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biggyfan1
01-02-2011, 11:33 AM
Hey guys i mounted a scope on my Mosin and my range report is poor. Im sure this is a common reaction with a Mosin but i would like to tighten up my grouping if possible. So i was trying to sight in my new setup at about 100 yards and i could never get it right on. I was shooting at a pizza box with a target spray painted on it and all shots hit the box but it would not stay consistent. 6 inches left, 3 inches right, 1 inch low, 3 inch right. The gun is on tripod and its not moving and there was no wind at all. Also i tried sighting it @ 60 yards and got the same thing. I was thinking it is my scope. Its a long eye relief made by AIM. here is my set up. what do you think?

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b170/biggyfan1/mosin.jpg

SixPointEight
01-02-2011, 11:37 AM
9inch group at 100..a bit big...but this is a mosin with surplus right?

biggyfan1
01-02-2011, 11:41 AM
yes mosin with surplus. Am i expecting to much out of her? lol

SixPointEight
01-02-2011, 11:52 AM
Well...At the very least I would suggest trying something like new wolf or brown bear ammo. Double check that all the scope mounts are tight and not moving when you fire. Aside from that, you may have a bad barrel. Not that unusual. I had a mosin that held 5MOA IF it was cool. If you let it warm up too much...forget about it.

paul0660
01-02-2011, 11:54 AM
Am i expecting to much out of her?

Probably. Not many made the grade as snipers, and those used the best ammo available.

Quinc
01-02-2011, 11:54 AM
How does the barrel look? You might try plugging the end and letting it soak with kroil for 2 days and then cleaning it. Mine damn near looked like chrome after doing that.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=137203

bjl333
01-02-2011, 12:04 PM
Double check the mounts !!! If the mounts are off, no amount of adjustment will get you on target. Beyond that I have no idea what kind of groups a Mosin should hold. The only experience I have with a Mosin is during the Tactical Trukey shoot, where Beetle Bailey shot it for the carbine course !!!! :p:p

Noonanda
01-02-2011, 1:48 PM
Not meant as an insult, but how do you shoot using other rifles, and what are the other calibers. Also did you shoot this rifle with iron sights prior to attempting the scope mount?

obeygiant
01-02-2011, 2:15 PM
Trying to find the original site that I saw it on but in the mean time here is a decent article on how to improve the accuracy of your Mosin. Link (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1326529/how_to_make_your_mosin_nagant_9130_pg2.html?cat=11 )

Take a look at the write up on the Box of Truth here (http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu63.htm)

Another article here (http://codyshobbies.blogspot.com/2009/07/accurizing-mosin-nagant.html)

1lostinspace
01-02-2011, 2:23 PM
I always amazes me how guys try and make them accurate!
It's $89 dollar rifle!

Noonanda
01-02-2011, 2:38 PM
Well my m-28/76 will put many factory rifles to shame. Granted it aint a 89 dollar rifle but it is still a mosin lol

brianinca
01-02-2011, 2:48 PM
I get much better groups than that with a counter-bored M38 and iron sights, what you're describing sounds like a loose scopemount or a dead scope. Shucks, I've got a pristine M44 that shoots <3 MOA with the bayonet folded. How did it shoot before you "improved" it?

Regards,
Brian in CA

Howie44
01-02-2011, 2:53 PM
Well my m-28/76 will put many factory rifles to shame. Granted it aint a 89 dollar rifle but it is still a mosin lol

I have the same problem with my scout scoped M39 :D . I love to sit next to non-shooters with their tacticool, $1000+ rigs, and show them what a REAL rifle will do! (then again, I made sure it shot tight groups with irons before I put the scout mount on it)

mauser98k
01-02-2011, 2:53 PM
Well my m-28/76 will put many factory rifles to shame. Granted it aint a 89 dollar rifle but it is still a mosin lol

but those Finns are a little more renowned for accuracy than the Russians ;)

Noonanda
01-02-2011, 3:38 PM
but those Finns are a little more renowned for accuracy than the Russians ;)

I will agree, I mean it is like comparing a Turkish M-38 to a AX 40 K-98, it is still a mauser as well but not quite as nice LOL:D But Ive got some pretty accurate 91/30s and my M-38 likes .308 bullets and holds 1 1/2 inch groups using handloads

hypnoman
01-02-2011, 5:19 PM
yes mosin with surplus. Am i expecting to much out of her? lol

There are many causes for a mosin to be inaccurate . . . and many fixes. Someone said they are an inexpensive rifle, why fix them? Because they can be made very accurate, too. I had an m44 that would barely "spray" within an 10" target at 50 yards.

