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View Full Version : Now that I acutally have a CZ


rojocorsa
12-31-2010, 4:44 PM
Well, I finally have one and it sure is a fine rifle. Definitely shoots better than I do.

I don't like how I shot at all. Granted I did plink at the steel plates more than I shot at targets. That's because I felt rushed today. Especially because you pay for your time in Laguna Seca. I think that's psychologically affecting me so I wasn't fully relaxed like I should have been. Ideally, I want to shoot somewhere where I can feel like I have all the time in the world. I know first hand that when I shoot slower, I do better. Perhaps another psychological flaw that I had today was the fact that knowing that there was a whole damn box of .22LR was also making me shoot faster than I should have (when I was actually shooting at the targets). I need to pretend that each of my rounds costs $2 or something like that. Maybe I'll try doing it single shot next time. (Oh, and I now understand why real target rifles are only single shot).

Another personal flaw that I think I had today was not pulling the trigger properly because it was so light---somehow I felt like my gun was moving around despite shooting supported on the bench. I meant to also shoot prone, but like I said, I felt rushed and didn't bother. I shall next time. So either I was jerking the trigger (which is something I try not to do) or the "technical recoil" of the gun made it feel like it moved around when I shot. I am wondering if a longer trigger pull might help my case. And if it can't be made longer, maybe somehow a little bit heaver, like a Garand's?

The gun itself is nice, and it shoots nice. The first time I put in the bolt on Wednesday night, it was rough as hell, but now it has smoothed out so it feels good. I like the clean ejection too. I let americigerm fire the rifle, and he liked it. Even said the beech stock was nice. The sights are fine though I still have to "find" the sweetspot for ideal head placement. I think I was having problems with that today which was making my sights look a little blurred. I still need to learn the behavior of the sights in relation to where it hits. 50 yards is roughly 45-46, and I don't know if it has anything to do with the way I was printing. If the target were to be imposed on a Cartesian plane, all my shots for all my targets would be strictly on the second quadrant--or the one where sine is positive--or the upper left hand corner. :p I am not sure if I am shooting to the left because of my trigger pull or whatever else. But I shot consistently in that upper left corner. There was some wind--could that be it? Or is wind even a factor @ 50 yards.

The load I used was a Winchester Super X copper plated 36gr HP "high velocity" (I think they're all Super-X though it came in a white, not silver box. That's what the headstamp says anyway. It wasn't the 333 round box, for the record). There is some fouling in my bore right now but I suspect that it's just unburned powder.

The target I was shooting was a square sheet that measures 21"x21." On it are five separate circles; two on the top, two on the bottom, and one in the middle. These measure 6" in diameter.

Here was the first target that I shot at.

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7690/cztargets001.jpg

I can't remember is this was the second or third target (shot a total of 30 rounds, 10 per target).

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/1797/cztargets003.jpg

Anyway, the bottom 5-shot group here is the best one from today, IMO. It measures a little under an inch from the central points of the two farthest holes. :hide

Here is the third (or second target). You can acutally see a flyer on the left edge of the image, otherwise, there are nine holes.
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/4294/cztargets002.jpg

I think I can do better next time and I know I need to pace myself.

G-forceJunkie
12-31-2010, 5:04 PM
Buy some Wolf Match Target ammo and really see what it can do.

rojocorsa
12-31-2010, 5:08 PM
Admittedly, since I guess I am still a "novice" shooter, I need way much more practice.


How is this ammo compared to Remington Golden Turds?

rojocorsa
01-13-2011, 10:12 PM
Targets shot last week on the prone. Showing some improvement.

I'd say it's time to redeem myself. Shot today @ what is supposed to be 50yds (I can't believe how short that actually is). But they tell me it's 50. The watershed moment came when I put my rear sight down to the lowest level (25m) and did a 6'o clock hold on the circles. You'll see that my first target was full of holes, but clear of the black (both clusters are circled by my pen).

I guess my groups were decent today, but I think I STILL need to improve on trigger control and follow through. (Trust me, I've come a looooong way since the first time I shot a rifle at scout camp in 2004).

I am fairly satisfied overall, but I think that towards the end, I stepped up my pace and my groups opened up some. I can still see that the metal in the bore is shiny, and the only fouling there is is probably unburnt powder. I am not concerned about it at all.

