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View Full Version : Can the DMV be sued for violating 2nd amendment rights?


SofaGeorge
12-30-2010, 1:41 PM
I went to buy a roll of stamps yesterday. I couldn't do it because the DMV "punched" (invalidated) my driver's license when I applied for a new one in September.

I haven't been able to buy a firearm now for almost four months - and I'm told issuance of future IDs is "on hold" indefinitely.

I'm financially able and willing to institute a class action lawsuit against the DMV if the current situation with California driver's licenses meets the standards required.

No driver's license or state IDs are being issued and they are required for everything from getting your electricity turned on to cashing a check. Last on the list is the ability to simply buy a new gun.

Can anyone here who works in Constitutional law tell me if this situation meets the criteria to be actionable?

Fortunately, my wife has agreed enough is enough. We are moving out of California. The litany of legal restrictions and tax burdens imposed by the state makes it the sh-t hole of the US. (Sorry, but there is no other way to describe the state.)

Can anyone advise?

gatdammit
12-30-2010, 2:14 PM
I think there are already similar threads going on... and unless I am wrong, some people have been moving on this already. PM "wildhawker" He can help, I believe. I think his name is Brandon.

hoffmang
12-30-2010, 3:06 PM
DMV is not the proper defendant.

-Gene

Robidouxs
12-30-2010, 3:13 PM
Remember, a state entity cannot be sued unless it consents to being sued.

hoffmang
12-30-2010, 3:15 PM
Remember, a state entity cannot be sued unless it consents to being sued.

Not true for violations of the 14th Amendment.

-Gene

Gray Peterson
12-30-2010, 3:44 PM
Remember, a state entity cannot be sued unless it consents to being sued.

From Guillory v. Gates

[5] The court granted Gates' and Davis' motions for a directed verdict based upon: (1) the immunity provisions of sections 820.2 and 821.2 of the California Government Code; and (2) a lack of credible evidence establishing the alleged constitutional violations. In considering a motion for a directed verdict, we view the evidence as a whole and we draw all possible
inferences in favor of the non-moving party. Shakey's, Inc. v. Covalt, 704 F.2d 426, 430 (9th Cir.1983).
[6] Sections 820.2 and 821.2 of the California Government Code grant immunity to public employees for discretionary acts and for denials of licenses or permits. Gates and Davis argue these provisions are applicable because of the need for judicial abstention in areas where basic policy decisions have been committed to coordinate branches of government. We disagree. State statutory immunity provisions do not apply to federal civil rights actions. Morrison v. Jones, 607 F.2d 1269, 1273 (9th Cir.1979), cert. denied, 445 U.S. 962, 100 S.Ct. 1648, 64 L.Ed.2d 237 (1980). To construe a federal statute to allow a state immunity defense "to have controlling effect would transmute a basic guarantee into an illusory promise", which the supremacy clause does not allow. Martinez v. California, 444 U.S. 277, 284 n. 8, 100 S.Ct. 553, 558 n. 8, 62 L.Ed.2d 481 (1980).

In addition, we note that at oral argument before this court, the county took the position that it was not bound by the fourteenth amendment equal protection clause, apparently on the theory that the second amendment somehow supersedes it whenever the state's regulation of firearms is at issue. This wholly unsubstantiated position in itself seems to be evidence of the county's official policy of indifference to fourteenth amendment protections. Accordingly, we conclude the district court abused its discretion by limiting the scope and extent of the cross-examination of Gates. United States v. Johnson, 285 F.2d 35, 40 (9th Cir.1960).

IGOTDIRT4U
12-30-2010, 3:46 PM
I'm confused. Why couldn't you buy a roll of stamps?

wildhawker
12-30-2010, 4:35 PM
OP, PM me your name and contact info please.

-Brandon

sfguyhere
12-30-2010, 6:06 PM
LMAO !!!! I'm wondering the same thing wildhawker... 20 PM's into the thread, I forgot the original posting ?!

