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SWAT326
12-31-2010, 11:57 PM
Ok, here it is.
CA allows you to openly carry a handgun in public, unloaded. I know there was a dispute with CA and open carry, but the ban didn't pass. My question is this, how do you have to be to "Open carry"? I am 19 years old, and I recently legally possessed a Glock 22, using a Intra-Family Handgun Transaction, and I have my HSC. I read on a website you can legally "open carry" at age 18, but is that true?


My questions to the "T":
Can I legally "open carry" my Glock 22?
I am 19, can I "open carry" at all?


PS: The reason I would want to "open carry", is because, Its pretty sick =)

Librarian
01-01-2011, 12:09 AM
PLEASE go read http://californiaopencarry.org/

Don't even think about OC until you really understand what you are doing.

jtmkinsd
01-01-2011, 12:13 AM
Ok, here it is.
CA allows you to openly carry a handgun in public, unloaded. I know there was a dispute with CA and open carry, but the ban didn't pass. My question is this, how do you have to be to "Open carry"? I am 19 years old, and I recently legally possessed a Glock 22, using a Intra-Family Handgun Transaction, and I have my HSC. I read on a website you can legally "open carry" at age 18, but is that true?


My questions to the "T":
Can I legally "open carry" my Glock 22?
I am 19, can I "open carry" at all?


PS: The reason I would want to "open carry", is because, Its pretty sick =)

Start by educating yourself. http://californiaopencarry.org/

When you think you know enough...educate yourself some more.

There are a LOT of things to consider when open carrying in CA. It would not be "sick" for you to miss a detail and lose your gun rights for the rest of your life...fair warning.

Ron-Solo
01-01-2011, 12:16 AM
If you want to OC because you think it's "sick" you need to take some time and grow up a little more. Just my opinion. There are a lot of hazards where you can easily find yourself in violation of many laws.

Cokebottle
01-01-2011, 12:20 AM
If you want to OC because you think it's "sick" you need to take some time and grow up a little more. Just my opinion. There are a lot of hazards where you can easily find yourself in violation of many laws.
+10,000

Gun free school zones are just one of the potential pitfalls, and a conviction under 626.9 means that you would have to surrender your Glock and would be prohibited from owning possessing touching a firearm for 10 years.

You can pretty much write off open carry in most metropolitan areas due to the proximity of schools.

Dexster
01-01-2011, 12:23 AM
If you want to OC because you think it's "sick" you need to take some time and grow up a little more. Just my opinion. There are a lot of hazards where you can easily find yourself in violation of many laws.

Yep. Wanting to carry a gun around to be cool isn't the way to go. If you really want to open carry you might be better starting off in the arm forces and then when you get out you wont want anything to do with Open Carry :)

SWAT326
01-01-2011, 12:34 AM
Ok, my bad =/

I understand what I am getting into, Im not going to do it anymore...

Im sorry if I offended anyone by using the word "sick"...

I just really like guns, and I thought it would be nice to OC...

But I was reading about it, and I found out, that its a pain in the ***...

jtmkinsd
01-01-2011, 12:42 AM
Ok, my bad =/

I understand what I am getting into, Im not going to do it anymore...

Im sorry if I offended anyone by using the word "sick"...

I just really like guns, and I thought it would be nice to OC...

But I was reading about it, and I found out, that its a pain in the ***...

We don't mean to pile on...but there are real examples...of very educated people who are now in peril of losing their rights because of how difficult it is to "reasonably know" where a school zone is. The last thing we want is for anyone to lose what's left of their rights on a technicality.

Cokebottle
01-01-2011, 12:49 AM
We don't mean to pile on...but there are real examples...of very educated people who are now in peril of losing their rights because of how difficult it is to "reasonably know" where a school zone is. The last thing we want is for anyone to lose what's left of their rights on a technicality.
Theseus already has, and he is an OC activist and fully versed in the law.

QQQ
01-01-2011, 12:58 AM
Might I suggest locked unloaded container carry? People criticize the practice but it is indeed legal- and you don't have to worry about the 1000' rule (as far as I know).

Marcus Cicero
01-01-2011, 1:04 AM
Ignore those attacks against you for wanting to do something just because you have the desire to do so and embrace the wisdom of those instructing you to look before you leap.

The only maturity required here is the desire and effort to discover the facts before you act.

Seeing as you have taken the initiative to ask before you find yourself in trouble I would say you are well on your way in this regard.

After all a wise man counts the cost before he begins construction.

