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View Full Version : Anyone Catch a VT Survivor on CNN??


BusBoy
01-03-2011, 1:09 PM
Gotta love some of the stuff he comes out with...

"Rather than pushing to bring more guns onto college campuses and trying to react to violence while it's under way, my point is we should work harder to stop the guns that make it there and to prevent those shootings in the first place. Once someone is on campus with guns and intends to kill, we've already lost. Let's take steps before the last possible second to make our schools and every American safer."

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/01/03/goddard.college.guns/index.html?hpt=C2

Glock22Fan
01-03-2011, 1:30 PM
Did Wayne LaPierre really say that?


The head of the National Rifle Association, Wayne LaPierre, said it well after the Columbine tragedy in 1999: "We believe in absolutely gun-free, zero-tolerance, totally safe schools. That means no guns in America's schools, period ... with the rare exception of law enforcement officers or trained security personnel. We believe America's schools should be as safe as America's airports. You can't talk about, much less take, bombs and guns onto airplanes. Such behavior in our schools should be prosecuted just as certainly as such behavior in our airports is prosecuted."


As safe as airports?

We going to have strip searches and back scatter x-rays before kids can get into the classroom?

BusBoy
01-03-2011, 1:34 PM
Did Wayne LaPierre really say that?
We going to have strip searches and back scatter x-rays before kids can get into the classroom?

No Kidding! "Step this way little Johnny to Chocolate starfish scanner." Little Johnny cringes as he hears the snap of a latex glove being put on by the school nurse. :eek:

jtyner
01-03-2011, 1:47 PM
investigators with the U.S. Department of Education found that the Virginia Tech administration failed to notify the student body for two hours that there had been a double homicide and that a gunman was on the loose.
In many cases, including the Virginia Tech shooting, the shooter had sought help, then fell through the cracks due to weaknesses in the system.
Seung-Hui Cho was the subject of a court order finding him a danger to himself or others because of mental illness. That court order was not submitted, allowing him to pass two background checks

So, the government failed to properly populate and use its own background check system. The school (and/or) others failed to provide requested, and presumably available, mental help to the shooter. The school failed to notify students that coming onto campus that morning was dangerous because a shooter was on the loose.

And the answer is to take away guns?

We believe in absolutely gun-free, zero-tolerance, totally safe schools.

And how did that work out for the students at VT?

This was my favorite, though.

Forcing colleges to allow students to carry concealed weapons isn't a solution and it could easily make matters worse. It effectively rewrites the book on how police respond to a situation with an active shooter. The one student with the gun would no longer be the only target -- that person could be one among several or more.

Because the law-abiding students will be pointing their guns at the cops...

Dreaded Claymore
01-03-2011, 2:49 PM
So, the government failed to properly populate and use its own background check system. The school (and/or) others failed to provide requested, and presumably available, mental help to the shooter. The school failed to notify students that coming onto campus that morning was dangerous because a shooter was on the loose.

And the answer is to take away guns?



And how did that work out for the students at VT?

This was my favorite, though.


Because the law-abiding students will be pointing their guns at the cops...

Please post this in the comments on the CNN page! This is quality material right here.

Sutcliffe
01-03-2011, 4:30 PM
The real irony to me is the life of Liviu Librescu. He was the 80 yr old professor who blocked the door with his body in an attempt to buy time for his students to jump from the windows of his class.
He was a Romanian who was caught up in the concentration camps horror of Nazi Germany and managed to escape to find a better life in America.
His tragedy is to be a victim of gun control twice in his long lifetime. He survived the first encounter. The craven Va Tech Board of Trustees saw to it that he didn't have a chance the second time around.

OleCuss
01-03-2011, 4:52 PM
If Wayne LaPierre really said that and meant it as it comes across, I'm going to have even more trouble talking myself into renewing my membership in the NRA.

Blood Ocean
01-03-2011, 5:13 PM
The NRA doesn't need your money, they should have plenty by now to fight every law on the books...too bad that's not their mission.

N6ATF
01-03-2011, 7:55 PM
:puke:

OleCuss
01-03-2011, 8:31 PM
The NRA doesn't need your money, they should have plenty by now to fight every law on the books...too bad that's not their mission.

