break and Compensators as all the same animals.

Flash Suppressor- Reduces flash in field of vision also making vis of firearm more difficult.
Muzzle Break- Helps preventing a larger kick from firearm.
Compensator- Helps in perventing muzzle of firearm rising during firing.

Now, if I am correct they would all be different but how does everyone else look at this.

Just asking opinions here:D

C.G.
08-04-2006, 3:43 PM
So was sitting here checking a few things and came across this:

Flash suppressors, and barrel shrouds were seen as 'military' features, and were on the list of Federally-defined features that, provided enough features were also present on the semi-automatic rifle, then the rifle was defined as illegal, if manufactured after the effective date of the Federal assault weapons ban that went into effect in 1994 in the United States. Muzzle brakes, on the other hand, were ruled "legal" by the BATF. This meant, in practice, muzzle brakes had to be certified by the BATF to prevent end-users from accidentally violating the law and installing a device that could later be found to be defined legally as being more of a flash suppressor than a muzzle brake, even if marketed and sold as a muzzle brake, if incidental flash suppression was deemed to be 'significant' by the BATF. The Federal laws governing this sunsetted in 2004, and are no longer of concern, except in those few jurisdictions in which specific state laws still retain certain provisions of the earlier and now defunct Federal law.

Now SB23 states:

“flash suppressor” means any device designed, intended, or that functions to
perceptibly reduce or redirect muzzle flash from the shooter’s field of vision.

So as long as I have a Muzzle Break (check picture below)

QCB .223 Muzzle Break
1693

and I didn't have a pistol grip I would be legal correct?
Reason I am asking is some people try and use Flash Suppressor, Muzzle Break and Compensators as all the same animals.

Flash Suppressor- Reduces flash in field of vision also making vis of firearm more difficult.
Muzzle Break- Helps preventing a larger kick from firearm.
Compensator- Helps in perventing muzzle of firearm rising during firing.

Now, if I am correct they would all be different but how does everyone else look at this.

Just asking opinions here:D

If you have a brake, you can have a detachable mag as long as you have no other "evil" features such as a pistol grip, collapsible stock, minimum barrel lenght 16" and the rife must meet overall minimum length requirement of 30."

bwiese
08-04-2006, 4:01 PM
A brake that offers no reduction in illuminancy is not a flash suppressor.

Therefore such a device is totally irrelevant to 12276.1 generic AW definition.

An OLL can have any muzzle device as long as it's not a flash hider or GL.

VeryCoolCat
08-04-2006, 4:10 PM
and I didn't have a pistol grip I would be legal correct?
Reason I am asking is some people try and use Flash Suppressor, Muzzle Break and Compensators as all the same animals.
Just asking opinions here:D


You got the idea but replace pistol grip with Detachable Magazine.

The best way to remember SB23 is to think.

DETACHABLE MAGAZINE= FUN = NO FUN MODS
FIXED MAGAZINE = NO FUN = ALL THE FUN MODS

I believe the law is generally to limit your enjoyment. You cant have TOO MUCH fun.. so they made it if you have the enjoyment of a detachable magazine you cant have a flash supressor, pistol grip, or tacticool telescopic stock and vice versa.

JPglee1
08-04-2006, 4:11 PM
A brake that offers no reduction in illuminancy is not a flash suppressor.

Therefore such a device is totally irrelevant to 12276.1 generic AW definition.

An OLL can have any muzzle device as long as it's not a flash hider or GL.

So who/what defines a flash hider?

I was shooting a friends registered XM-177 clone and it had a 24" long fireball right out the front, the "flash hider" obviously wasn't....

Is there some kind of mandate about the amount of reduction?? I mean seriously, is it a situation where if its marketed as a FH than it must be one, even if the flash is NOT decreased (and maybe increased)

Seems to me 12 reasonable jurors would see a device that allows a 24" flame out the front is NOT a flash hider.