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/2782/cztargets8jan11001.jpg

You can see that my overshot group is tighter, because I was shooting more conservatively today. I was lucky that there weren't that many people today (and it wasn't that noisy) until a guy came and shot an AR next to me (including brass landing where I was). Otherwise it was fine, but I admit to shooting faster towards the end.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/2629/cztargets8jan11002.jpg

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/813/cztargets8jan11003.jpg
First bullseye with my CZ. ;D

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4641/cztargets8jan11004.jpg
I would assume that was my best overall group today. I'm certain it happened at around 3/4 of the time I was there before I was done. By this time, I had been shifting around trying to find a good, stable position.

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/5619/cztargets8jan11005.jpg
Last target. It's OK, but at least by now I now where to hold the target and got my elevation correct.

All shooting I did today was in the supported prone with sandbags.

What's weird is that the rear sight setting will be on the black if I leave it @ 25m, even though I was supposedly shooting at 50yds. I still can't believe that's 50yds. I did notice that like last week, my shots are hitting more on the left than on the right. It doesn't bother me, but I thought it was worth pointing out. I'm still working on shrinking those groups before I touch it.

And being the cheap bastard I am, I decided I don't want any aftermarket sights for the time being. I want teh ammos!

iareConfusE
01-13-2011, 11:34 PM
Get an optic on your rifle. Then you'll be able to easily tell if it's your trigger pull. Iron sights won't get you grouping super tight at 50 yards because there's always going to be a very slight deviation in your point of aim. You aren't always going to point that barrel in the exact same spot as your prior shot.

Izzy43
01-14-2011, 12:53 AM
Not bad shooting with iron sights on a new rifle. I have a CZ UltrLux, similiar to yours just a longer barrel. It really likes Federal Automatch. I get it at Walmart locally here in SoCal. Worth a try in that rifle. If you feel the trigger is light you should try pulling the trigger with just the tip of your finger, not in the crease of the first knuckle. That will help you to keep from moving the rifle to the left when you shoot. With iron sights a six o'clock hold always works best for me otherwise the front sight post covers too much of the targets center and its hard to tell where I am really aiming. My groups shrunk alot when I used the 6 o'clock hold.

Good luck with the new rifle, you made a very good choice in getting a CZ. They are real shooters out of the box.

You might also want to go to rimfirecentral.com and do a search in the CZ forum for a "YoDave trigger kit". Eliminates all the creep and allows you to get the trigger pull down to 1 lb or less and is available for $20 on eBay. Great for target shooting and you can always adjust it heavier if you use the rifle to hunt.

tkrrox
01-14-2011, 6:10 AM
yo dave trigger kit on ebay...i used a eric brooks and it took out all creep...the best trigger out of all my guns (i've since heard people are having a lot of problems with getting kits from eric-that's why i suggested the other)

WDE91
01-14-2011, 9:50 AM
do this trigger job from my San Diego shooting buddy All4fun
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197288
Also I suggest you join up at RFC they have a very large CZ crowd
good people and all questions can be answered there

Izzy43
01-14-2011, 10:21 AM
I suggest that you go to Rimfirecentral.com and look at the installation process for the YoDave trigger kit. I have no interest in selling these kits or any affiliation with the supplier. It is a simple kit that takes about 10 minutes to install, no gunsmithing type work required. It removes all the creep in the trigger and gives you a lighter, fully adjustable pull.

Please do as you wish but this kit is so simple to install and works great. I have one in my CZ UltrLux.

dfletcher
01-14-2011, 11:52 AM
Exactly which CZ model 452 do you have?

The one deficiency they all have is the trigger. Instead of the kit I put in a softer trigger spring on all my 452s, have no idea what it's supposed to fit but it works great. I stoned the sear engagement to get the best pull, to me the engagement is worked on in about the same fashion as a Winchester 70.

There are some interesting, but kind of long winded, videos on You Tube regarding the 452 trigger.

olhunter
01-14-2011, 2:33 PM
Forgive me if you already know this, but...


Focus on the front sight, not the target or rear sight.

Relax. The only tension anywhere should be on the trigger.

Breathe out half a breath and hold it while squeezing the trigger. If you feel yourself tensing up again, relax again.

Your CZ should be shooting groups that will fit into the center red circle at 100 yards.

Try different ammo. .22's are picky. When you get the right one, you'll know it.

Try a scope.

Have your eyes checked. You wouldn't believe the number of people who think they see fine, but don't.

Work on your natural point of aim. Kinda hard to explain, but get into your shooting position, close your eyes and totally relax. Open your eyes and don't move and see where you're aiming. Now scoot your whole body around so the sights are pointing as close to the target without putting any other input into it. Then close your eyes and try it again. Now when you get your sights on target, your adjustments are small and you remove tension from your position. Your goal is to be on target, or very close to it, without pushing, pulling or twisting anything.