There are a lot of good people in the NRA - not so sure about the goals, intellect, or honesty of its leadership.

They may be better than I think. It is, of course, important to remember that I probably tend to hear more of the bad than the good so maybe my view is distorted.

But if the State of California is arguably friendlier to the RKBA in schools than is the NRA - I've some issues with the NRA leadership.

OTOH, my opinion of CGF and SAF is very high - and my estimation of the CRPA is rising as well.

BKinzey
01-03-2011, 8:53 PM
He mentioned Columbine. Those kids didn't buy their guns legally. He specifically mentioned 3 guns. From Wikipedia:
Harris and Klebold acquired two 9 mm firearms and two 12-gauge shotguns. A rifle and the two shotguns were bought by a friend, Robyn Anderson, at the Tanner Gun Show in December, 1998. Harris and Klebold later bought a handgun from another friend, Mark Manes, for $500. Manes was jailed after the massacre for selling a handgun to a minor, as was Philip Duran, who had introduced the duo to Manes

Background checks would not have prevented Anderson from making the straw purchase for Harris and Klebold. AFAIK, Anderson was never charged with a crime either.

Then he mentioned University of Texas! Is he familiar with the shooting from the Tower there? Does he not know the first responders were other students with rifles and that definitely hampered Charles Whitman's ability to shoot more people? When the Police arrived, they went after Whitman in the tower. Apparently they weren't delayed or affected by the other students with firearms.

cbn620
01-03-2011, 8:56 PM
Didn't watch it, basing this on your quote of him. While I disagree with his anti-gun BS I do agree more needs to be done if we really want to end school violence. It's a start and I highly support it but I don't think allowing campus carry will solve the problem entirely. No one really wants to talk about why people are shooting other people. Everyone wants to play the blame game, blame the gun, blame mom, blame welfare, etc. The country probably does need to have a real conversation about gun violence. Violence in schools is a social issue, it needs to be dealt with that way.

OleCuss
01-03-2011, 9:05 PM
I spent some time in Afghanistan with a bunch of soldiers - many of which were college age.

They got training and performed well in a sustained combat environment.

If we were to take armed self-defense and turn it into a college sport and allow those who were substantially trained to carry, you'd have a force of men and women who could respond effectively in a variety of situations.

Arondos
01-03-2011, 9:46 PM
Yep stop the guns they just need to. (time to peg the sarcasm meter)

Put up a fence, some razor wire on the top around the whole campus (just like the airport). Then we can install full body scanners and put TSA in charge of school security.

Little Suzie and Johnnie will now need to arrive 3 hours before classes begin so that everyone can be screened prior to entering the campus. If you leave the campus you get to go back through the screening.

They also won't be able to bring lunch with them because liquids won't be allowed to prevent bombs.

And the first place this should be implemented is Bezerkley. Just tell them it is all to keep them safe...

Funtimes
01-03-2011, 9:49 PM
Many public schools in bad areas have metal detectors =p, this probably isn't far off as it is.

AJAX22
01-04-2011, 4:18 AM
I really hope Wayne didn't actually say that....

jshoebot
01-04-2011, 4:47 AM
If Wayne Lapierre actually advocated disarming the law-abiding, I'm cancelling my NRA membership and telling all my friends to do the same. Does anybody know if that's actually his quote, or is it misquoted?

AJAX22
01-04-2011, 4:59 AM
http://www.nrahq.org/transcripts/denver_wlp.asp


He did say it..... And a whole lot of other bull****.

Not sure if it's worth canceling over since it was in 1999....


But... Damn with friends like that...

yellowfin
01-04-2011, 5:05 AM
He chickened out, it looks like. He should have said "We tried it your way with disarmed students and faculty and look what we got!" I'm not sure why he dropped the ball, maybe just a simple choke under pressure, but clearly that's the case if he said what they say he did.

putput
01-04-2011, 6:13 AM
Collin Goddard

"Assistant Director of Federal Legislation, Brady Campaign; President, Richmond VA Chapter, Million Mom March"

This is the propaganda machine in a desperate fight to keep gun ownership to in the home only... If you can ban guns because of arbitrary cosmetics, then you then ban any gun. If you can keep guns out of airports and schools then you can keep guns 1000' feet away from a school... Stopping private sales means dealer only sales and limited registration...

voiceofreason
01-04-2011, 7:23 AM
It was a "Gun-Free Zone" already. See how well that worked?

