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Sandman91364
01-04-2011, 10:09 AM
We all enjoy the mass of info here on Calguns on how to build a California legal AR-15 from an "off-list" lower. I'm grateful for the resources here. My close friend in New York is interested in building a New York legal AR-15 if there is such a thing. Does anyone know if this is possible, or if there is a site like this for New York? He does NOT live in New York City. He lives in the town of Chappequa in Westchester County.

yellowfin
01-04-2011, 10:16 AM
There is a site like this for New York: http://www.nyshooters.net. It's only been around for a comparatively short time, but we're growing it bit by bit.

NY's AWB is pretty easy to work with, all things considered. To have a NY compliant AR, you can go one of two routes. First, any AR with a lower receiver made before 1994 is "pre ban", which you can do pretty much anything you want with it so long as the barrel is 16" or longer. Anything after 1994 you basically have to have a fixed stock, no bayonet lug, and either a plain straight barrel or a muzzle brake/compensator permanently attached to the end, also 16" and longer overall barrel length. Also, with magazines for it all pre-94 magazines are ok, post 94 they have to be 10 rounds or less.

emcon5
01-04-2011, 10:28 AM
NY's AWB is pretty easy to work with, all things considered. To have a NY compliant AR, you can go one of two routes. First, any AR with a lower receiver made before 1994 is "pre ban", which you can do pretty much anything you want with it so long as the barrel is 16" or longer. Anything after 1994 you basically have to have a fixed stock, no bayonet lug, and either a plain straight barrel or a muzzle brake/compensator permanently attached to the end, also 16" and longer overall barrel length. Also, with magazines for it all pre-94 magazines are ok, post 94 they have to be 10 rounds or less.So basically the same as the now expired federal ban?

dfletcher
01-04-2011, 10:39 AM
There is a site like this for New York: http://www.nyshooters.net. It's only been around for a comparatively short time, but we're growing it bit by bit.

NY's AWB is pretty easy to work with, all things considered. To have a NY compliant AR, you can go one of two routes. First, any AR with a lower receiver made before 1994 is "pre ban", which you can do pretty much anything you want with it so long as the barrel is 16" or longer. Anything after 1994 you basically have to have a fixed stock, no bayonet lug, and either a plain straight barrel or a muzzle brake/compensator permanently attached to the end, also 16" and longer overall barrel length. Also, with magazines for it all pre-94 magazines are ok, post 94 they have to be 10 rounds or less.

Can pre-ban (1994) AR receivers be transferred from out of state into NY via an FFL dealer? Reason I ask is that every once in a while we get the "I don't want my RAW anymore" in CA - could the "pre-1994" AR receiver be sent to & sold in NY state? It would seem to me a pre-ban AR receiver in NY, with the ability to have evil features, would be at a premium there wheras here in CA nothing can be done with it? I suppose this would apply in CA to "named" AWs as opposed to "by configuration".

Exile Machine
01-04-2011, 10:39 AM
Anything after 1994 you basically have to have a fixed stock, no bayonet lug, and either a plain straight barrel or a muzzle brake/compensator permanently attached to the end, also 16" and longer overall barrel length. Also, with magazines for it all pre-94 magazines are ok, post 94 they have to be 10 rounds or less.

Don't forget the evil grenade launcher! :D

California has the featureless or zero-feature rifle, New York and the other Northeast AWB states have the single-feature rifle. Most shooters pick the pistol grip as their single evil feature, hence the restrictions quoted above. However, if you substitute something that's not a pistol grip (https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4&products_id=1), you can choose one of the other evil features. Our typical NY customer buys our Hammerhead stock adapter so they can keep a threaded barrel as their evil feature. This lets them experiment with different muzzle brakes. There may be some who want to substitute for a collapsible stock, bayo lug, or even a grenade launcher.

https://www.exilemachine.net/images/IMG_0197C.JPG

-Mark

freonr22
01-04-2011, 10:40 AM
tag

Sandman91364
01-04-2011, 10:47 AM
Wow! Thank you so much for all the information.

Steyr_223
01-04-2011, 10:49 AM
Good info Mark!

yellowfin
01-04-2011, 11:01 AM
Can pre-ban (1994) AR receivers be transferred from out of state into NY via an FFL dealer? Reason I ask is that every once in a while we get the "I don't want my RAW anymore" in CA - could the "pre-1994" AR receiver be sent to & sold in NY state? It would seem to me a pre-ban AR receiver in NY, with the ability to have evil features, would be at a premium there wheras here in CA nothing can be done with it? I suppose this would apply in CA to "named" AWs as opposed to "by configuration".You can sell any AR receiver to people in NY via FFL so far as I know, so long as they're not in NYC. Pre 94 receivers are indeed a valuable commodity, prices I'm hearing are around $300-400. It's a really sweet deal for CA folks who want to sell the pre-94 stuff, for sure.

dfletcher
01-04-2011, 1:27 PM
You can sell any AR receiver to people in NY via FFL so far as I know, so long as they're not in NYC. Pre 94 receivers are indeed a valuable commodity, prices I'm hearing are around $300-400. It's a really sweet deal for CA folks who want to sell the pre-94 stuff, for sure.

Interesting - I'm kind of surprised NY gun owners don't have feelers out all through NH, MW, VA, WV and such - perhaps they do. Maybe a Sacramento to Albany lifeline lets CA AWs live on when their owners don't.