CitaDeL
01-01-2011, 9:27 AM
The reason I would want to "open carry", is because, Its pretty sick =)

If you want to OC because you think it's "sick" you need to take some time and grow up a little more. Just my opinion. There are a lot of hazards where you can easily find yourself in violation of many laws.

From my perspective, there is only one reason to carry a firearm; You have resolved it in your mind and heart that you are prepared to take the life of another human being in the event that they pose a credible threat of grave bodily injury or death. Whether that is to carry openly, concealed, or locked in a secure case- each method of carry must at some point be justified by this basic reasoning. If you do not have a clear picture of what this means, then you have no business possessing a firearm at all, much less carrying it exposed.

QQQ
01-01-2011, 10:52 AM
From my perspective, there is only one reason to carry a firearm; You have resolved it in your mind and heart that you are prepared to take the life of another human being in the event that they pose a credible threat of grave bodily injury or death.

I would add the disclaimer that such is not the case when you are on your way to attend a target shooting or hunting event. Guns are for more than just killing people, you know.

CitaDeL
01-01-2011, 6:39 PM
I would add the disclaimer that such is not the case when you are on your way to attend a target shooting or hunting event. Guns are for more than just killing people, you know.

Yes, they make nice neat holes in paper to show you how accurate your aim is and make fluffy animals into food, however one does not carry their firearm to the range or to a hunting venue- for that, you would be transporting them.

Even if you have guns for no other reason than for sporting purposes, you must at least acknowledge that they can be used for self defense.

Hopalong
01-01-2011, 8:02 PM
Apparently it's a generational thing, but my view is that

Anyone using the word "sick" as it pertains to a gun, rather than a health issue,

Should not be carrying a gun. Probably shouldn't even own one.

Uriah02
01-01-2011, 8:07 PM
If you want to OC because you think it's "sick" you need to take some time and grow up a little more. Just my opinion. There are a lot of hazards where you can easily find yourself in violation of many laws.

+10

edog11
01-01-2011, 8:55 PM
I would open carry but too many things to worry about for me at this time to OC on a daily basis. Is there a smart phone ap that could alert us when we are close to a non carry zone?

Omil
01-01-2011, 9:13 PM
Ok, here it is.
CA allows you to openly carry a handgun in public, unloaded. I know there was a dispute with CA and open carry, but the ban didn't pass. My question is this, how do you have to be to "Open carry"? I am 19 years old, and I recently legally possessed a Glock 22, using a Intra-Family Handgun Transaction, and I have my HSC. I read on a website you can legally "open carry" at age 18, but is that true?


My questions to the "T":
Can I legally "open carry" my Glock 22?
I am 19, can I "open carry" at all?


PS: The reason I would want to "open carry", is because, Its pretty sick =)

Please don't do this!

Army
01-02-2011, 2:34 PM
Please don't do this!
Why not?

He is legal to own and carry a handgun, and should he follow the law fully and carefully, he will be prepared to defend himself in California. Sure he's young, so what? Regardless of his use of words, he sounds mature enough to seek answers from others.

I think carrying my guns openly is ''*****in''', or is that word also not allowed to be used around firearms?

paul0660
01-02-2011, 2:55 PM
Apparently it's a generational thing, but my view is that

Anyone using the word "sick" as it pertains to a gun, rather than a health issue,

Should not be carrying a gun. Probably shouldn't even own one.

I tend to agree. It's a tool, not a chick magnet.

he will be prepared to defend himself in California.

From someone less well armed than he is, which would be almost nobody. A butter knife in the hands of an aggressive criminal is more dangerous than an empty gun on the belt of a law abiding citizen.

Army
01-02-2011, 3:05 PM
From someone less well armed than he is, which would be almost nobody. A butter knife in the hands of an aggressive criminal is more dangerous than an empty gun on the belt of a law abiding citizen.

Obviously, you have not enough knowledge of open carry yourself.

While the gun must indeed be empty as per law, NOTHING prohibits the carry of loaded magazines (or any ammo for that matter), nor prevents you from making the gun fully ready to fire should your life be in immediate danger, or during the time between calling 911 and the arrival of LEO's.

Maintaining awareness at all times is not only prudent, but keeps you out of immediate danger.

''Be prepared'' isn't just for the Boy Scouts.

Army
01-02-2011, 3:10 PM
BTW, saying ''sick'' is used exactly the same as us old farts using ''cool'', ''bad'', ''gnarly'', ''far-out'', and/or even ''groovy'' :yawn:

paul0660
01-02-2011, 3:13 PM
Obviously, you have not enough knowledge of open carry yourself.

