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veeklog
01-04-2011, 11:38 AM
I have a RAW Eagle Arms AR-15 lower that I want to send to Victor at US Adonizing to get get a new finish. The finish has never been that great, and I want to strip it down and send it to them to get a new finish. Is it legal for me to send it to them as any other firearm, or do I need to send it through a DOJ approved RAW gun-smith? The irony is that I can send off an OLL to US Adonizing without hassle, but not a RAW. Thanks for the help

Interfan
01-04-2011, 12:32 PM
US Anodizing is in Virginia, so the CA AWB and AWB permits don't apply. Federal law does, and they have an FFL. If it were me, i'd send it to them and have them refinish it. Otherwise use a local guy for gun kote, ceracoat, etc. The AWB applies only in CA to CA dealers and gunsmiths for repair issues.

A tight magwel can be opened up with a small file. Usually it is not square and just needs to be trued. This is something you can do.

Jim_KT
01-04-2011, 12:35 PM
^^^^^

Not entirely true.

CA AWB laws apply for the CA resident that is shipping the RAW.

xenophobe
01-04-2011, 2:02 PM
Umm... the way I was told to do this was to remove the features from the firearm. Ship them to the gunsmith and make sure that they do not ship it back assembled. I did this for my UMP conversion. This is what the DOJ told me back in 2004 or 2005, though I don't have any letter, it was a phone conversation. Perhaps you should write a letter and ask.

The Sauce
01-04-2011, 2:11 PM
^^ I think the problem is that Eagle Arms ARs are AW by name, not feature.

freonr22
01-04-2011, 2:15 PM
btw, I had eagle strip and refinish 3 uppers and lowers in 1992 and the came back loose/wobbly. dont know how it works today w/ stripping and replating/anodozing

CSACANNONEER
01-04-2011, 2:24 PM
I would legally trasport my personal property to another state and then just MAIL (it's perfectly legal for a non-FFL to mail long guns) it to the FFL (they HAVE to have a FFL if, they are going to work on your receiver without you being present) who will be doing the refinishing. Then, have them send your personal property back to you at an out of state address.This way, you don't have to deal with finding a FFL with a AW permit and, it's perfectly legal too.


^^ I think the problem is that Eagle Arms ARs are AW by name, not feature.

Named or by features should not make a difference. Once it is registered, it is a RAW. You can de register a "by features" gun but, once that is done, you can not re-register it again.

bohoki
01-04-2011, 4:50 PM
i tell you what i wouldnt let any of my registered guns out of my control

if it is lost in shipping you are done no more soup for you

veeklog
01-04-2011, 7:34 PM
Sort of in the same boat as you. One of my RAWs has a tight magwell that I would like opened up a bit. This RAW lower also has a poor finish and have looked at US Anodizing as an alternative.

From the CA DOJ's FAQ:

"Can I take a registered assault weapon to a gunsmith for repairs?
Yes. However, you cannot leave it with the gunsmith unless he or she holds a California Assault Weapons permit. Otherwise, you must remain with the firearm while it is being repaired. If the assault weapon must be shipped to the manufacturer for repairs, a firearms dealer with an assault weapons permit must handle the shipping."

From the Calguns FAQ:

"15. Can I ship my off-list receiver, or CA-legal gun made from such an off-list receiver, to any FFL for sale or repair? What if I decide to sell or repair such a receiver - or gun made thereof - after it’s a registered assault weapon?

If it’s an off-list lower, or a CA-legal firearm made from such a lower and which isn‘t an illegal assault weapon, it may be shipped to & from any FFL dealer.

However, if it gets “declared” or “identified” as an assault weapon while out for service, you should get your receiver/gun back as soon as possible before the mandatory 90-day registration window ends.

In order to ship or receive registered assault weapons, you must use the services of a California FFL dealer who also holds a California Assault Weapons Dealer Permit. There is, however, an exception discussed below (in this section) about Category III assault weapons.

