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jbburgos
08-02-2006, 11:20 PM
If i buy property out of state, say Arizona, does that entitle me to buy weapons under Arizona rules and regs.

Thanks.
jb

Henry47
08-02-2006, 11:34 PM
If i buy property out of state, say Arizona, does that entitle me to buy weapons under Arizona rules and regs.

Thanks.
jb

sure does, but don't try to bring them back to California.

xenophobe
08-03-2006, 12:31 AM
If i buy property out of state, say Arizona, does that entitle me to buy weapons under Arizona rules and regs.

Thanks.
jb

Only if you are an actual resident and spend a significant amount of time there.

rod
08-03-2006, 5:28 AM
I believe you have to show proof of residency such as an AZ drivers license, utility bill in your name with an AZ address on it, or something else along those lines.

EOD Guy
08-03-2006, 7:45 AM
sure does, but don't try to bring them back to California.


You can be a temporary resident of another state and be able to purchase firearms in that state while actually residing there. Just owning property there is not enough.

You can also bring those firearms back to California, as long as they are not prohibited in California.

Here is a FAQ and answer from the BATF web site:

(B12) May a person (who is not an alien) who resides in one State and owns property in another State purchase a handgun in either State?

If a person maintains a home in 2 States and resides in both States for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a handgun in that State. However, simply owning property in another State does not qualify the person to purchase a handgun in that State.

[27 CFR 478.11]

midnitereaper
08-03-2006, 8:22 AM
You can be a temporary resident of another state and be able to purchase firearms in that state while actually residing there. Just owning property there is not enough.

You can also bring those firearms back to California, as long as they are not prohibited in California.

Here is a FAQ and answer from the BATF web site:

How long is the "period of time" mentioned in the BATF FAQ? A week, month, year?

DRM6000
08-03-2006, 9:55 AM
How long is the "period of time" mentioned in the BATF FAQ? A week, month, year?


i think that if a person pays the utilties for the property and actually stays there peridically, that would qualify as residing there.

EOD Guy
08-03-2006, 10:25 AM
How long is the "period of time" mentioned in the BATF FAQ? A week, month, year?

I don't know of any particular length of time. When I was a temporary resident of Arizona, I was staying there from late November until late March for 5 years. I checked with BATF and they had no problem with me purchasing firearms in Arizona during that period. They did mention that buying during short trips might raise some questions as to motive.

Dump1567
08-03-2006, 10:37 AM
In AZ, all you need is an I.D. card to buy guns. They do an instant check & if your clear, you walk out with the gun. You need to decide if you qualify as a resident when your their. ATF states you need to spend time in the state. This can include weekends. Here's my opinion. If you own a residence in AZ that you spend time at, buy guns while your there that you use and leave there, I don't think anyone would give a S%&*. I won't recommend bringing anything back to Cali.

On a side note, AZ allows non-residents to take the 8 hour CCW class. The AZ CCW card does not list an address.

M. Sage
08-03-2006, 4:37 PM
Hmmm.. Timeshare, anybody? :D

gs3608
08-03-2006, 5:21 PM
On a side note, AZ allows non-residents to take the 8 hour CCW class. The AZ CCW card does not list an address.[/QUOTE]

What about Nevada?

repojock
08-03-2006, 6:21 PM
On a side note, AZ allows non-residents to take the 8 hour CCW class. The AZ CCW card does not list an address.

What about Nevada?[/QUOTE]

nevada will let you get a non resident ccw but you will have to show up in person to file the paperwork and proof of the class..

Dump1567
08-03-2006, 6:42 PM
What about Nevada?

nevada will let you get a non resident ccw but you will have to show up in person to file the paperwork and proof of the class..[/QUOTE]

AZ also requires you to take the class in AZ. I took it about 6 months ago from a guy in the Ft. Mohave area (about 20 min. from Laughlin). He puts it on about once a month at his house. 8 hour class. Requires shooting your pistol or his, covers lots of issues on liability, and fills out DPS application and fingerprint card. I had my app. & card in the mail the same day after the class. Three weeks later I had my CCW card. If anyones interested, give him a call:
Scott Aldrich
1-928-768-1875

Hmmm.. Timeshare, anybody?

I've been saying this for years. Cheap house or trailer in AZ or NV. Everyone splits the mort. Get your I.D. card, and start filling your safes.;)

SemiAutoSam
08-03-2006, 6:49 PM
Just curious here ?

Lets say someone that lives in california also buys property in a free ajoining state AZ,NV,OR and he gets an ID card with the address of his property in that state or even a Driver license.

He purchases firearms in that state.

What law forbids him from bringing the weapons that are not evil (forbidden) into california ?

I don't mean he is going to bring the illegal weapons into califorina just the ones that aren't thought of as illegal.

M. Sage
08-03-2006, 7:44 PM
Just curious here ?

Lets say someone that lives in california also buys property in a free ajoining state AZ,NV,OR and he gets an ID card with the address of his property in that state or even a Driver license.

He purchases firearms in that state.

What law forbids him from bringing the weapons that are not evil (forbidden) into california ?

I don't mean he is going to bring the illegal weapons into califorina just the ones that aren't thought of as illegal.

There is none (that I know of). If you're a resident of another state, you can bring non AW's into California. Hell, from the DOJ's "new resident" FAQ, among others, you can even bring in handguns that aren't on the "safe" list when you move here. Can't sell those, though.

Kruzr
08-03-2006, 8:01 PM
you can even bring in handguns that aren't on the "safe" list when you move here. Can't sell those, though.
Sure you can. When you move to the state from being a resident of another state, you can bring your non-listed handguns into the state. You then self register them. You can then sell them in a private party transfer just like any other handgun.