Remember, your rifle has likely to have gone through a rearsenal process, with parts swapped. That stock likely is another stock. Surplus ammo? Some batch will contain a huge variance between rounds, bullet weights and diameter. I once pulled over 100 rounds and reweighed charges, sorted bullets and sorted a couple of handful that were close and shot them to minimize group size. I bedded the stock and learned to do a trigger job amd recrowned the barrel because it came pretty banged up.

Today, that old m44 makes 3 round groups about 1 1/2" from 50yds open sights, even better in the hands of a more capable shooter! A good friend of mine sold his m1a after that because it didn't do as well even with a scope.

What's point with a $99 rifle? You bought it, you own it, it shoots poorly and can be improved . . . be patient . . . and have fun. Making it shoot better is a journey, not a destination

mauser98k
01-02-2011, 5:53 PM
I will agree, I mean it is like comparing a Turkish M-38 to a AX 40 K-98, it is still a mauser as well but not quite as nice LOL:D But Ive got some pretty accurate 91/30s and my M-38 likes .308 bullets and holds 1 1/2 inch groups using handloads

i actually have an "ax 1940" 98k :cool2:

Argonaut
01-02-2011, 6:49 PM
Mosin's suffer from inconsistency, I was reading a 40 year old article about them recently and it said there could be as much as 5-10, thousands difference between one barrel to another. some are 308, some are 318 or somewhere in between. Slug the barrel to see what you are dealing with. Barrel slugging is a simple process that anyone should be able to do.

Noonanda
01-02-2011, 7:27 PM
i actually have an "ax 1940" 98k :cool2:

thats awesome, I was actually just jokin around, but I got a turk M-38 I'll trade ya for it LOL

mauser98k
01-02-2011, 7:31 PM
thats awesome, I was actually just jokin around, but I got a turk M-38 I'll trade ya for it LOL

sorry :D

Cowboy T
01-02-2011, 7:42 PM
I always amazes me how guys try and make them accurate!
It's $89 dollar rifle!

Yes, an $89 rifle that can be every bit as accurate as a Remington 700 if

1.) you got a good Mosin, and
2.) you give it a little attention.

If someone ends up spending $250 including the rifle, and they get MOA or better precision (mine does sub-MOA now that it has a scope), I'd call that a bargain.

smokeysbandit
01-02-2011, 8:13 PM
You need to slug the barrel, and get some better ammo. My friend has put more time into his mosin than I can fathom. He started the same way, scope, stock, bipod, etc. All the while I was telling him to shoot some better ammo through it. He wouldn't listen for over a year, and every range trip went home extremely dissapointed with his 8+ MOA rifle. I insisted we put some rounds together before the last trip, and slug the barrel. It turns out his is .311, and shoots just over 1 MOA with the load we put together. Next trip he wants to do a full workup on it, and he couldn't be happier now. Put something worth shooting through it before doing anything else.
My .02-
Brandon

CDFingers
01-03-2011, 4:50 AM
No one has yet mentioned: make sure the two action screws are tight; tighten the front one first, quite tight, then snug up the rear one.

I agree about the scope mounting, that it should be tight and unmoving.

Some have mentioned the counter bore: check to see if the lands and grooves provide a consistent, even, exit point at the muzzle. Ivan may have over used the steel cleaning rod and worn out the muzzle area. Very inexpensive fix.

Best of luck.

CDFingers

Geodetic
01-03-2011, 6:37 AM
I'm really not surprised by results. I had the same problem. I tried a scount mount and tried sighting it in at 100 yds... grouped like a shotgun. Brought it back to 50 yds... same thing. This was with brown bear ammo. The barrel is pitted, but the rifling is still very prominent. I guess I expected too much. I know it wasn't me because I could should decent groups with my M1 Garand at 50 and 100 yards with open sights, and that was with Greek military grade ammo. :rolleyes:

Mr Wizard
01-03-2011, 8:01 PM
Just use bigger targets like I do. It'll make your 8" groups look smaller. :D

Fate
01-03-2011, 8:13 PM
It's Ivan's ghost. He's pissed you Bubba'd his girl. :D

Interloper
01-03-2011, 8:17 PM
So I was right all along? A scope and a sporter stock won't make a Mosin into a precision rifle? What's that you say? You wish you had bought a scoped commercial rifle for the same money? Well, I'm not one to say I told you so....but I did.

