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GOEX FFF
12-31-2010, 6:04 AM
So, my Wife and I were at dinner chatting about house buying and the topic of buying a piece of real estate and building from the ground up came into discussion, which got me thinking hypothetically. I once had a friend of a friend who's parents were pretty wealthy that had a 2-4 lane bowling alley built underground under their home.

What would be the legalities if one was to construct an underground, ventilated, 2 lane target shooting range under their home/property?
I suppose it would all depend on one's location, but could this be considered illegal discharging within city limits?
It seems it would be the utmost safest place to shoot being underground, as there would be no noise or any chance of strays above.

SanPedroShooter
12-31-2010, 6:07 AM
I dont know the law, (almost sure to be illegal) but i work for several big time general contractors here in the south bay/ palos verdes, and there are several "underground" underground single lane pistol ranges that i know of. Dont let the nieghbors find out...
They list it as a storage room or something for the inspector, get cert, and out come the power tools. This happens all the time, everything from home gyms to stair and deck railings. There are som many rules. building codes you cant get exactly what you want so you get close, and change it later.
And these are extremly wealthy people we work for, lawyers, doctors, some celebritys etc... Law abiding goes out the window when they start a remodel, ha ha.

VictorFranko
12-31-2010, 6:17 AM
Maybe you and gravedigger can build one together.

Be sure to check out post #25 :p

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=327360

choprzrul
12-31-2010, 6:53 AM
Ventilation. You are going to need to be bringing in fresh air and getting rid of the smokey/lead filled air. There will be an associated odor with that evac air, so mind wind direction and plan accordingly.

Depending upon your location, temperature of the air you are bringing in can be a factor. If it is too hot or too cold outside to shoot, you are going to bringing the same air, that chased you inside in the first place, into your shooting range. Are you going to cool or heat the air before pumping it into the range area?

My idea was to build the house into a hillside. Have a safe door hidden behind a swinging shelf. Have the safe door lead to a gun room that has a back door. Bore a mine tunnel to the other side of the hill and have it make 2 90 degree turns before it exits. Heavily conceal the exit. You could then sit in your gun room and target practice down the tunnel to your hearts content. This is the point in my dream where the air handling reality kicked in. Somewhere along the line, it would need fans to move air out of the room/tunnel.

.

RustyMacHine
12-31-2010, 6:54 AM
Maybe you and gravedigger can build one together.

Be sure to check out post #25 :p

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=327360

That's some high-tech $#!T.:batman:

GOEX FFF
12-31-2010, 2:38 PM
Maybe you and gravedigger can build one together.

Be sure to check out post #25 :p

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=327360

Ahh, I did a search and didn't come up with that thread.
looks like this has been discussed before in depth, thanks for the additional input guys! :)

Dreaded Claymore
12-31-2010, 2:39 PM
I was just reading post #25 on Gravedigger's old thread. He said something about acoustically tuning the place so that noise would be directed away from the shooter. I initially thought that would be impossible, but then I remembered the time I went to Chichén Itzá. On the ball game court, people standing on one end can hear the people on the other end, and vice versa, even though it's over 100 meters away. If the ancient Aztecs could do that, maybe it's possible to design a reduced-blast shooting range.

VictorFranko
12-31-2010, 3:04 PM
I was just reading post #25 on Gravedigger's old thread. He said something about acoustically tuning the place so that noise would be directed away from the shooter. I initially thought that would be impossible, but then I remembered the time I went to Chichén Itzá. On the ball game court, people standing on one end can hear the people on the other end, and vice versa, even though it's over 100 meters away. If the ancient Aztecs could do that, maybe it's possible to design a reduced-blast shooting range.

DC, wasn't Chichén Itzá built by the Mayans?
I was pretty loaded when I went to Tulum and Chichén Itzá, but I wasn't that loaded was I? :p

Munk
12-31-2010, 5:24 PM
This has been one of my dreams as well, a hidden shooting range.

I think there are ways to be licensed for a shooting range, but they're usually for business purposes. Some other inspections and nonsense need to be worked out. Try contacting your friendly neighborhood indoor range, and see what they had to do to certify, or who they had to contact. Then follow through with those contacts.

DC, wasn't Chichén Itzá built by the Mayans?
I was pretty loaded when I went to Tulum and Chichén Itzá, but I wasn't that loaded was I? :p

Bah, technicalities. lol

I think the point he's making is... thousands of years ago, people with ROCKS for tools understood accoustic theory.

The same applies to a few ancient amphiteaters as well.


