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View Full Version : Feed ramp - Can it cause FTF


energizer
12-31-2010, 11:39 AM
Hi,

I have a browning challenger 3 that has a dent on the feed ramp. Could that be causing failure to feed? :confused:

Thanks.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=80259&stc=1&d=1293824293

Noobert
12-31-2010, 12:09 PM
Are you experiencing FTFs?

energizer
12-31-2010, 12:24 PM
Yes, I get a FTF every 2-3 rounds.

Are you experiencing FTFs?

Scratch705
12-31-2010, 12:39 PM
then yes? why don't you get that dent out then see.

energizer
12-31-2010, 1:07 PM
I did some internet research and found that polishing the feed ramp with a 600+ grit sandpaper would do the job.

Does it sound right?

Thanks

then yes? why don't you get that dent out then see.

DirtNapKing
12-31-2010, 1:26 PM
If the pin is just kissing the rim then maybe your feed ramp is not the issue. Take it to a gunsmith before you sand the ramp. If the shell is failing to fire it obviously made it into the chamber and is no longer in contact with the feed ramp. Advising folks to polish the the ramp in some cases is like telling people to run super unleaded in there Pinto. ;)

Noobert
12-31-2010, 1:34 PM
In this case, FTF is failure to feed, not fire

energizer
12-31-2010, 1:45 PM
Indeed it is failure to feed not failure to fire. When the failure happens I see that the cartridge is stuck before the chamber with the tip stuck at 12' o clock. This failure also damages the cartridge tip at 12'o clock.

I'll try to find a picture that I took some time ago.

Thanks.

barrym66
12-31-2010, 1:59 PM
Don't just blindly sand away with sheet sandpaper using your fingers - you should use a suitably shaped (rounded) sanding pad/dowel as a backing for the emery cloth/paper, or ideally a rotary tool and some polishing compound.

Is it FTF'ing on flat nose or hollow point bullets? That a pretty rough looking ramp and the ding looks like it could catch on the edge of anything but a rounded nose bullet.

Good luck and report back with your results!

DirtNapKing
12-31-2010, 2:39 PM
In this case, FTF is failure to feed, not fire
Whoopsy I swaped threads up with the kid that had the green mountain barrel issue and fail to fires. My bad! Polish away!!!!!!!!!! :D

energizer
12-31-2010, 8:03 PM
I saw a you tube video where the guy used pencil's eraser tip on sandpaper to polish the ramp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yahzMTOO34

I have a dremel tool but I'm not adept at it. What polish tool should I use? I believe that I have a small quantity of polish compound that came with dremel.

It is failing with the Remington Golden Bullet hollow points and CCI Stingers.

Don't just blindly sand away with sheet sandpaper using your fingers - you should use a suitably shaped (rounded) sanding pad/dowel as a backing for the emery cloth/paper, or ideally a rotary tool and some polishing compound.

Is it FTF'ing on flat nose or hollow point bullets? That a pretty rough looking ramp and the ding looks like it could catch on the edge of anything but a rounded nose bullet.

Good luck and report back with your results!



These abbreviations can be very interchangeable :p

Whoopsy I swaped threads up with the kid that had the green mountain barrel issue and fail to fires. My bad! Polish away!!!!!!!!!! :D

energizer
12-31-2010, 8:10 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=80321&stc=1&d=1293854991

Noobert
12-31-2010, 9:24 PM
Just remembered Box o Truth did a polishing job with a polishing bob and a Dremel

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu113.htm

First post of 2011!

barrym66
12-31-2010, 9:32 PM
I saw a you tube video where the guy used pencil's eraser tip on sandpaper to polish the ramp.

I have a dremel tool but I'm not adept at it. What polish tool should I use? I believe that I have a small quantity of polish compound that came with dremel.


Wrap some 600 to 800 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper around a round dowel or other non-metal shape about 3-4" long. Wet the paper and lightly sand the rough surface of the ramp in a longitudinal (back and forth) motion as well as a rotating motion. You want to smooth out the burrs and scratches, being careful to not remove excess material and/or change the basic shape of the ramp. Use plenty of light oil and wash away the metal particles (will look like black dirt) frequently. WD-40 works well for this.

Once smooth, wipe off the excess oil and wash well with solvent. Use a 3/8" to 1/2" diameter felt polishing wheel in the Dremel at medium speed with a medium to fine abrasive compound and some drops of water - if you don't have any polishing rouge or compound handy, try using a water slurry of Ajax or Comet cleanser and change/renew frequently. Polish with light to medium pressure until the ramp is shiny and bright.

Use eye protection with the Dremel and do it outside as the Dremel will sling some of the dirty compound around if you get it too 'wet'.

There should be no rough edges or burrs in the surface of the ramp that can catch on a bullet...use your fingernail to check.

I have had to do this on various aftermarket Glock and CZ barrels over the years, as well as to help feeding on a stock SA 1911 that had issues with hollowpoints. It has always helped when running into feed issues (assuming mags and all other potential FTF causes etc. were OK).