Jarhead
01-04-2011, 6:26 PM
should have looked at a Savage first if you were looking for an inexpensive tack driver, Mosin is a crude Infantry Rifle at best, maybe a PU is what you really wanted? Anyway she looked better in her original peasant garb

Army GI
01-04-2011, 6:30 PM
I'm sorry to hear that bro. I had a similar situation, but reversed with a Mosin and an M1903 Mk1. My Mosin shoots pretty well not just for a Mosin, but for a surplus rifle in general. I can't even reliably hit the 1' steel plate at 200 yards with my M1903. My most accurate surplus is my 1944 M1 rifle. I can hit the 1' gong at 315 yards all day with it.

mosinnagantm9130
01-05-2011, 12:49 PM
So I was right all along? A scope and a sporter stock won't make a Mosin into a precision rifle? What's that you say? You wish you had bought a scoped commercial rifle for the same money? Well, I'm not one to say I told you so....but I did.

+1 there.

Quinc
01-05-2011, 5:50 PM
So I was right all along? A scope and a sporter stock won't make a Mosin into a precision rifle? What's that you say? You wish you had bought a scoped commercial rifle for the same money? Well, I'm not one to say I told you so....but I did.

Why do you guys care so much about this? Why not try and contribute something useful? Maybe people like the challenge... kind of like turning a pinto into a hot rod..


http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/2654/4361/6634680225_large.jpg


Vs

69$ refurb

http://www.centuryarms.biz/images/Rifles/72s_RI660%20w%20accessories.jpg

Don't get me wrong I have an ex-dragoon and would never alter it. :)

Noonanda
01-05-2011, 6:00 PM
Why do you guys care so much about this? Why not try and contribute something useful? Maybe people like the challenge... kind of like turning a pinto into a hot rod..


http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/2654/4361/6634680225_large.jpg


Vs

69$ refurb

http://www.centuryarms.biz/images/Rifles/72s_RI660%20w%20accessories.jpg

Don't get me wrong I have an ex-dragoon and would never alter it. :)

3 questions for you.
1) Did you buy it as a complete and or matching rifle?
2) How much money do you have invested in that rifle?
3) How does it shoot at 100 yds?
if 1) is yes, 2) is $150 or more, and 3) is groups of 1 1/2 inches or more, well I guess when you list it on gunbroker as a "Super accurate Sniper Mosin" with a starting bid of $200 where it lists to infinity my sporterize signature is then correct:eek:

Hey Just got a call from the Russian Army, they want to put that rifle in the same display case as the GheyK-47 LOL :) Just kidding about this
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/4320/brat4z.jpg

Quinc
01-05-2011, 8:33 PM
3 questions for you.
1) Did you buy it as a complete and or matching rifle?
2) How much money do you have invested in that rifle?
3) How does it shoot at 100 yds?
if 1) is yes, 2) is $150 or more, and 3) is groups of 1 1/2 inches or more, well I guess when you list it on gunbroker as a "Super accurate Sniper Mosin" with a starting bid of $200 where it lists to infinity my sporterize signature is then correct:eek:

Hey Just got a call from the Russian Army, they want to put that rifle in the same display case as the GheyK-47 LOL :) Just kidding about this
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/4320/brat4z.jpg

Its not mine. :)

Markus
01-06-2011, 12:18 AM
Or just get a K31.

Noonanda
01-06-2011, 4:15 AM
Its not mine. :)

Well me, I'll take the $69 dollar Refurb. The other one looks GHey

mauser98k
01-06-2011, 12:21 PM
Well me, I'll take the $69 dollar Refurb. The other one looks GHey
agreed.

armedoffroader
01-06-2011, 5:07 PM
OP, so did you take off the leaf sight and put a long eye relief scope on the 3/8" mount? What scope is that? I'm interested in doing something similar. Thanks

smbob
01-07-2011, 5:56 PM
My 91/30 shoots pretty well with 203gr Silver Bear SP. I have a S&K Scout
Mount with a 4X32mm Simmons handgun scope. I'm sure if I reloaded for
it I could shrink the groups quite a bit.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff186/smbob/RangeReport5-10-08.jpg

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff186/smbob/9130Scout014.jpg

It took me a long time to figure out that you get what you pay for when it
comes to mounts and scopes. I have the same setup on a couple of my
Mausers too and it works great.


http://www.scopemounts.com/index.html?main.html

http://www.opticsplanet.net/simmons-4x32mm-prohunter-handgun-scope.html

Robert

ElvenSoul
01-07-2011, 6:04 PM
So tried shooting it without the glass?