Izzy43
01-14-2011, 3:26 PM
Forgive me if you already know this, but...


Focus on the front sight, not the target or rear sight.

Relax. The only tension anywhere should be on the trigger.

Breathe out half a breath and hold it while squeezing the trigger. If you feel yourself tensing up again, relax again.

Your CZ should be shooting groups that will fit into the center red circle at 100 yards.

Try different ammo. .22's are picky. When you get the right one, you'll know it.

Try a scope.

Have your eyes checked. You wouldn't believe the number of people who think they see fine, but don't.

Work on your natural point of aim. Kinda hard to explain, but get into your shooting position, close your eyes and totally relax. Open your eyes and don't move and see where you're aiming. Now scoot your whole body around so the sights are pointing as close to the target without putting any other input into it. Then close your eyes and try it again. Now when you get your sights on target, your adjustments are small and you remove tension from your position. Your goal is to be on target, or very close to it, without pushing, pulling or twisting anything.

Great advice.

rojocorsa
01-18-2011, 4:08 PM
Not bad shooting with iron sights on a new rifle. I have a CZ UltrLux, similiar to yours just a longer barrel. It really likes Federal Automatch. I get it at Walmart locally here in SoCal. Worth a try in that rifle. If you feel the trigger is light you should try pulling the trigger with just the tip of your finger, not in the crease of the first knuckle. That will help you to keep from moving the rifle to the left when you shoot. With iron sights a six o'clock hold always works best for me otherwise the front sight post covers too much of the targets center and its hard to tell where I am really aiming. My groups shrunk alot when I used the 6 o'clock hold.

Good luck with the new rifle, you made a very good choice in getting a CZ. They are real shooters out of the box.

You might also want to go to rimfirecentral.com and do a search in the CZ forum for a "YoDave trigger kit". Eliminates all the creep and allows you to get the trigger pull down to 1 lb or less and is available for $20 on eBay. Great for target shooting and you can always adjust it heavier if you use the rifle to hunt.

I'll look out for that ammo, thanks. That first batch of .22 I got last September is only here because that's what was cheapest at the Cow Palace show that month. I think we can agree that it's "good enough" for general shooting requirements. Besides, I still have 3 out of 5 boxes before I need to buy more ammo. (And thank god that AB 962 is dead).

Even though I am not the best shooter, I found that I also shot best using the 6 oclock hold. (which is now standard procedure to me) I've actually been using the pad of my finger to disengage the trigger since day 1. Maybe I need a little more finesse. I like how it feels and it has these inherent trigger pulling advantages as bonus.


And I've seen your groups with the Ultra Lux on the match threads, not even funny. ;)

I knew I made the right choice in getting the CZ (was mosr likely going to buy an el-cheapo Savage Mk.II (which I know is a very good choice in of itself, but it's was just too ugly for y tastes and it did not have the sights that the CZ does. The sights were the final nail in the coffin that warranted my decision. I couldn't be happier with the 452 right now. I just wish mags were cheap and plentiful.

rojocorsa
01-18-2011, 4:16 PM
Exactly which CZ model 452 do you have?

The one deficiency they all have is the trigger. Instead of the kit I put in a softer trigger spring on all my 452s, have no idea what it's supposed to fit but it works great. I stoned the sear engagement to get the best pull, to me the engagement is worked on in about the same fashion as a Winchester 70.

There are some interesting, but kind of long winded, videos on You Tube regarding the 452 trigger.

I have what's listed as the CZ-452 Special Military Trainer on the CZ.usa website.

It's just a beech stocked version the CZ-452 Lux (which has walnut). I really don't care about the wood and I heard that beech was stronger anyway and most importantly, CHEAPER, which is why I got it. And my stock looks plenty decent, so it's not really an issue.

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/8310/cz001.jpg

http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/1465/27376719.jpg

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7638/cz003.jpg











I guess I would upgrade the trigger in the future (don't feel like doing it now because of $$$$), but I also keep hearing about action screw upgrades. Are those worht looking at too, when the time comes to upgrade?



Also, a small question to you CZ connousieurs...are these free floated at all? (Not that it really matters to me right now).