While the gun must indeed be empty as per law, NOTHING prohibits the carry of loaded magazines (or any ammo for that matter), nor prevents you from making the gun fully ready to fire should your life be in immediate danger, or during the time between calling 911 and the arrival of LEO's.

Wow really? Well that changes everything!

Cokebottle
01-02-2011, 3:44 PM
Teller drill.
21ft minimum distance between BG with a knife and LAC with a holstered gun.

What does that distance move to when "draw-aim-fire" changes to "draw gun-draw mag-load-chamber-aim-fire"

50ft? 100ft?

At what distance would one typically become aware of the threat?
I submit that retreat is a better option than UOC. You just don't have time to do everything you need to do to be able to shoot the threat and still have a reasonable ability to show that the shooting was justified.

Anti-Hero
01-02-2011, 3:49 PM
Unloaded Open Carry is only viable as a political statement, not as effective self defense. It it were, then why do people recommend a chambered round for concealed carry? You simply dont have the time. Adding an additional step such as inserting a magazine is just being optimistic at best.

jtmkinsd
01-02-2011, 4:14 PM
Unloaded Open Carry is only viable as a political statement, not as effective self defense. It it were, then why do people recommend a chambered round for concealed carry? You simply dont have the time. Adding an additional step such as inserting a magazine is just being optimistic at best.

I disagree...while in an immediate self-defense situation this would be true, in just about any other situation it would save lives...including your own...if in a situation where a gunman is randomly picking targets you would have the extra 3 seconds to load and ready the weapon. It also would be a huge deterrent for a bad guy walking in someplace with evil intent and seeing someone with a gun on their hip.

CitaDeL
01-02-2011, 4:40 PM
Tueller (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill) drill.
21ft minimum distance between BG with a knife and LAC with a holstered gun.

What does that distance move to when "draw-aim-fire" changes to "draw gun-draw mag-load-chamber-aim-fire"

50ft? 100ft?

At what distance would one typically become aware of the threat?
I submit that retreat is a better option than UOC. You just don't have time to do everything you need to do to be able to shoot the threat and still have a reasonable ability to show that the shooting was justified.

Fixed it for you.

And this is a no-win scenario for anyone with a gun... loaded or not. I would say that the Tueller Drill has no merit in the context that it wouldnt help even if the gun were loaded.

No, this is a Gratia-Hupp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzanna_Hupp) drill, and the only way you fail the drill is by showing up to the Luby's massacre unarmed because the law doesnt allow you.

Sometimes retreat is not possible and to say that it is better to cower and die unarmed than to UOC is emblematic of the divide between open carry flash mob and the CCW only crowd. There is a reasonable middle ground if each side can compromise a little.

Agro
01-02-2011, 4:56 PM
From my perspective, there is only one reason to carry a firearm; You have resolved it in your mind and heart that you are prepared to take the life of another human being in the event that they pose a credible threat of grave bodily injury or death. Whether that is to carry openly, concealed, or locked in a secure case- each method of carry must at some point be justified by this basic reasoning. If you do not have a clear picture of what this means, then you have no business possessing a firearm at all, much less carrying it exposed.

I'd like to just disagree with part of this statement. I do not think that possessing a firearm means that you have to be prepared to take another humans life. Plenty of individuals own firearms solely for the purpose of hunting, and no not hunting humans.

Now if you want to open carry or keep a firearm at home for self defense, then you should be ready to use it. The only reason for either relates to taking a human life.

Cokebottle
01-02-2011, 5:05 PM
I'd like to just disagree with part of this statement. I do not think that possessing a firearm means that you have to be prepared to take another humans life. Plenty of individuals own firearms solely for the purpose of hunting, and no not hunting humans.

Now if you want to open carry or keep a firearm at home for self defense, then you should be ready to use it. The only reason for either relates to taking a human life.
He said "carry", not "own".

Agro
01-02-2011, 5:08 PM
He said "carry", not "own".

He said "then you have no business possessing a firearm at all" and I didn't think that meant carry, but I took possess as having the same meaning as owning.

Jack L
01-02-2011, 5:08 PM
SWAT326

There is a lot to consider. First......training, good training and practice. Second study all the legal ramifications. You can become a target (a threat to a bad guy) if a threat wants to take you out first before he does the crime. He carries concealed, sees you with your piece on your hip, walks up close, whips out his canon and puts a couple rounds into you. Have you thought about that yet? Or maybe a LEO mistakes you for the threat at an incident you happen upon. How would you handle that?