Have fun and good luck - and have a Happy New Year!

energizer
12-31-2010, 9:34 PM
Thanks,

I'll go through the link. BTW, I still have 2 1/2 hrs to go for the new years post ;-)

Just remembered Box o Truth did a polishing job with a polishing bob and a Dremel

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu113.htm

First post of 2011!

barrym66
12-31-2010, 9:37 PM
Here is the Dremel polishing wheel/bit I use - Dremel part #422 3/8" Polishing Cone.... see http://www.dremel.com/en-us/AttachmentsAndAccessories/Pages/AttachmentsDetail.aspx?pid=422

https://mdm.boschwebservices.com/MDMCache/English%20%5BUS%5D/t06/0000000/r00083v3.jpg

energizer
12-31-2010, 9:47 PM
Thanks Barry,

I'll try to find it at a local store tomorrow. BTW what should be the axis of rotation? Parallel to the barrel or 90 degrees (convenient with the tool).

Also, would polishing with this tool would take care of the dent?

Thanks


Here is the Dremel polishing wheel/bit I use - Dremel part #422 3/8" Polishing Cone.... see http://www.dremel.com/en-us/AttachmentsAndAccessories/Pages/AttachmentsDetail.aspx?pid=422

https://mdm.boschwebservices.com/MDMCache/English%20%5BUS%5D/t06/0000000/r00083v3.jpg

barrym66
12-31-2010, 9:54 PM
Thanks Barry,

I'll try to find it at a local store tomorrow. BTW what should be the axis of rotation? Parallel to the barrel or 90 degrees (convenient with the tool).

Also, would polishing with this tool would take care of the dent?

Thanks

The long axis of the Dremel should be 'in line' with the barrel - it will be obvious when you look at the shape of the ramp. It will be slightly concave and match the round shape of the polishing wheel/bob. Look at the video on the link that Noobert posted, it's pretty clear.

You only want to smooth out the dent - removing it completely would likely require removing more material than you need/want, and if this is your first time doing something like this, you want to go slow. You will remove metal quicker (and cheaper) than you can add it (!).

No worries, happy to help. :)

energizer
12-31-2010, 10:13 PM
Thanks for all the answers Barry. I'll keep you posted ;)


The long axis of the Dremel should be 'in line' with the barrel - it will be obvious when you look at the shape of the ramp. It will be slightly concave and match the round shape of the polishing wheel/bob. Look at the video on the link that Noobert posted, it's pretty clear.

You only want to smooth out the dent - removing it completely would likely require removing more material than you need/want, and if this is your first time doing something like this, you want to go slow. You will remove metal quicker (and cheaper) than you can add it (!).

No worries, happy to help. :)

shadow65
01-01-2011, 9:28 AM
I would say the dent is causing the bullet to try to feed at the wrong angle, too far up in this case. That causes it to hit the top of the chamber instead of sliding in.

Mail Clerk
01-02-2011, 12:37 PM
Are you sure it's not a magazine issue instead of the ramp???? It your ramp came that way then I'd have Browning look at it instead of doing a home repair job. You didn't say how long you had it in your posecession???? How many rounds you put through it before this issue happened?????

Mail Clerk

energizer
01-03-2011, 3:21 PM
Thanks, I'll try to polish it and see.

I would say the dent is causing the bullet to try to feed at the wrong angle, too far up in this case. That causes it to hit the top of the chamber instead of sliding in.


When I bought this (6 months ago) it was experiencing FTF. Not getting much help from the seller, I decided to clean it and found cakes of gunk around chamber area. Later I noticed this dent and raised the question. The firing pin assembly was pretty dirty too. Looks like it was not well maintained by the previous owner who claimed that it was flawless.

Looks like Browning will not service this one :-(
http://www.browning.com/customerservice/partsandservice/obsolete/detail.asp?firearm=0022S

Thanks.

Are you sure it's not a magazine issue instead of the ramp???? It your ramp came that way then I'd have Browning look at it instead of doing a home repair job. You didn't say how long you had it in your posecession???? How many rounds you put through it before this issue happened?????

Mail Clerk

energizer
04-04-2012, 5:34 PM
This project took an year to complete but the results were outstanding. While cleaning I had lost my guide rod and the project stalled. I ordered a new guide rod from Midwest Gun works and along with the rod, I also replaced the recoil spring.

After completing the re-assembly, I took it to range today. I fired 40 shots and no FTF or FTE.

:jump:

youtube.com/watch?v=scUkL-BEqRg

Now it completely makes sense that because of poor maintenance by previous owner, the firearm malfunctioned.

Thanks for all the help and pointers!

energizer
04-04-2012, 5:40 PM
Somehow the youtube link is not getting embedded but here is the link youtube.com/watch?v=scUkL-BEqRg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scUkL-BEqRg)

JNunez23
04-04-2012, 6:57 PM
Sand and polish time..with the size of that dent, I would be concerned about that.