Extending the Gun-Free Zone to the area around the school won't change anything.

If drugs and people can be illegally brought into the country, guns will be easier. Can't stop the criminals without them.

DannyInSoCal
01-04-2011, 7:35 AM
The NRA is a joke. I've supported them for years and accepted a certain amount of "maneuvering" to keep the anti-gun fuglies in check.

But after learning this (even if it was 1999) - And having only ONE NRA supported candidate in my county elected (out of eleven) - My money is better spent elsewhere.

Like the song says - Don't get fooled again...

negolien
01-04-2011, 8:06 AM
Did Wayne LaPierre really say that?



As safe as airports?

We going to have strip searches and back scatter x-rays before kids can get into the classroom?

I wish we didn't but if that's what it takes to make sure my kids are safe so fracking be it!!!!!

mstlaurent
01-04-2011, 8:43 AM
I wish we didn't but if that's what it takes to make sure my kids are safe so fracking be it!!!!!

And in the process you can teach your children that guns are bad, that only police should be allowed to have guns, that they are not responsible for their safety, the government is, and that if they want to be safe they need to give up their civil rights. Oh, here's a resource to help you with your lesson plan:

http://www.bradycampaign.org/

guns4life
01-04-2011, 8:52 AM
I wish we didn't but if that's what it takes to make sure my kids are safe so fracking be it!!!!!

You forgot the sarcasm smilie...

Mulay El Raisuli
01-04-2011, 8:54 AM
So, after listing all the ways that "gun control" doesn't do a damn bit of good, Mr Goddard then concludes that what we really need is MORE gun control???? This is a college graduate?


The Raisuli

Cbr1000Rider
01-04-2011, 9:02 AM
Even if there were an ALL out ban on guns.. criminals will still be able to obtain guns in America.. whether it be through Mexico trafficking or whatever.. Someone needs to hammer that in this moron kids brain.

yellowfin
01-04-2011, 9:28 AM
So, after listing all the ways that "gun control" doesn't do a damn bit of good, Mr Goddard then concludes that what we really need is MORE gun control???? This is a college graduate?


The RaisuliHe's learned to shut up with the logic and spout the Brady BS to get a paycheck. It's a pretty safe bet he's on the Brady/VPC/Joyce payroll.

stix213
01-04-2011, 3:18 PM
If we just got rid of the 2nd & 4th amendments, then we can finally be safe.

juicemansam
01-05-2011, 4:22 AM
This was my favorite, though.

Forcing colleges to allow students to carry concealed weapons isn't a solution and it could easily make matters worse. It effectively rewrites the book on how police respond to a situation with an active shooter. The one student with the gun would no longer be the only target -- that person could be one among several or more.

Because the law-abiding students will be pointing their guns at the cops...

No, silly, because guns make people insane, and we all know that if one insane shooter starts all the rest want in. You know, like refeer madness.

BusBoy
01-05-2011, 6:19 AM
You know, like refeer madness.

What a great movie! :D

0m128QcdrUI

bombadillo
01-05-2011, 7:23 AM
Well, reefer makes me want to do it on a piano bench!!! :D

Pelicandriver
01-05-2011, 8:00 AM
There are people disgruntled with the police. Wonder why none of them try to shoot up cop shops! Hmm...

Douva
01-06-2011, 12:56 AM
Gotta love some of the stuff he comes out with...

"Rather than pushing to bring more guns onto college campuses and trying to react to violence while it's under way, my point is we should work harder to stop the guns that make it there and to prevent those shootings in the first place. Once someone is on campus with guns and intends to kill, we've already lost. Let's take steps before the last possible second to make our schools and every American safer."