Then it hits me . . . WTF?! u couldn't buy a roll of stamps?

WTSGDYBBR
12-30-2010, 6:09 PM
Another Sue thread. Go Get Them Tiger !!! My tags were 1 Thousand dollars this year.

Paul S
12-30-2010, 6:25 PM
LMAO !!!! I'm wondering the same thing wildhawker... 20 PM's into the thread, I forgot the original posting ?!

Then it hits me . . . WTF?! u couldn't buy a roll of stamps?

I inferred from the OP's post that he was unable to buy the stamps because his ID is no longer valid. I am left to conclude he was trying to use a credit card or personal check and of course the purveyor of the stamps (Post Office, contract station, COSTCO or other business) needed valid ID.

The OP has another thread on the state's failure to produce his new Driver's License. He started out be saying the state REFUSES to do so. Actually the state can't because of production problems. In addition I believe a healthy dose of dysfunction at DMV also exacerbates the problem.

If you were tongue in cheek and I missed it...my apologies for wasting bandwidth. :D

steelrain82
12-30-2010, 6:39 PM
I got my new dl within the last week ordered it November 8

Fjold
12-30-2010, 6:42 PM
I got my new dl within the last week ordered it November 8


You're obviously a DMV plant.

steelrain82
12-30-2010, 7:20 PM
The new id's kind of remind me of the new colorful bills. What I don't understand is why my address remained the same despite me doing an address change.

Oceanbob
12-30-2010, 8:00 PM
Get both a DL and an ID. Stagger them several months. At least you can use one if the other is late getting mailed. DMV has serious problems; cutting days, cutting hours..etc.

I know a Cal Gunner who can't DROS his weapon because DMV is so far behind issuing renewals. It's been 6 weeks already.

Funtimes
12-30-2010, 8:02 PM
I always wonder, why the hell do you need a non-expired "LICENSE" to complete transactions?

It's not like the person changed.... just his license expired lol it's still proof he/she is who they say they are.

vwynn
12-30-2010, 8:05 PM
i finally got my new license yesterday the 29th.. renewed it 11/20/10... Lost out in gun purchase :/... and couldnt drink even tho i turned 21 not to long ago -_-...

G-forceJunkie
12-30-2010, 8:07 PM
Once its expired, its no longer legal proof. Its just a usless piece of plastic with colors printed on it.I always wonder, why the hell do you need a non-expired "LICENSE" to complete transactions?

It's not like the person changed.... just his license expired lol it's still proof he/she is who they say they are.

Blackhawk556
12-30-2010, 8:57 PM
the real question is, will your lawsuit be successful?
:no:

yellowfin
12-30-2010, 9:42 PM
Were these $200 tax stamps? I wish we could get them at the post office. We should, since we get $25 federal duck stamps there.

Ryan C
12-30-2010, 10:52 PM
i want to sue them also i have been waiting for 6 months since beginning of july i call every week and i hear the same story iam tired of their nonsence who would i go after?

Ross
12-31-2010, 7:00 AM
I got my new dl within the last week ordered it November 8

You're obviously a DMV plant.

He's a DMV troll. :D

OleCuss
12-31-2010, 7:18 AM
i want to sue them also i have been waiting for 6 months since beginning of july i call every week and i hear the same story iam tired of their nonsence who would i go after?

You need to PM wildhawker. This is not an idle suggestion. Wildhawker has plans to make good use of the situation to give the state (or someone) horrible fits over the situation.

I do not know what wildhawker has planned - but I'm certain that someone(s) is going to absolutely hate it and I'm going to love it!

Net effect? If your RKBA (or to use alcohol, for that matter) is being restricted by the problems at the DMV:

PM wildhawker

This is not a joke. Do it! For those of you who still don't get it - wildhawker is one of the greatest champions of the RKBA in California and he gets results. Do us all a favor and do as he asks.

joe_sun
12-31-2010, 7:27 AM
That's strange it's taking some people so long. I put in an internet renewal (using my old picture) on 11/20/2010 and received my new license 12/23/2010 and my old one didn't expire until the end of January.

choprzrul
12-31-2010, 7:28 AM
You need to PM wildhawker. This is not an idle suggestion. Wildhawker has plans to make good use of the situation to give the state (or someone) horrible fits over the situation.

