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M. Sage
07-31-2006, 6:16 PM
I read on here that it's Ok to ship a gun to yourself.. but does that apply inside the PRK (I think the consensus was no)? If not, I have a couple of other questions.

I asked a local FFL about this, he said that in my situation, I'd have to have my rifle shipped to an FFL (him), pay, do a DROS and go through the ten day wait.

The story: When my wife and I moved to CA, I was kind of unclear on whether my M1 Carbine was an assault weapon or not. It has a 15 round mag, and at the time I didn't know that such a thing as a 10 round mag existed for it. So I loaned it to my father for safe keeping either until I could figure out the legality for certain (the thought of prison isn't a pretty one) or until I finally leave CA (always been in my plan from day one).

What it boils down to is this:

If I want to ship it back to myself, minus standard-cap (and after confirming there is NO bayonet lug, etc), do I have to send it to an FFL? Also, since the damn thing is already mine, if I have to ship to FFL, do I have to do DROS and wait ten days?

I'd rather wait ten more months with the rifle 1000 miles away than 10 days with it 1/2 mile from my house (it would drive me crazy)... I'd also rather drive or fly to my father's place than pay and go through DROS on principle (a record of a non-sale... since you can't sell me something I already own).

SemiAutoSam
07-31-2006, 6:19 PM
You could always ask a firearms attorney.

I only know what I would do.

Im sure Mr Weise will come along any minute and give you his 4 cent's.

Good luck

M. Sage
07-31-2006, 6:31 PM
Thanks.

Worst case scenario is that I drive myself out to visit Dad for a week... Not at all a bad idea when it comes down to it. Last time I saw him was Jan 05... and was too lazy or busy to pick up an airline case and fly home with my rifle then (also, the gun bug hadn't bit then)! Doh.

SemiAutoSam
07-31-2006, 6:36 PM
It would also depend on what kind of gun it is.

You talk about shipping an M1 Carbine but I didnt catch if you ment shipping it into or out of the PRC ?

M. Sage
07-31-2006, 6:50 PM
It would also depend on what kind of gun it is.

You talk about shipping an M1 Carbine but I didnt catch if you ment shipping it into or out of the PRC ?

Ah, thought my back-story was clear. I'll try to ramble less. :D

I'm looking to ship it INTO the PRK. It's an M1 Carbine, no evil features, would be shipping sans mag. It's mine, on loan to Dad, for "safekeeping" while I got settled/figured out firearms laws here.. and never got around to recovering.

And now I've got the bug...

monkey
07-31-2006, 6:59 PM
No, you can't ship a gun to yourself. Either the shipper or the recipient or both must be FFLs and if the recipient is not an FFL, he then must be the legal owner of the firearm. Best thing to do is go get it and bring it back with you physically, that method is perefectly legal. You'd avoid the FFL, the DROS and the 10-day wait entirely.

Hunter
07-31-2006, 7:03 PM
No way around the DROS if it is shipped into the state by anyone other than yourself. Either you will need to bring it in yourself or at least package and ship it yourself to your address here in CA. If a dealer recieves it, it needs to be DROSed.

This may give you some ideas for future situations.......

On some of my hunting trips out of state, I will prepare my guns for return shipment by preaddressing the fedex shipping label and putting in my account or CC# on the shipping documents and basically getting everything ready to go. But since sometimes I do not head directly home (side tracked to maybe do another hunt somewhere else) so the gun will sit at the pickup location (family, friends, guide service, whatever...) until I'm ready to have it shipped. Then, when I do finally get home, I will call the shipper (FedEx, DHL, ect..) and schedule them to pickup the firearm at the location it is stored at. So it maybe days, weeks or months later that I actually get the gun back. But the key point is that I prepared the shipment and I arrainge all aspects of the shipment so it is very clear who is having this gun shipped, ME. This also works in reverse for shipping guns outbound to meet up with me on trips.