God Bless The Mauser
01-07-2011, 6:16 PM
I did some basic accurizing on my Mosin and it made a world of difference. I free floated the barrel, put a shim to support the very end, polished the trigger and put a narrower front sight on. It went from 10" at 100 yards down to about 2". I hit clays with it and '50s Bulgarian surplus at 360 yards. It took a few rounds to walk it into the target but it was easy after that. It really likes the '50s Bulgarian, some of the other stuff still shoots like crap and the '50s Bulgarian shoots like crap in some of my other Mosins so try different ammo types in yours.

I thought about scoping mine but once I got really good with iron sights I lost interest. Of my 20+ rifles the only one with a scope is my Remington 700. A Mosin with a scope is no excuse for a precision rifle. If I wanted one with a scope it would be the WWII type.

Fjold
01-07-2011, 7:34 PM
It took me a long time to figure out that you get what you pay for when it comes to mounts and scopes.
Robert

Don't you think that the same statement might apply to rifles?

Noonanda
01-07-2011, 8:39 PM
Don't you think that the same statement might apply to rifles?

Just because the rifle is inexpensive doesnt mean it was made of cheap junky parts.
Mosins were made quickly and there were shortcuts taken especially if it was made in 1941/42 time frame, but these were cosmetic shortcuts, not functional shortcuts. I really doubt an NC star scope would be in as good condition as a a PU scope after fighting on the Eastern front. but you can compare cheaply and crudely made junk scopes to inexpensive rifles if you want. But if you tell me UTG parts are top of the line and that TAPCO makes Milspec parts too I will definately tell you to lay off the drugs :) LOL

stitchnicklas
01-07-2011, 9:18 PM
i shot my modifed mosin monday at maywood.
new tasco scopeon a leaf sight scope mount with a riser extension on a ati stock,bipod on front.

zeroed in on gongs at 276yds and was tagging them consistantly. they are about 18in gongs.

purist can bash all they want but my mosin kicked a** using Bulgarian surplus ammo.
held zero very nicely..

resident-shooter
01-07-2011, 9:32 PM
I will try to make it short.... Your surplus ammo became surplus ammo because its too old for the army to use, not because they just suddenly decided to renew their stockpiles. Try some new reloaded/factory loaded ammo and see the result. The rifle is good.

Jarhead
01-09-2011, 8:28 AM
There is a reason the K-31 is 4-5 times as much as the Ruskie Mosin Nagant

Noonanda
01-09-2011, 11:46 AM
There is a reason the K-31 is 4-5 times as much as the Ruskie Mosin Nagant

yea there was less made.;)

Jarhead
01-09-2011, 11:59 AM
MN is not even in the neighborhood of a K-31 as far as workmanship and accuracy

resident-shooter
01-09-2011, 12:32 PM
MN is not even in the neighborhood of a K-31 as far as workmanship and accuracy

with surplus ammo it isnt.

mosinnagantm9130
01-09-2011, 12:40 PM
MN is not even in the neighborhood of a K-31 as far as workmanship and accuracy

Clearly you've never handled a Finn.

weezil_boi
01-09-2011, 12:50 PM
well, my mosin project gun is no 1 moa rifle... but its ok.

Id suggest putting the orig iron sights back on and really testing some ammo (various) at 25, 50 and 100 yds. Once you are sure of the rifle's consistency and ability with those... then you'll know what the scope/mount does or doesnt do.

Truthfully, there are some scenarios where you might just shoot BETTER at 100-300 yds with irons than with a half arsed scope set up.

good luck with your mosin. Please update us one your progress.

glennsche
01-09-2011, 12:57 PM
I will try to make it short.... Your surplus ammo became surplus ammo because its too old for the army to use, not because they just suddenly decided to renew their stockpiles. Try some new reloaded/factory loaded ammo and see the result. The rifle is good.

i thought alot of surp ammo became such because the guns shooting it were phased out of service. like if you were russia and went from x54 to x39, or 303brit to nato, or 7.5french to nato, or german 8mm to nato/x39... etc?

Howie44
01-09-2011, 1:01 PM
MN is not even in the neighborhood of a K-31 as far as workmanship and accuracy

Mr Jarhead, Any time you would like to prove that point , I will make myself available to shoot one of my M39's against your K31. Bring money you can afford to lose.

samspade77
01-09-2011, 1:34 PM
Bed your stock and try different ammo to compare the results. Just my two cents worth.

thepunisher
01-09-2011, 2:23 PM
I have a similar project with a barreled receiver I got for 50 bucks. Put a ati stock,
s&k mount, and scope on it. I can shoot an orange at 50 yards from a standing position.
Its all about being steady and careful breathing to connect with the orange. I usually use
my reloads of sierra bullets with vargent powder. Fun gun to shoot, good luck with yours.

mosinnagantm9130
01-09-2011, 2:40 PM
i thought alot of surp ammo became such because the guns shooting it were phased out of service. like if you were russia and went from x54 to x39, or 303brit to nato, or 7.5french to nato, or german 8mm to nato/x39... etc?