Sure it is possible to help someone or defend yourself starting out with an unloaded weapon but the liabilities are many to consider.

Check out the online information concerning open carry. Train, take some good courses. Talk to a lot of members here and read many posts. Also ask some of the LEOs questions.

Then it's your call as you have been trained and educated.

E Pluribus Unum
01-02-2011, 5:11 PM
Ok, here it is.
CA allows you to openly carry a handgun in public, unloaded. I know there was a dispute with CA and open carry, but the ban didn't pass. My question is this, how do you have to be to "Open carry"? I am 19 years old, and I recently legally possessed a Glock 22, using a Intra-Family Handgun Transaction, and I have my HSC. I read on a website you can legally "open carry" at age 18, but is that true?


My questions to the "T":
Can I legally "open carry" my Glock 22?
I am 19, can I "open carry" at all?


You are too young.

Yes, it is legal, but....

You are too young.

You obviously do not have the resources to defend yourself in court and remember, you cannot be within 1000 feet of a school.


PS: The reason I would want to "open carry", is because, Its pretty sick =)

Wow.... really?

This statement, coupled with a "SWAT" username?

I don't want to sound condescending but please listen to me on this. This is not Call of Duty. Carrying a weapon is a VERY serious responsibility. It should not be considered lightly. It should not be done because it is "sick".

Cokebottle
01-02-2011, 5:19 PM
He said "then you have no business possessing a firearm at all" and I didn't think that meant carry, but I took possess as having the same meaning as owning.
From your quote:
Originally Posted by CitaDeL http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=5537101#post5537101)
From my perspective, there is only one reason to carry a firearm; You have resolved it in your mind and heart that you are prepared to take the life of another human being in the event that they pose a credible threat of grave bodily injury or death. Whether that is to carry openly, concealed, or locked in a secure case- each method of carry must at some point be justified by this basic reasoning. If you do not have a clear picture of what this means, then you have no business possessing a firearm at all, much less carrying it exposed.

Yes... he said "possessing" in the last line, but in the context that we must all be prepared for the eventuality that one of our guns may be needed for defensive purposes, even if our interests are strictly as a hobby.

meaty-btz
01-02-2011, 5:25 PM
Fixed it for you.

And this is a no-win scenario for anyone with a gun... loaded or not. I would say that the Tueller Drill has no merit in the context that it wouldnt help even if the gun were loaded.

No, this is a Gratia-Hupp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzanna_Hupp) drill, and the only way you fail the drill is by showing up to the Luby's massacre unarmed because the law doesnt allow you.

Sometimes retreat is not possible and to say that it is better to cower and die unarmed than to UOC is emblematic of the divide between open carry flash mob and the CCW only crowd. There is a reasonable middle ground if each side can compromise a little.

+1
I too have noted this divide. It is nearly as conentious as Dem vs Repub. There are not enough of us to sustain such a divide. Less contention, more cooperation.

CCW unless unlicenced and unregulated by the state isnt enough. $$ for carry is a losing propisition in the long run unless we go for the completion of carry rights as being an unregulatable right. LOC & Concieled w/o permiting, it should be OUR choice, not the governments.

Sunday
01-02-2011, 5:27 PM
The effort as well should go to concealed carry. Besides guns are always LOADED ! To think otherwise is stupid.

N6ATF
01-02-2011, 5:55 PM
Fixed it for you.

And this is a no-win scenario for anyone with a gun... loaded or not. I would say that the Tueller Drill has no merit in the context that it wouldnt help even if the gun were loaded.

No, this is a Gratia-Hupp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzanna_Hupp) drill, and the only way you fail the drill is by showing up to the Luby's massacre unarmed because the law doesnt allow you.

Sometimes retreat is not possible and to say that it is better to cower and die unarmed than to UOC is emblematic of the divide between open carry flash mob and the CCW only crowd. There is a reasonable middle ground if each side can compromise a little.

The Gratia-Hupp drill. :King:

You can become a target (a threat to a bad guy) if a threat wants to take you out first before he does the crime. He carries concealed, sees you with your piece on your hip, walks up close, whips out his canon and puts a couple rounds into you. Have you thought about that yet?