SemiAutoSam
08-03-2006, 8:23 PM
Tree
You have a way of dancing around the question but never answering it.


My point was not in doing illegal things. My point was if someone has more than one residence or domicile could he bring into california the weapons that are legal in both the other state of residence or domicile and california.

My question had nothing to do with someone just buying a plot of land and calling themselves a resident. Im speaking of someone actually purchasing a home on land or a so called residence within another state.

You always put a negative or someone is trying to do this slant on things.


One can be a resident of more than one state.

Hunter
08-03-2006, 8:41 PM
Just curious here ?
What law forbids him from bringing the weapons that are not evil (forbidden) into california ? .


SAS,
There is no law that would prevent it. A person could transport his firearms back and forth between residences without any restrictions if they are legal to own in CA. Now if any handguns are brought into the state with intent to stay, then they must be registered within 60 days of coming into the state. If they are only here visiting, then no.

The same laws that apply to new residents are the same ones that would apply in this situation.

Liberty Rules
08-03-2006, 11:58 PM
The problem does not lie with bringing weapons into California. The problem is much bigger: Just buying property in another state does not make one a resident of that other state. To be a resident of another state requires presence and intent to continue to reside there. It is perfectly possible to reside in more than one state, for example by living in New York in the summer and Florida in the winter.

Simply buying an empty piece of land there, taking one trip to get the ID card, and then going only once a year for a weekend to buy firearms does not make one a resident. And buying firearms as a non-resident is a federal crime, in particular if it is done with intent to get around gun control laws. This is explicitly spelled out on the ATF web site: You have to be a resident of the other state, which means being there for a while.

Note that being a resident of another state also has serious tax consequences. You need to suddenly make interesting decisions about what state to pay taxes in, and probably need to file two state tax returns every year. This is very likely to increase your tax bill.

And note that because of the taxation issue it would be trivially easy for the CA DoJ to catch people who are abusing this. For example, they could run a database search for people who regularly import handguns into California (you have to register them with the DoJ when they enter the state), yet pay only taxes in California, and their CA tax return does not list residency in any other state.

Now, if one were to seriously start residing part of the year in another state (meaning being regularly present there, dealing with the taxation issues correctly, and such), buying guns there and bringing them into California would be legal, and an excellent idea.

Obnoxious side note: I think we should have a system of demerits for users who give dangerous advice that is likely to get people in trouble with the law. After a certain number of demerits, users should be banned.

Treelogger's post touches on a lot of important considerations. There are Federal gun purchase issues to consider as well as state tax issues. Do not discount the tax angle. For instance, what if the ATF notices that you are purchasing firearms in more than one state? Let's say they want to be hard asses and question your claim of temporary residency. However, they check your taxes and find out that you filed only in CA, not in the other state. What does that say about your intent to reside there? So, aside from getting bitten by the tax authorities, the failure to file may also undermine your credibility on the residency requirement for the purchase.

People often ask lawyers, how much <fill in the blank> is enough? More often than not, there is no definite answer. "It depends" is often the answer. If you have lots on one side, that's too little. Lots on the other side, that's plenty. Somewhere in the middle? Well, that's gray area. For instance, if you were visiting Aunt Edna for a week at Xmas, that would not pass the smell test. If you spent six months working in the other state and own a house there? That sounds better. It all depends on your individual facts.

Dump1567
08-04-2006, 8:59 AM
I won't get into "what if" or "tin foil hat" scenarios. It basically comes down to; do you feel you qualify to buy firearms in that state based on ATF guidelines? If you feel you meet these guidelines and can justify them if needed, buy away.

SemiAutoSam
08-04-2006, 9:15 AM
Treelogger's post touches on a lot of important considerations. There are Federal gun purchase issues to consider as well as state tax issues. Do not discount the tax angle. For instance, what if the ATF notices that you are purchasing firearms in more than one state? Let's say they want to be hard asses and question your claim of temporary residency. However, they check your taxes and find out that you filed only in CA, not in the other state. What does that say about your intent to reside there? So, aside from getting bitten by the tax authorities, the failure to file may also undermine your credibility on the residency requirement for the purchase.

People often ask lawyers, how much <fill in the blank> is enough? More often than not, there is no definite answer. "It depends" is often the answer. If you have lots on one side, that's too little. Lots on the other side, that's plenty. Somewhere in the middle? Well, that's gray area. For instance, if you were visiting Aunt Edna for a week at Xmas, that would not pass the smell test. If you spent six months working in the other state and own a house there? That sounds better. It all depends on your individual facts.

Your forgetting we have a right to own firearms and since in Nevada and Oregon and Arizona one can buy a firearm from a private party without having any state or federal government agency involved.

Does no one have any backbone left ? is this where we say put it in a little harder and deeper Its not painful enuough yet?

I have some points to make about federal law but until I have case cites to back it up I wont go into how federal law only applies in the 10 mile square district where it was created.

Dump1567
08-04-2006, 10:08 AM
Does no one have any backbone left ? is this where we say put it in a little harder and deeper Its not painful enuough yet?

Some people can't function in this state without contacting their lawyer first.:rolleyes:

They have no concept of what's going on behind the wall in "Free America" where your bowel movements aren't regulated by the Govenment.

The Claifornia mindset around here really gives me a headache.

Telpierion
08-04-2006, 3:51 PM
What constitutes sufficient residency is an issue left to the individual states. You should contact the other state to see what they consider acceptable residency to purchase guns there. This is a separate issue from taxation concerns, which you should also make sure are in order.