M. Sage
07-31-2006, 7:05 PM
This may give you some ideas for future situations.......:rolleyes:


Loud and clear. Thanks. :D

Thanks to the rest of you, too. It's kind of what I'd thought, but wanted a second opinion from what I'd been told at the gun store.

SemiAutoSam
07-31-2006, 7:07 PM
No way around the DROS if it is shipped into the state by anyone other than yourself. Either you will need to bring it in yourself or at least package and ship it yourself to your address here in CA. If a dealer recieves it, it needs to be DROSed.

This may give you some ideas for future situations.......:rolleyes:

On some of my hunting trips out of state, I will prepare my guns for return shipment by preaddressing the fedex shipping label and putting in my acount or CC# on the shipping documents and basically getting everything ready to go. But since sometimes I donot head directly home (side tracked to maybe do another hunt somewhere else) the gun will sit at the pickup location (family, friends, guide service, whatever...) until I'm ready to have it shipped. Then when I do finally get home, I will call the shipper (FedEx, DHL, ect..) and schedule them to pickup the firearm at the location it is stored at. So it maybe days, weeks or months later that I actually get the gun back. But the key point is that I prepared the shipment and I arrainge all aspects of the shipment so it is very clear who is having this gun shipped, ME. This also works in reverse for shipping guns outbound to meet up with me on trips.



+1 to that makes total sence. Also this way no one can say you didn't ship the firearm.

M. Sage
07-31-2006, 7:12 PM
Oh, wait. Just so I'm not confused...

Hunter: You're saying you can ship a gun TO YOURSELF, yes? No FFL needed for that?

Thanks again.

-hanko
07-31-2006, 7:14 PM
No, you can't ship a gun to yourself. Either the shipper or the recipient or both must be FFLs and if the recipient is not an FFL, he then must be the legal owner of the firearm. Best thing to do is go get it and bring it back with you physically, that method is perefectly legal. You'd avoid the FFL, the DROS and the 10-day wait entirely.
Your post is entirely wrong...check the faq section on the batfe website.

In fact you do not need to be an ffl to ship a gun...although some ffl's will not accept a shipment from a non-licensee, that's their perogative.

I will give you the exception that in the PRK an assault weapon needs to be shipped by an ffl who has a PRK assault weapon permit.

-hanko

M. Sage
07-31-2006, 7:18 PM
Your post is entirely wrong...check the faq section on the batfe website.

In fact you do not need to be an ffl to ship a gun...although some ffl's will not accept a shipment from a non-licensee, that's their perogative.

I will give you the exception that in the PRK an assault weapon needs to be shipped by an ffl who has a PRK assault weapon permit.

-hanko

BATFE isn't my concern... PRK DOJ is.

Hunter
07-31-2006, 7:24 PM
+1 to that makes total sence. Also this way no one can say you didn't ship the firearm.


Yep. it works great. Last year I found myself working out of state a lot (midwest area) and living in holiday inn and such is no place to keep firearms. Plus the darn job would have me there 5 days a week. Anyway it was near impossible for me to return to CA and then head out to hunt. On top of that, the job would provide a RT ticket each week anywhere in the US. So I just made use of the RT to go hunting in say Nebraska or Kansas or Arizona, or Alaska . Plus it saved me from paying for a RT from CA to those places. But in order for this to work, I had to do a lot of shipping of my firearms vs just flying with them. So I would stage everything ahead of time and just use the internet to schedule pickups and deliveries.

Hunter
07-31-2006, 7:26 PM
Oh, wait. Just so I'm not confused...

Hunter: You're saying you can ship a gun TO YOURSELF, yes? No FFL needed for that?

Thanks again.

Yes, you must ship it to YOUR NAME in c/o the address it is going to. It must have your name on the address label. Anyone at the receiving end can receive the package and store it for you, but you should be the one to actually open it on your arrival.

So your name will be on the shipper and receiver sections of the shipping label.