Unfortunately, unless you've got the walls of the place starting at the tip of your muzzle, you won't get away from needing to wear some hearing protection. You CAN however keep it from reverberating or echoing back, and that helps immensly. I would design the tube with the same structural features as an oversized suppressor. You can find a number of designs for them online, just map it out as a structure instead of a can. Then add lots of egg-carton foam to each surface.

bob1911
12-31-2010, 6:23 PM
Unfortunately, unless you've got the walls of the place starting at the tip of your muzzle, you won't get away from needing to wear some hearing protection. You CAN however keep it from reverberating or echoing back, and that helps immensely. I would design the tube with the same structural features as an over-sized suppressor. You can find a number of designs for them online, just map it out as a structure instead of a can. Then add lots of egg-carton foam to each surface.

I would add a distinctive id to the wall after I filed and paid $200 to BATFE to insure total legality. :rolleyes: :innocent:

Dreaded Claymore
01-01-2011, 10:47 AM
DC, wasn't Chichén Itzá built by the Mayans?
I was pretty loaded when I went to Tulum and Chichén Itzá, but I wasn't that loaded was I? :p

Shoot, you're right. It was the Maya, not the Aztecs. Anyway, if the ancient Mesoamericans could do that, maybe we could make a reduced-blast shooting range.

chiselchst
01-01-2011, 7:59 PM
I know Canyon Sports (in Martinez, CA) tried to get permitting for an underground range maybe 1.5 yrs ago, and was denied. And that was in an industrial zoned area, if I'm not mistaken...

Librarian
01-01-2011, 8:04 PM
I know Canyon Sports (in Martinez, CA) tried to get permitting for an underground range maybe 1.5 yrs ago, and was denied. And that was in an industrial zoned area, if I'm not mistaken...

That was local NIMBY-ism, 'for the children'. Bah!

MPMillen
01-01-2011, 8:14 PM
Indoor ranges, underground or above ground, usually require a conditional use permit from your local city or county.

One of the top companies in the field is Savage Arms. They are responsive to inquiries and have most of the detail work done for you already regarding safety, etc.

In an urban CA city expect to spend 75K-100K in 2010 dollars for 2 - 21 yard pistol only lanes and a completely legal range. Residential ranges are not that uncommon in the SF Bay Area.

GuyW
01-01-2011, 9:04 PM
Lots of drug tunnels dug along the border every year....apparently no one knows, except by the unusual truck traffic schedules....
.

ElvenSoul
01-01-2011, 9:08 PM
The Science Fiction Writer William Gibson called such houses, " Stealth Houses."

Munk
01-01-2011, 9:19 PM
I would add a distinctive id to the wall after I filed and paid $200 to BATFE to insure total legality. :rolleyes: :innocent:

Lol. If this were the case, every pillow would require a 200$ tax stamp.

N6ATF
01-01-2011, 11:07 PM
Hahaha

Wrangler John
01-02-2011, 5:50 AM
Just line up (laser level) some 36" culvert above ground at bench height (either CMP or Polyethylene) and bury it in compacted fill. Build a target house and berm at one end and a shoot house at the other (used shipping containers will do nicely. My buddy was going to buy enough containers to line up for the tunnel by cutting one end out and removing the doors on the other end, no fill needed.). Keep it to 100 yards or less, or buy larger diameter culvert. Just remember that unburned powder is building up ahead of the firing point - keep it cleaned up. Nosler found out the hard way what happens when it ignites.

zhyla
01-02-2011, 7:29 AM
I wouldn't want the associated heavy metal buildup anywhere near my home.

Purple K
01-02-2011, 8:36 AM
Years ago when Davenport Arms was located on Pacific Avenue in Stockton they had a single lane underground. It was very inexpensively installed. 25-yards of six foot deep trench lined with 24" concrete pipe. We were able to test fire repaired guns on premisis.

mycrstuff
01-02-2011, 1:22 PM
A couple years ago when real estate was hot the local news reviewed a house for sale in Newport Beach. It had an underground movie theater and a gun range. The range looked the typical indoor pistol range except it was only one or two lanes wide. The house was around $10,000,000 back then. You could probably get for $6,000,000 now.

freonr22
01-02-2011, 1:30 PM
for ventilation, think 20 air changes per hour, based on the space volume, hepa filtration on the exhaust, and possibly haz mat to dispose of filter when used up. also needs to be a negative pressure, in relationship to entrance/house

command_liner
01-02-2011, 2:07 PM
So I am joining the Corvallis Militia. (Buying a house in Oregon. Closes the 2/28/2011.)
This idea will be implemented when we re-work the garage. It might take a few years
before I get the $ together, but my new house will have a range.