FUD. Only one incident anyone can cite of a OCer being targeted, likely due to the OCer being in condition white. Prison interviews and understanding the self-preservation instinct of all sane living organisms point to any criminals attempting OC disarms being extreme statistical outliers, just as insanity in the general population. The overwhelming and proven likelihood is that 1) the OCer will not be spotted or 2) if spotted, the OCer's mere presence will scare the criminals into moving on to a soft target

Jack L
01-02-2011, 6:23 PM
The Gratia-Hupp drill. :King:



FUD. Only one incident anyone can cite of a OCer being targeted, likely due to the OCer being in condition white. Prison interviews and understanding the self-preservation instinct of all sane living organisms point to any criminals attempting OC disarms being extreme statistical outliers, just as insanity in the general population. The overwhelming and proven likelihood is that 1) the OCer will not be spotted or 2) if spotted, the OCer's mere presence will scare the criminals into moving on to a soft target


A threat is a threat. You go walking in south central with your open carry and see what happens. Go downtown Oakland and hang at a area that cops like to drive fast thru. Carrying a firearm can set off not only a bad guy but also the unbalanced who may what to challenge you. Just because you cannot find some published article doesn't mean carrying open can't be a liability. Because it is so uncommon, we can only assume a bad guy sees you in his area you happened into, would not take you for LE or even another gangbanger.

Gunfights happen all the time between parties knowing each is carrying. No deterrent with criminals in the hood at all. I have been at a number of calls where point blank standoffs between parties who are both armed, the 'others' weapon was no deterrent to their intent. In fact I've been to calls knife verses handgun. Guns do not always deter crime, morbidity or mortality incidents.

Just saying, there's a lot more to it than a published article from my experience in the streets.

Can it deter, sure it can. Can you get involved in something over your head, that is possible as well.

N6ATF
01-02-2011, 6:42 PM
A threat is a threat. You go walking in south central with your open carry and see what happens. Go downtown Oakland and hang at a area that cops like to drive fast thru. Carrying a firearm can set off not only a bad guy but also the unbalanced who may what to challenge you. Just because you cannot find some published article doesn't mean carrying open can't be a liability. Because it is so uncommon, we can only assume a bad guy sees you in his area you happened into, would not take you for LE or even another gangbanger.

Just be in condition yellow, don't unnecessarily endanger yourself just like you wouldn't if you were disarmed. That includes not invading hostile gang territory like the victim-disarming CLEOs constantly suggest whenever the RTBA is brought up. It's not that I, you, or any of us, can't find more than one published article, it's that THE GOVERNMENT which loves to campaign for our disarmament can only scream that it is a massive problem, while not providing a single case file, report, nothing. The government, which has the monopoly on such things, can't provide evidence, only unproven assertions.

Gunfights happen all the time between parties knowing each is carrying. No deterrent with criminals in the hood at all. I have been at a number of calls where point blank standoffs between parties who are both armed, the 'others' weapon was no deterrent to their intent. In fact I've been to calls knife verses handgun. Guns do not always deter crime, morbidity or mortality incidents.

In these cases it is mutual self-preservation/mutually assured destruction. They can either attack each other, or end up a corpse with a weapon tucked in their waistband. There is no peaceful outcome.

Just saying, there's a lot more to it than a published article from my experience in the streets.

Can it deter, sure it can. Can you get involved in something over your head, that is possible as well.

It's just not such a massive liability that you would be better off staying home and curling up into the fetal position. To be condition yellow in hostile gang territory, you need to roll around in an APC, tank, or a Badger (http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/howe-and-howe-tech-badger-assault-vehicle/).

Jack L
01-02-2011, 6:53 PM
Just be in condition yellow, don't unnecessarily endanger yourself just like you wouldn't if you were disarmed. That includes not invading hostile gang territory like the victim-disarming CLEOs constantly suggest whenever the RTBA is brought up. It's not that I, you, or any of us, can't find more than one published article, it's that THE GOVERNMENT which loves to campaign for our disarmament can only scream that it is a massive problem, while not providing a single case file, report, nothing. The government, which has the monopoly on such things, can't provide evidence, only unproven assertions.



In these cases it is mutual self-preservation/mutually assured destruction. They can either attack each other, or end up a corpse with a weapon tucked in their waistband. There is no peaceful outcome.



It's just not such a massive liability that you would be better off staying home and curling up into the fetal position. To be condition yellow in hostile gang territory, you need to roll around in an APC, tank, or a Badger (http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/howe-and-howe-tech-badger-assault-vehicle/).

I hope SWAT326 is reading all these posts.

N6ATF
01-02-2011, 7:09 PM
Yep, though I probably would have hit the X somewhere in the first page. LOL

paul0660
01-02-2011, 7:16 PM
Swat gave up back at post #7.