M. Sage
07-31-2006, 8:02 PM
Yep. it works great. Last year I found myself working out of state a lot (midwest area) and living in holiday inn and such is no place to keep firearms. Plus the darn job would have me there 5 days a week. Anyway it was near impossible for me to return to CA and then head out to hunt. On top of that, the job would provide a RT ticket each week anywhere in the US. So I just made use of the RT to go hunting in say Nebraska or Kansas or Arizona, or Alaska . Plus it saved me from paying for a RT from CA to those places. But in order for this to work, I had to do a lot of shipping of my firearms vs just flying with them. So I would stage everything ahead of time and just use the internet to schedule pickups and deliveries.

Perfect. I was worried about if I drove, staying over in hotels with the gun, and I don't really want to fly with a gun what with the baggage handlers and lost baggage that happens.

Thanks again!

Thread over. :D

bwiese
07-31-2006, 11:59 PM
Perfect. I was worried about if I drove, staying over in hotels with the gun, and I don't really want to fly with a gun what with the baggage handlers and lost baggage that happens.

I fly with guns all the time (OR, WA, ID). ARs, FALs, handguns - along with a nice batch of ammo.

If you're flying to gun-friendly states (i..e, not NY, MA) it's no big thing. Frankly, your luggage is safer _with_ guns than without: declaration, tracking, etc. help. I think you're far far less likely to lose, or have misdirected, bags associated with declared firearms luggage. I always declare firearms AND ammo and put a 'declared Firearms/Ammo' orange tag in any bag having firearms or ammo.

If there's problems with connections, you can ask a gate agent to track down your luggage and ensure it makes your flight - once you mention you're travelling with legal, declared firearms and ammo they are most helpful to not have it lost. [I've even been upgraded to 1st class w/regards to this and a tight connection.] When this happened, the agent radioed down to the baggage service and got physical description of my (and my mom's) baggage and verified descriptions with us; the agent then validated that the luggage suite was indeed on our new plane.

If you're travelling with more than $1250 of guns/luggage, you should buy some 'excess value' coverage. It doesn't protect against certain damage (i.e., cracked optics, but then I just have ACOGs) - but does protect against loss, etc. and it's only $10-$15. You can get it at the counter at check-in.

The biggest caveat to travelling with guns is to get your arse down to luggage carousel ASAP when you get off plane. Get off as soon as you can, don't socialize with whoever's meeting you, don't stop to pee or get coffee (or both), etc. You wanna be ahead of the unloading so your gun is not circling the luggage carousel waiting for Columbian luggage thieves to snatch it. (And requesting "hold at luggage agent office for owner pickup with ID" does not always happen even if requested.)

EOD Guy
08-01-2006, 5:08 AM
BATFE isn't my concern... PRK DOJ is.


If it is a GI M1 carbine, it is a C&R rifle that is over 50 years old. California does not require dealer transfer of C&R rifles and shotguns that are over 50 years old. Your only concern should be the Feds.

Also, a bayonet lug is not an "evil feature" in California.

JPglee1
08-01-2006, 6:33 AM
If it is a GI M1 carbine, it is a C&R rifle that is over 50 years old. California does not require dealer transfer of C&R rifles and shotguns that are over 50 years old. Your only concern should be the Feds.

Also, a bayonet lug is not an "evil feature" in California.

Not always...Weren't some made after 1956...I.E. Inland and others???


Just make sure its an actual GI M1 Carbine, pre 1956 and you're good to go.


JP


P.S. I believe it's legal to "infrequently" loan a long gun to a friend/family member in California, to go hunting with...I.E. you mail it to them, they hunt, and mail it back. Double check tho, Im prolly wrong.

Hunter
08-01-2006, 11:37 AM
..... Frankly, your luggage is safer _with_ guns than without: declaration, tracking, etc. help. I think you're far far less likely to lose, or have misdirected, bags associated with declared firearms luggage.....