It does not appear to matter that the address to which you ship, or receive gun back from, is inside or outside California. Are you shipping/receiving a legal, registered assault weapon? Go thru a CA FFL with an AW permit!
You may, however, transport your legal assault weapons yourself (unloaded, and in a locked case, to/from specific destinations where they are legal to be possessed) instead of shipping them. This includes travelling out of, and back into, California. If you chose to ship and receive them to another FFL while you are outside CA that is perfectly legal – as long as that state had no other laws firearms restricting these actions."

"16. Can I take my assault weapons to a local FFL dealer/gunsmith for repair?

Yes, but with some exceptions. If he has no special California Assault Weapons permit, you must be physically present near your gun at all times while he’s working on it. This means you can’t go out to lunch, or leave it overnight. (This does not apply to those California FFLs also holding a California Assault Weapons Dealer/Repair Permit)."


The CA DOJ's FAQ does not address repairs done by a third party that is not the manufacturer.

Are you going for the Type III—Hard Anodizing - MIL-A-8625 ?

Thanks for the info; looks like the lower will stay with the same finish until I find an alternative; I may strip it down and transport it to a free state, but it seems like such a hassle. If I can find someone locally in LA/OC to do the Cerakote or other finish that I may try that. I was going to have Victor do the Type III—Hard Anodizing for sure. Anyone know a DOJ approved RAW gunsmith in LA/OC?

bwiese
01-05-2011, 1:20 AM
Hey Veek,

Looks like your Eagle Arms AR15 lower is banned by name. (Haven't checked the Kasler list/flowchart, but I believe it is from the back of my mind, but would love to be proved wrong...)

While technically a listed lower may defendably not be an AW (even if registered as such) it's certainly best "not to go there" - esp. as I don't think you need professional grief/drama should something go sideways (i.e, misdirected UPS box lands at your neighbor's house, neighbor freaks out, cops get called, etc.)

As a reg'd Cat 2 (or Cat 1) AW it would have to be SHIPPED out of/back to CA by a CA FFL w/AW permit. You could however, fly it out/drive it out yourself to a plain FFL gunsmith in NV, AZ, etc. - or ship it from and back via a Mailboxes USA mailbox in, say, AZ/NV.

Now, if your gun were a registered Category 3 AW (SB23 features-ban gun), things are different: sufficient evil features can be removed and such a gun can then generally be treated as a non-AW. In these Cat 3 cases, the AW registration lets it legally 'be' an AW, but the actual configured features suite actually determines whether it *is* an AW or not. A de-featured (or BulletButton maglocked) Cat 3 registered AW can be transported, shipped and gunsmithed like an ordinary firearm.

Dreaded Claymore
01-05-2011, 10:13 AM
I'm pretty certain you mean "anodized." That means to coat it with something by including it as an anode in an electrical circuit.

I guess "adonizing" something would consist of somehow making it similar to the Greek hero Adonis, who was the half-mortal son of Aphrodite and got killed by a wild boar.

armedoffroader
01-05-2011, 10:25 AM
i tell you what i wouldnt let any of my registered guns out of my control

if it is lost in shipping you are done no more soup for you

This! If it got hung up somewhere, you'd have one hell of a time getting it back

Centurion_D
01-05-2011, 10:38 AM
i tell you what i wouldnt let any of my registered guns out of my control

if it is lost in shipping you are done no more soup for you

^^^This. I don't know if I would be able to sleep knowing my RAW's are somewhere out there and not under my supervision. If the RAW's could be replaced without hassle if lost or stolen then I might consider sending them out for work but the way the law is written us RAW owners don't have many options. God I pray this law will be struck down soon!!!

xenophobe
01-05-2011, 12:34 PM
Hey Veek,

Looks like your Eagle Arms AR15 lower is banned by name. (Haven't checked the Kasler list/flowchart, but I believe it is from the back of my mind, but would love to be proved wrong...)