ChaparralCommando
01-18-2011, 5:16 PM
I have the Trainer too. I did a trigger improvement job on it using a kit. The method is not as consistent (tried it on another 452 and had some creep) as the Timney replacement, which my dad put on his silhouette 452 American. I always shoot subsonic ammunition, which gives better results. Wolf Match Target, Aguila subsonics (all varieties have been fine), or Remington Subsonic all perform well. You can't free float the Trainer or Lux since they have the forward screw. You can test to see if the stock is touching in other areas, though I don't remember if I ever did that. Action screws you can get in Allen hex, which I think is just for aesthetics if you like the different screw type and will be taking it apart often. If you are sticking to open sights, I would recommend seeing about the ghost ring rear blade, which I got years ago from Eric Brookes, who I think is no longer in business though. Super nice for target shooting if you can find it.

rojocorsa
02-17-2011, 11:22 PM
These are my 50 yard supported prone (just like I shot the targets above) from last Friday afternoon. Everything went great except for the range fee. I am so over stupid range fees at this point. :(

The only difference was that this time instead of using the ammo I previously mentioned, (Win Super X 36gr HV copper plated HP) I shot the 40gr LRN CCI Blazer that Big 5 had on sale. Seeing that these are my best targets yet, I don't have any regrets of buying two of those bulk packs. I know I still need to pace myself shooting, because I shot at all of those rather fast. Man, I just wish I could find a peaceful place somewhere were I could shoot and not feel rushed because of the range having to stop everyone every 15 mins to change their targets. I honestly feel like that breaks my concentration.

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/5831/cztargetsfeb001.jpg

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/4371/cztargetsfeb002.jpg

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/5568/cztargetsfeb003.jpg

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5296/cztargetsfeb004.jpg

Izzy43
02-18-2011, 9:56 AM
The YO Dave trigger kit for the CZ 452 is a great way to go. Its available on eBay (just search for CZ 452) for $20 shipped. Put one in mine and no creep and trigger pull around 16 oz. Go over to rimfirecentral.com in the CZ forum and you will read for days about this rifle, trigger, sights, action screws, striker spring, etc...

rojocorsa
02-18-2011, 10:01 AM
Before I did that, I wanted to learn how to adjust the factory trigger. But I haven't touched that because I am not sure how I would properly torque back the action screws, seeing that I only have standard screwdrivers.

I do keep hearing about that trigger kit though.

Furncliff
02-18-2011, 8:36 PM
You mentioned shooting single shot. There is a single shot adaptor for your rifle. PM or email me and I'll get the email for the supplier (he's in Ca. and specializes in CZECH firearms.

Yo Dave Trigger kit... cheap $11.00 and easy.

http://www.yodaveproducts.com/index.html

rojocorsa
02-18-2011, 11:04 PM
As of late, I've just been rolling without a single shot adapter and putting them in myself.

But since my last shooting session, I am not really sure I need to invest in one of those. I would rather put money towards some good sights instead. But thank you for the offer.

Princeau99
02-19-2011, 12:43 PM
About the trigger. I would wait until you have shot 300-500 rounds before you decide. I have an American 452 that was a little rough out of the box, but after 200 rounds, I feel it's perfect!
I just got a 452 FS and it's trigger is terrible, it will have a trigger job before the month is out.
If you plan on keeping iron sites, get the ghost rings (J&P Custom Products, LLC) If you don't want the set, the 3/16 seems to be the most popular.
At 50 yds, just elbow on the platform at the range, this cut my group size in half!
At the indoor range at 25 yds, free standing, I can equal the scoped American. This is with 58 year old eyes the require reading glasses.
Good luck.

rojocorsa
02-19-2011, 2:36 PM
I am sure that I have more than 300rds through it at this point. But I don't necessarily feel like upgrading it just yet. I honestly want to shoot the hell out of it, even stock. It's still the most accurate gun I have. I just want to shoot shoot and shoot some more. Thank God .22 isn't expensive like .303 (what my second best accurate gun shoots).


I have noticed that the bolt keeps on getting smoother, that's for sure. I remember the first time I took it out of the box and put it in the gun, that thing was so rough, that I was about lose faith in the CZs. (This gun being my first actual new out of the box gun). But then I realized that it had to settle in. So now it's fine.

Ifticar
02-19-2011, 9:16 PM
yo dave trigger kit on ebay...i used a eric brooks and it took out all creep...the best trigger out of all my guns (i've since heard people are having a lot of problems with getting kits from eric-that's why i suggested the other)

Eric's trigger kit is outstanding. Unfortunately, Eric seems have disappeared. His web site, cz452.com, has been disabled for at least six months.

Ifticar
02-19-2011, 9:19 PM
Forgive me if you already know this, but...

Try different ammo. .22's are picky. When you get the right one, you'll know it.



I have found that 40gr, CCI MiniMags work the very best in my 452 Varminter. Even better than all the different target ammo types including Wolf. YMMV.