Mstrty
01-02-2011, 2:38 PM
in 1998-1999 I helped build what was permitted as a Y2k bunker but was 100% bowling alley/ and 25yard mechanical target firing range with vault(total man cave). It was 80'x120'x 12' cube constructed of red iron and block walls. it was located 6' below grade with its only access was a 75' tunnel that lead to the basement of the large house. All of the services including air handling , water, sewer, power, was handled through the access tunnel. It was constructed in the sierra foothills 45 miles east of Auburn Ca. There are no egresses or any evidence that there is a bunker. The original manzeneta bushes were replanted above the bunkers 12" concrete pan deck roof and sod. It was an amazing build with a no expense spared budget. Dot com billionaire building weekend home in the foothills.
The county only knows about the bunker which was built originally with escape hatch at grade level. That escape hatch is no longer there and the tunnel and utilities were constructed post final inspection. I was last there in 1999. The bullet trap was installed and vault in corner was completed. The tunnel was completed and yet to be backfilled. Im sure it is a sight to behold if only I had access to it today.

negolien
01-02-2011, 2:40 PM
There was supposedly one here in Sacramento at wildsports but it was years and years ago if at all so /shrug ya know how them stories are.

Davidwhitewolf
01-02-2011, 8:30 PM
So I am joining the Corvallis Militia. (Buying a house in Oregon. Closes the 2/28/2011.)
This idea will be implemented when we re-work the garage. It might take a few years
before I get the $ together, but my new house will have a range.

Congratulations! I grew up in that town. You should like it very much.

One of my great regrets is that I didn't become interested in firearms until after I moved to the Bay Area. Oregon law's much better than ours. Had I known there were regular machine-gun matches just down the road in neighboring Albany, I might never have moved.... :(

Dreaded Claymore
01-02-2011, 10:44 PM
I wouldn't want the associated heavy metal buildup anywhere near my home.

Surely there are ways to solve this problem. Aside from air handling with HEPA filtration, aren't there ways to stop lead from building up? Let's say your backstop is made of dirt, every year you could shave off the first four feet of dirt, pay for its disposal by an outfit that cleans up lead, and replace the dirt with fresh stuff. Might not be too expensive/too much work as long as your range isn't very wide and you don't hit the walls/floor/ceiling too much.

Edit: How do bullet traps in indoor ranges work, anyway?

MontClaire
01-02-2011, 10:47 PM
one thing you can bet on is noise. It's going to be noisy. very. outside people in vicinity of your range right above it will hear the shots. i visited one undeground range in millwaukee once. after excercise i was on a parking lot smoking and I heard them shots pretty LOUD!

zhyla
01-03-2011, 7:19 AM
Yes, there is filtration and other ways to get way of the lead. But the lead levels in the best range are nothing you want to habitate in.

luckystrike
01-03-2011, 2:23 PM
I remember seeing a vid of a guy building something like that using a used connex box/container.

nicki
01-03-2011, 3:07 PM
You can go through the process of getting a building permit.

Of course there probably are people who build stuff underground and don't report it.

They say the underground rooms are for storage or something else. The fact that the walls and ceilings muffle noise and stop bullets is just coincidental.

It is not like you are growing a "Medical Marijuana" farm in your house and making the neighborhood smell like a "Skunk Farm".

Of course the smart growers use filter systems to clean their air.

I am sure some people just turn on their steroes, play the 1812 overture and then just shoot away.

As long as you cover up noise and ensure no stray rounds, no one would know you are blasting away.

Nicki

meaty-btz
01-03-2011, 3:23 PM
To clean up the lead, the use of an angled water trap is an option. Drain water collect bullets, melt down, recast,reuse.

crs1
01-03-2011, 3:59 PM
Local Zoning ord.'s will dictate....and they change often.

I looked at a piece of commercial ppty in Long Beach, and one of the "approved" listed uses was shooting range....that changed a few years later when I got serious about developing the property (never bought it).

I also had a client who used to manufacture and shoot outside their shop into a berm....the area got developed with the housing boom, and the zoning rules changed. They had to move.

Brucets11
01-03-2011, 7:52 PM
Moved out here a few years ago and when back in Ohio, I shot at Vandalia Range and Armory. Several years ago they installed a 100yd underground range that that will accommodate up to 50BMG.
http://www.vra-ohio.com/ranges