While technically a listed lower may defendably not be an AW (even if registered as such) it's certainly best "not to go there" - esp. as I don't think you need professional grief/drama should something go sideways (i.e, misdirected UPS box lands at your neighbor's house, neighbor freaks out, cops get called, etc.)

As a reg'd Cat 2 (or Cat 1) AW it would have to be SHIPPED out of/back to CA by a CA FFL w/AW permit. You could however, fly it out/drive it out yourself to a plain FFL gunsmith in NV, AZ, etc. - or ship it from and back via a Mailboxes USA mailbox in, say, AZ/NV.

Now, if your gun were a registered Category 3 AW (SB23 features-ban gun), things are different: sufficient evil features can be removed and such a gun can then generally be treated as a non-AW. In these Cat 3 cases, the AW registration lets it legally 'be' an AW, but the actual configured features suite actually determines whether it *is* an AW or not. A de-featured (or BulletButton maglocked) Cat 3 registered AW can be transported, shipped and gunsmithed like an ordinary firearm.

^^^ this.

Last paragraph is what I was told to do since it was a Cat 3 AW. It was a features gun, and removing the features, even if it's still registered make it NOT an assault weapon despite being registered. Registered Cat 3 really means that it's allowed, but not necessary to have AW features and adding or removing features can make it either an AW or a CA legal configuration.

I would take Bill's advice though. I'm still playing the memory game with the laws... it's been a while since I was completely fluent with them.

veeklog
01-05-2011, 3:12 PM
Hey Veek,

Looks like your Eagle Arms AR15 lower is banned by name. (Haven't checked the Kasler list/flowchart, but I believe it is from the back of my mind, but would love to be proved wrong...)

While technically a listed lower may defendably not be an AW (even if registered as such) it's certainly best "not to go there" - esp. as I don't think you need professional grief/drama should something go sideways (i.e, misdirected UPS box lands at your neighbor's house, neighbor freaks out, cops get called, etc.)

As a reg'd Cat 2 (or Cat 1) AW it would have to be SHIPPED out of/back to CA by a CA FFL w/AW permit. You could however, fly it out/drive it out yourself to a plain FFL gunsmith in NV, AZ, etc. - or ship it from and back via a Mailboxes USA mailbox in, say, AZ/NV.

Now, if your gun were a registered Category 3 AW (SB23 features-ban gun), things are different: sufficient evil features can be removed and such a gun can then generally be treated as a non-AW. In these Cat 3 cases, the AW registration lets it legally 'be' an AW, but the actual configured features suite actually determines whether it *is* an AW or not. A de-featured (or BulletButton maglocked) Cat 3 registered AW can be transported, shipped and gunsmithed like an ordinary firearm.

Thanks to all for the sound advice, especially to you, Bill. I was hoping you would chime in with the Calguns "knowledge:D"

I have had this lower when I bought the complete rifle from Turners at the very low price of $599 USD in 1995 ; if memory serves me right, I was still a starving college student who put the rifle on layaway and paid it off over a period of three months. The only thing left is the lower since I gave away the upper and all the other parts to a close friend after I discovered Calguns. The finish always sucked, and not even close to the worst finishes I have seen on any OLL I have purchased since.

It's nice to have a RAW, nice to legally have the feature afforded to everyone esle not living in California :mad:, but I will tell you having it is a PITA a lot of times!! I can't shoot it in the desert, I have to transport it from the range to my house, I carry a copy of my registration paperwork everywhere I go, and I can't get general gunsmithing like adonizing done on my RAW w/o having to resort to other measures. I think that is why I am shooting my OLL's more because even though the ten round magazine sucks, it allows me more freedom to do things like shoot in the desert!

I am hopeful SB-23 and the other AW laws get struck down soon so everyone can have regular features such as mag releases, telescopic stocks, flash hiders, and can shoot standard capacity magazines.