7.62x54r is still in service in Russia. It's used in SVD's and some LMG's.

alks207
01-09-2011, 10:43 PM
my range report is poor. Im sure this is a common reaction with a Mosin


I beg to differ:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/alks207/032.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/alks207/photo2.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/alks207/photo-1.jpg

P.S. I was using Winchester SP

mosinnagantm9130
01-10-2011, 12:11 PM
Nice shooting alks!

resident-shooter
01-11-2011, 9:03 AM
i thought alot of surp ammo became such because the guns shooting it were phased out of service. like if you were russia and went from x54 to x39, or 303brit to nato, or 7.5french to nato, or german 8mm to nato/x39... etc?

It is the case in some former east bloc countries that are now joining NATO (Poland, Romania, Czech republic and others). However MANY countries still use 7.62x54R round as primary machinegun/sniper rifle cartridge. It is just that the military stacks up a looooot of ammo for a potential war, but decades later the powder decays and the ammo becoms less accurate, less predictable etc etc. So they sell it to the civilians for cheap and buy new ammo. As for 7.62x39 cartridge, it replaced 7.62x54R cartridge as the main infantry combat round but then was swapped for 5.45X39mm cartridge in USSR only. (Mosin to AK 47 to AK 74)

Twoodland
01-11-2011, 9:17 AM
You need to slug the barrel, and get some better ammo. My friend has put more time into his mosin than I can fathom. He started the same way, scope, stock, bipod, etc. All the while I was telling him to shoot some better ammo through it. He wouldn't listen for over a year, and every range trip went home extremely dissapointed with his 8+ MOA rifle. I insisted we put some rounds together before the last trip, and slug the barrel. It turns out his is .311, and shoots just over 1 MOA with the load we put together. Next trip he wants to do a full workup on it, and he couldn't be happier now. Put something worth shooting through it before doing anything else.
My .02-
Brandon

x2!

Russian use the term 7.62 as a distance from land to land. Others(like the USofA) use 7.62 to denote distance from grove to grove. so the grove diameter on the Mosin Nagants is larger than .308. Most ammo uses a 308 bullet which is too small. A scope, stock and anything else aint gonna do jack crap if your projectile isn't being stabilized. Sight picture of the Mosin is less than favorable. what i did was paint two small white dots on my rear sight on each side of the grove and i dotted the post as well. that actually helped alot.

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinSlug.htm

Loading a .310 to .312 bullet depending on what your bore slugs at will increase accuracy.

croc4
01-11-2011, 7:58 PM
I chuckled at a few of the comments on this thread, seems some people think they need to spend big dollars for small groups.

Of the mosins I have scoped/sporterized, all of them with reloads will put most rifles I see at the range to shame considering the price difference and I would not feel out gunned competing against any modern rifle.

The key to mosin accuracy (IMO)

1. good solid mount, I prefer the drill and tap mounts over the scout type.
2. bed the action and float the barrel ~2" in front of the chamber
3. modify the trigger, polish the mating surfaces and install a better sear engagement surface, or install the timney trigger.
4. re-crown the barrel, or in the case of a 91/30 shorten and re-crown

I did this for a buddies rifle, and with reloads he got an amazing 3/8-1/2 group (or smaller, don't remember exactly, but it was 5rnds into a single hole) at 50yrds (yeah 50yrds is not the end all be all, but still darn good).

Now I understand the "its only a $80 rifle", that is fine, but when you take an $80 rifle and make it shoot better or just as good as a rifle 3 times that, its all good.

if you get down to brass tacks, what is a rifle really worth?, is a rifle worth the price?, or worth the groups?. To me I'll take 'groups' all day long, I mean really if a rifle costs $1K and doesn't shoot for crap, is it worth 1K?

But I don't plan on selling most......ok any of my collection, so I might be 'slightly' biased ;-)

Croc4

nitewing117
01-12-2011, 7:28 PM
I did some basic accurizing on my Mosin and it made a world of difference. I free floated the barrel, put a shim to support the very end, polished the trigger

I did the same thing with mine, It helped a lot. I can keep most of my shots within the 9 ring at 100 yards with iron sights.