I use to think this as well, until last year.

I have traveled with guns 5-10x a year for at least the last 18 years without a glitch. Then last year I got hit three different occasions with lost luggage screw ups with my guns. After the first two, I got a little "gun shy" so to speak. So for the next trip I made sure I was on a direct flight so that my guns would not get lost. That flight had me and my son heading into Kansas City on Southwest for a spring turkey hunt. Now the flight was direct but it had stopped at Chicago Midway to load/offload passangers, but the thru passangers remained on the plane (myself included). We were maybe on the ground for 30 minutes or so. Anyway off we went with arrival in Kansas City around 4pm. We headed down to baggage claim and no guns!

After waiting until it was confirmed that all of the bags were indeed off the plane, I contacted SWA customer service. They said it must have got taken off the plane in Chicago but it would be on the next flight in from Chicago in 2 hrs. Well it was not on the next, or the one after that. The last flight in from Chicago was around 11:30 and still no gun. Now through all of this time I was pressing the agent to track my gun case without having too much luck. Finally they admitted, after the last plane arrive and no gun, that once the bags are past security, there is NO CHECK TO CONFIRM THEIR LOCATION!

This was hard to believe, especially after 9-11. But the bottomline is that the bags are scanned into the system but they donot get scanned after that. I then asked how in the world do they find lost baggage and the reply was at the end of the day, after all planes have landed, they will scan any bags that are left sitting around! With that said, I would not know until 5 am if my gun case was still in SWA control or not. So I filled out the lost luggage forms and got ready to leave the airport, all the time trying to think where I could borrow two shotguns for the hunt that was planned for sun up, 120 miles away. Normally, I would not sweat this, but this particular trip was with my 10 yr old son, on his first spring turkey hunt. Plus we only had that friday and the weekend to hunt and get him home to school for monday. So I really wanted this to work out.

Anyway I left the airport at 12:15am friday morning as the only remaining flight left was inbound from phoenix. So without our guns, we headed down the road. Then I receive a call at 1:15 am (with me 45 miles down the road) telling me my gun case was sitting in KC! WTF is all I could say, as I was completly confused since we were there for the last Chicago plane. Now I was starting to think that the case was in KC all along! So back we went.

Well, it turned out that my gun case was indeed taken off the plane in Chicago and for some unknown reason sent to Baltimore. Once it got to Baltimore, the ground person saw it was incorrect so the gun was routed to Phoenix and then back to Kansas City. The last flight into KC that night arrived from Phoenix at 12:45am.

So while one does declare a firearm and it is listed in the manifest for the plane, it is not always tracked thru a airline's baggage handling system or given any more care than Aunt Mary's overnight bag. From what I can tell, the only system that really tracks bags is if you fly thru Denver on United and your bags get run thru their automated sorting system. Other than that, we all are relying on the ground crew to do their jobs by reading the baggage tags correctly!

M. Sage
08-01-2006, 5:09 PM
If it is a GI M1 carbine, it is a C&R rifle that is over 50 years old. California does not require dealer transfer of C&R rifles and shotguns that are over 50 years old. Your only concern should be the Feds.

Also, a bayonet lug is not an "evil feature" in California.

Odd, for some reason I thought it was.

Unfortunately, I have no idea the age of the rifle... I never checked.

Wow! $1250 of guns/luggage? I know my stuff doesn't add up to even CLOSE to that.

Telpierion
08-02-2006, 3:23 PM
Odd, for some reason I thought it was.

Unfortunately, I have no idea the age of the rifle... I never checked.

That should be easy enough to track down with the serial number.

EOD Guy
08-02-2006, 5:14 PM
Odd, for some reason I thought it was.

Unfortunately, I have no idea the age of the rifle... I never checked.

Wow! $1250 of guns/luggage? I know my stuff doesn't add up to even CLOSE to that.

All USGI M1 carbines are over 60 years old. The last one was manufactured in 1944 or 1945.