But Im sure you'd never get 12 reasonable jurors. You'd get hand picked minorities and old liberals to make sure you were hung hahaha


J

jemaddux
08-04-2006, 4:28 PM
So who/what defines a flash hider?

I was shooting a friends registered XM-177 clone and it had a 24" long fireball right out the front, the "flash hider" obviously wasn't....

Is there some kind of mandate about the amount of reduction?? I mean seriously, is it a situation where if its marketed as a FH than it must be one, even if the flash is NOT decreased (and maybe increased)

Seems to me 12 reasonable jurors would see a device that allows a 24" flame out the front is NOT a flash hider.

But Im sure you'd never get 12 reasonable jurors. You'd get hand picked minorities and old liberals to make sure you were hung hahaha
J


I guess this is why I am asking the question. I have a private range I go and shoot at. This morning we were shooting and I noticed that even the Muzzle Break would redirect some of the flash and would even reduce it some.

Now, who is to say what the percentage of redirect or reduction there is to be before it is called a Flash Hider?

Also as with the first post, ATF has done its own studies and has decided what was what, does that mean DOJ goes by what the ATF had decided or did DOJ come up with its own studies that I haven't been able to find yet?

I want to do a little more competitive shooting. So what I was thinking is that going to and from matches I would just remove the grip. Once at the match I would put it on and then leaving the match I would remove it for storage and transport.:D Now, depending on what DOJ has to say about a Muzzle Break compaired to the Flash Hider is the deciding factor if I have an evil feature or not.

Ki77B0die5
08-04-2006, 8:52 PM
I know this is off the subject but can someone help me find the cal guns group on yahoo so i can post up my rifle. a direct link will help. Once again i apologize that this is off the subject.

C.G.
08-04-2006, 9:20 PM
I guess this is why I am asking the question. I have a private range I go and shoot at. This morning we were shooting and I noticed that even the Muzzle Break would redirect some of the flash and would even reduce it some.

Now, who is to say what the percentage of redirect or reduction there is to be before it is called a Flash Hider?

Also as with the first post, ATF has done its own studies and has decided what was what, does that mean DOJ goes by what the ATF had decided or did DOJ come up with its own studies that I haven't been able to find yet?

I want to do a little more competitive shooting. So what I was thinking is that going to and from matches I would just remove the grip. Once at the match I would put it on and then leaving the match I would remove it for storage and transport.:D Now, depending on what DOJ has to say about a Muzzle Break compaired to the Flash Hider is the deciding factor if I have an evil feature or not.


Here's a review of what is a flash hider and what is a brake:
http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/muzzledevices.msnw

SemiAutoSam
08-04-2006, 9:22 PM
All of this BS is why im looking for a thread protector for my barrels anyone know where I can get a 9/16L ?

adamsreeftank
08-05-2006, 12:00 AM
I want to do a little more competitive shooting. So what I was thinking is that going to and from matches I would just remove the grip. Once at the match I would put it on and then leaving the match I would remove it for storage and transport.:D Now, depending on what DOJ has to say about a Muzzle Break compaired to the Flash Hider is the deciding factor if I have an evil feature or not.

Don't forget, sometimes cops like to shoot at the matches. I wonder if any of them would have a problem with watching you commit a felony at the start of each match. Unless of course, you mean the matches are in nevada.

rocknut
08-05-2006, 9:40 AM
I'm sure that there are some of the newer style muzzel breaks that are a grey area, but if you get one of the ones that were sold on rifles back in '99/'00 you wouldn't have anything to fear. The AK74 style break for example was approved on many rifles and, from what I understand, it is very effective.

jemaddux
08-05-2006, 8:03 PM
Don't forget, sometimes cops like to shoot at the matches. I wonder if any of them would have a problem with watching you commit a felony at the start of each match. Unless of course, you mean the matches are in nevada.


Thats what is so funny about all this. It was a few cops that suggested the idea first that I just travel with it without the grip and once at the match put the grip on. The cops that I have talked to could care less if we own these things.