A palate full of AK flats all manufactured & stamped August 1993 might be worth a few dollars in NY. Seems like a money making opportunity somewhere along the line.

CSACANNONEER
01-04-2011, 1:33 PM
So basically the same as the now expired federal ban?

Sounds like more than the federal ban. The federal ban never restricted the use of +10 round mags in new guns. It looks like NY does.

Pred@tor
01-04-2011, 1:57 PM
hmm I know a guy with two preban PWA lowers that he wouldnt part with. ;)

dwtt
01-04-2011, 2:05 PM
You can sell any AR receiver to people in NY via FFL so far as I know, so long as they're not in NYC. Pre 94 receivers are indeed a valuable commodity, prices I'm hearing are around $300-400. It's a really sweet deal for CA folks who want to sell the pre-94 stuff, for sure.

So, if someone shows up with an Olympic Arms receiver and claims it's a 1990 vintage, how does one verify it's really pre-'94? Wouldn't someone be taking on a lot of liability by assuming the receiver is pre-94 and later find out it was made in 1994 or later?
I'm not trying to argue here, but just interested in how the state or a gun owner can verify the legality of the receiver.

Pred@tor
01-04-2011, 2:09 PM
So, if someone shows up with an Olympic Arms receiver and claims it's a 1990 vintage, how does one verify it's really pre-'94? Wouldn't someone be taking on a lot of liability by assuming the receiver is pre-94 and later find out it was made in 1994 or later?
I'm not trying to argue here, but just interested in how the state or a gun owner can verify the legality of the receiver.

Serial numbers generally tell you the date from the range it was manufactured. Thats how it is for the PWAs and Olympic Arms I am not sure of but I dunno why one would wanna own one of those...

yellowfin
01-04-2011, 4:19 PM
The federal ban never restricted the use of +10 round mags in new guns. It looks like NY does.Nope, not the case. You can use pre-94 20-30+ round mags in post 94 guns without any problem. Most people do precisely that. The market is big here for pre-94 AR, AK, Glock, and Beretta mags. I need to grab up some more in fact, now that I think about it.

dfletcher
01-04-2011, 7:47 PM
So, if someone shows up with an Olympic Arms receiver and claims it's a 1990 vintage, how does one verify it's really pre-'94? Wouldn't someone be taking on a lot of liability by assuming the receiver is pre-94 and later find out it was made in 1994 or later?

I'm not trying to argue here, but just interested in how the state or a gun owner can verify the legality of the receiver.

Beats the heck out of me. What would happen if a fellow bought an AR rifle years ago, re-assembled & sold it to someone as a handgun years later? If firearm sales through an FFL with the 4473 shows "handgun" does that sale and documentation afford the buyer any protection? I think most people take the approach that if they're buying through an FFL it must be legal. It's an interesting scenario and considering that AR pistols or in NY pre-ban ARs sell for more, one that might come up from time to time.

CSACANNONEER
01-05-2011, 6:29 AM
Nope, not the case. You can use pre-94 20-30+ round mags in post 94 guns without any problem. Most people do precisely that. The market is big here for pre-94 AR, AK, Glock, and Beretta mags. I need to grab up some more in fact, now that I think about it.

Thanks for the clarification. I was just going by this:

There is a site like this for New York: http://www.nyshooters.net. It's only been around for a comparatively short time, but we're growing it bit by bit.

NY's AWB is pretty easy to work with, all things considered. To have a NY compliant AR, you can go one of two routes. First, any AR with a lower receiver made before 1994 is "pre ban", which you can do pretty much anything you want with it so long as the barrel is 16" or longer. Anything after 1994 you basically have to have a fixed stock, no bayonet lug, and either a plain straight barrel or a muzzle brake/compensator permanently attached to the end, also 16" and longer overall barrel length. Also, with magazines for it all pre-94 magazines are ok, post 94 they have to be 10 rounds or less.

bwiese
01-05-2011, 1:17 PM
Please use extreme caution in NY as to what is/is not a pistol grip or thumbhole stock, etc.

These items are formally defined in California regulatory code, and regulatory definitions have force of law, can't be randomly changed, etc. - and essentially reshape statutes.

NY may well have much weaker regulatory law and/or these items are not formally defined - then it's up to a judge to decide "but it's not a pistol grip".

People should NOT try to extrapolate what we've done here in CA without legal guidance. To the extent that NY state's AWB mimcs the expired Fed AWB, fine. But things like repairing pre-ban hicap mags in NY etc. may well have entirely different outcomes than in CA.

Exile Machine
01-05-2011, 1:57 PM
Please use extreme caution in NY as to what is/is not a pistol grip or thumbhole stock, etc.

NY may well have much weaker regulatory law and/or these items are not formally defined - then it's up to a judge to decide "but it's not a pistol grip".

People should NOT try to extrapolate what we've done here in CA without legal guidance. To the extent that NY state's AWB mimcs the expired Fed AWB, fine. But things like repairing pre-ban hicap mags in NY etc. may well have entirely different outcomes than in CA.

Good point, we do make it clear that CA law clearly defines our Hammerhead grip as "not a pistol grip" but other AWB states do not have this same definition.

We do see online vendors selling California-style magazine rebuild kits (e.g., disassembled PMAGS) into New York, not something we're comfortable with.