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View Full Version : Yet another AB962 question


Ieyasu
01-03-2011, 7:54 PM
Sorry, I'm sure this has been covered somewhere else, but I can't find it, and I'm sure I'm missing something, but after reading the bill (http://leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0951-1000/ab_962_bill_20091011_chaptered.html), I don't see where it's illegal for an Arizona resident (for example), to bring ammo into CA and transfer it to a friend.

It seems these restrictions on ammo sales apply only to vendors. And as vendor is defined in the bill, that doesn't include private individuals supplying their friends with ammunition (as long as it's not a business).

For example, if I have an out-of-state friend who visits me once a year and brings ammo along, and I pay him for it, AB962 doesn't seem to apply in this case.

What am I missing?

hoozaru
01-03-2011, 8:04 PM
just wanna say what a cool screen name ;)

Ieyasu
01-03-2011, 8:06 PM
*LOL*

I thought I was going to have my question answered, but thanks, anyways. Glad you like it.;)

IrishPirate
01-03-2011, 8:12 PM
nothing prevents person to person sales. I can sell you ammo that i drive to Arizona and get. It's a rediculous law.


It would be nice to get an update on how close this thing is to being struck down....seeing as it's very close to going into effect!!!

Librarian
01-03-2011, 8:13 PM
Just don't make a business out of it. Otherwise, not regulated.

Ieyasu
01-03-2011, 8:28 PM
Thanks for the answers guys. I have a legit friend who could supply me with hard to come by ammo, if it becomes necessary.

If this dumb law sticks, I don't think there will be much variety of ammo (at good prices) out here. Just looking for a safety valve.

I will miss Internet purchases. Super convenient and I avoided the outrageous commie-state sales tax.

*SIGH*

choprzrul
01-03-2011, 8:34 PM
Just don't make a business out of it. Otherwise, not regulated.

Hmmm.....

Perhaps start a 2A non profit with a mission statement of "To provide a ready source of ammunition for 2A purposes to the citizens of California at cost plus expenses". Civil rights organizations can surely be non-profits I would think.

.

Lone_Gunman
01-03-2011, 9:58 PM
So then there is nothing preventing my brother-in-law from buying me ammo at his local walmart and shipping it to me UPS? We have some out of state Calgunners... could they ship us ammo at the actual cost of the ammo and shipping? Maybe just for a small donation to the CGF?

Librarian
01-03-2011, 10:24 PM
So then there is nothing preventing my brother-in-law from buying me ammo at his local walmart and shipping it to me UPS? We have some out of state Calgunners... could they ship us ammo at the actual cost of the ammo and shipping? Maybe just for a small donation to the CGF?

Uh-uh.

Private transfers must still be face to face.12318. (a) Commencing February 1, 2011, the delivery or transfer of
ownership of handgun ammunition may only occur in a face-to-face
transaction with the deliverer or transferor being provided bona fide
evidence of identity from the purchaser or other transferee. A
violation of this section is a misdemeanor.
It's the data collection and record-keeping that applies only to vendors.

mrdd
01-03-2011, 10:53 PM
Does PC 12318(a) apply equally to the transferor and the transferee? I.e. would both be breaking the law if a transfer of "handgun ammunition" is not done face to face?

Also, what if the transfer is done face-to-face but the identity of the receiver is not checked? Who committed a crime?

ETA: This law is so full of fail it is almost funny. As if it was written by 3rd graders.

Flintlock Tom
01-04-2011, 8:23 AM
12318. (a) Commencing February 1, 2011, the delivery or transfer of
ownership of handgun ammunition may only occur in a face-to-face
transaction with the deliverer or transferor being provided bona fide
evidence of identity from the purchaser or other transferee. A
violation of this section is a misdemeanor.
UPS already provides "Adult Signature Required" service. Why couldn't they just get a signature and look at ID? Wouldn't that qualify as "deliverer... being provided bona fide evidence of identity" and being "face-to-face"?

joefreas
01-04-2011, 9:13 AM
:lurk5:

Lone_Gunman
01-04-2011, 9:49 AM
Private transfers have to be face to face but by who? How about face to face between me and the UPS guy?

Librarian
01-04-2011, 12:04 PM
UPS already provides "Adult Signature Required" service. Why couldn't they just get a signature and look at ID? Wouldn't that qualify as "deliverer... being provided bona fide evidence of identity" and being "face-to-face"?

Private transfers have to be face to face but by who? How about face to face between me and the UPS guy?

Proposed before - no information on implementation.

dantodd
01-04-2011, 12:26 PM
Would tele-presence be adequate for face-to-face?

LadyShooter
01-04-2011, 12:42 PM
I got my Cabela's Shooter's catalog in the mail yesterday, and they won't be shipping to CA after 1/21. Which leads to my question, couldn't I order over the internet for an in store pickup if that pickup was Nevada? Just wondering. . .

Breadfan
01-04-2011, 12:50 PM
:lurk5::lurk5::lurk5:

vincewarde
01-04-2011, 1:01 PM
I got my Cabela's Shooter's catalog in the mail yesterday, and they won't be shipping to CA after 1/21. Which leads to my question, couldn't I order over the internet for an in store pickup if that pickup was Nevada? Just wondering. . .

That would largely be a matter of Cabels's policy. Unless I have missed something, AB962 deals with TRANSFERS within the state of California. Hence if the transaction is initiated via the net from California and the transfer happens in Nevada, there should not be a problem.

Again, the vendor's policy may be ultra cautious - but I think submitting an order for later pickup out of state should be legal.

Please, if I have missed something please feel free to correct me.