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/01/03/goddard.college.guns/index.html?hpt=C2

The official rebuttal from CampusCarry.com and the Texas chapter of SCCC is located here:

http://www.campuscarry.com/2011/01/06/colin-goddard-fails-to-see-how-campus-carry-fits-into-big-picture/#content

yellowfin
01-06-2011, 5:15 AM
Excellent work, Scott. tís hard to imagine a more life-changing event, and it doesnít take a Ph.D. in psychology to understand why Colin has chosen to dedicated his life to campaigning for stricter gun control laws.* He is now the assistant director of legislative affairs for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and the subject of a short documentary titled Living for 32, which is currently making the rounds on the film festival circuit.
As suspected, that Colin guy is pushing gun banning for no other reason than a paycheck. Despicable.

CalBear
01-06-2011, 9:08 AM
If that's the same VT survivor who appeared on that gun control special with John Stossel, the dude is a complete idiot. You can tell the bradys have swallowed him whole, and he is simply regurgitating their BS. His statements about why he feels the way he does don't make a bit of sense.

GFSZs are one of the biggest crocks in gun control history. Even worse is the fact that the GFSZ extends 1000 ft beyond the school's perimeter. The same BS is used to keep sex offenders from living within 1000 ft of the same zone. I know many of you probably favor the ban on sex offenders in "school zones", but I see both a phony, poorly thought, emotional plans that have actually made things worse. Sex offenders have been made homeless in many areas by these laws, and the recidivism rates go up in this circumstance. The affect of gun free school zones is obvious -- they're no self defense zones, or criminal safe havens.

Whenever a law is crafted with "think of the children" in mind, it always turns out bad. That's because humans are more emotional (biologically) about children than any other being. This severely affects our logic and judgement, and it results in totally ineffective laws that merely sound good to most.

dantodd
01-06-2011, 10:57 AM
I spent some time in Afghanistan with a bunch of soldiers - many of which were college age.

They got training and performed well in a sustained combat environment.

If we were to take armed self-defense and turn it into a college sport and allow those who were substantially trained to carry, you'd have a force of men and women who could respond effectively in a variety of situations.

Just like the first amendment we should teach young kids to understand and respect the second. As they reach high school we should encourage and facilitate their learning in the exercise of the right, within limits.

Eddy the Eagle type programs for youngsters and shooting classes available as part of PE for high school. Punching holes in paper or combat style training. Just as we have debate teams and writing classes that encourage and develop the ability to exercise the right to free speech.

dantodd
01-06-2011, 11:04 AM
I wish we didn't but if that's what it takes to make sure my kids are safe so fracking be it!!!!!

The world isn't safe. It never was and it never will be. Soon they'll try to outlaw gravity to prevent poor little baby kids from getting their knee scraped when they fall down.

We should prepare our children for the world, not protect them from it.

We also need to do everything we can to improve that world. Getting involved on a daily basis in the goings on of our neighborhoods, cities, and towns is a great start. The more we insulate and isolate ourselves the worse the problem becomes and the more we feel the need to isolate ourselves from it. If we were all out on the streets walking every day it would go a long way to cleaning up the garbage.

yellowfin
01-06-2011, 1:11 PM
Whenever a law is crafted with "think of the children" in mind, it always turns out bad. That's because humans are more emotional (biologically) about children than any other being. This severely affects our logic and judgment, and it results in totally ineffective laws that merely sound good to most.They're not crafted with the children in mind. They're marketed that way, though, so that the affected logic and judgment of the voters is taken advantage of.

N6ATF
01-06-2011, 1:15 PM
"Think of the children" far too often means "Think of the children hurt and dying after we pass this law, won't that be great? We hate children!"

safewaysecurity
01-06-2011, 1:18 PM
Guys calm down. Yes Wayne LaPierre did say that but I'm sure he's changed his mind. I mean the guy advocates for CCWs in schools now.

CalBear
01-06-2011, 2:30 PM
They're not crafted with the children in mind. They're marketed that way, though, so that the affected logic and judgment of the voters is taken advantage of.
Often times, they are not. There are some very manipulative people in power. Still, people tend to make less-than-rational decisions and conclusions when something involves children. Any time there is one of these over-publicized school shootings or child abductions, it's good to slow down for a minute and ask if the new law being enacted does a damned thing, or if it actually makes things worse.