I do not know what wildhawker has planned - but I'm certain that someone(s) is going to absolutely hate it and I'm going to love it!

Net effect? If your RKBA (or to use alcohol, for that matter) is being restricted by the problems at the DMV:

PM wildhawker

This is not a joke. Do it! For those of you who still don't get it - wildhawker is one of the greatest champions of the RKBA in California and he gets results. Do us all a favor and do as he asks.

^^THIS^^

He might be an OleCuss, but he is offering sound advice. Wildhawker is one of several very intelligent & proactive champions of all things 2A. PM him ASAP.

.

B Strong
12-31-2010, 7:49 AM
I went to buy a roll of stamps yesterday. I couldn't do it because the DMV "punched" (invalidated) my driver's license when I applied for a new one in September.

I haven't been able to buy a firearm now for almost four months - and I'm told issuance of future IDs is "on hold" indefinitely.

I'm financially able and willing to institute a class action lawsuit against the DMV if the current situation with California driver's licenses meets the standards required.

No driver's license or state IDs are being issued and they are required for everything from getting your electricity turned on to cashing a check. Last on the list is the ability to simply buy a new gun.

Can anyone here who works in Constitutional law tell me if this situation meets the criteria to be actionable?

Fortunately, my wife has agreed enough is enough. We are moving out of California. The litany of legal restrictions and tax burdens imposed by the state makes it the sh-t hole of the US. (Sorry, but there is no other way to describe the state.)

Can anyone advise?


ID for stamp purchase?

I moved earlier this year, changed addy w/ the DMV, they punched hole, I went about my business and nobody had an issue with the punched license, even with the TSA.

I could see where there might be a problem with a firearms purchase, but stamps?

vintagearms
12-31-2010, 7:57 AM
I renewed my DL before it expired in Dec. Went in middle of November and they gave me a temp paper one that expired on Jan 11th. They let me keep my old DL and didnt punch the date. Just got my new DL in the mail on Wed.
Production is slow, but at least its moving.

SofaGeorge
12-31-2010, 4:53 PM
LMAO !!!! I'm wondering the same thing wildhawker... 20 PM's into the thread, I forgot the original posting ?!

Then it hits me . . . WTF?! u couldn't buy a roll of stamps?

Buying the roll of stamps required me to write a check because it was a company purchase and all POs have to be paid by check or company credit card. The post office wouldn't accept my check because I didn't have a valid ID... ie, a driver's license.

I've been turned down trying to use my personal checks and credit cards as well... but for Pete's sake... a company check they typically don't even usually ask for ID in stores... only the post office does.

GuyW
12-31-2010, 5:50 PM
Once its expired, its no longer legal proof. Its just a usless piece of plastic with colors printed on it.

Only because the law is an ***.
.

CTallerico
12-31-2010, 6:18 PM
I'm in the same boat....I "renewed" my CDL at the beginning of December and the DMV clerk told me it would be at least 4 MONTHS before I received the new card...I was a little ticked off but kinda forgot about it.

Fast forward a few weeks now....I buy a new shotgun and my pick up date is after my old DL expires. Hmmmmmm....Hope I don't have an issue picking it up.

bigcalidave
01-01-2011, 2:35 AM
Visa and MasterCard both say that a merchant can't require I'd with a purchase.

Ignoring that, I lost my license and DMV says 60 days at least for my new one to arrive. Absolute bs.

Ryan C
01-06-2011, 9:54 PM
iam still waiting since beginning of july over 6 months if anyone can help with this let me know.

stitchnicklas
01-06-2011, 10:30 PM
if i move and turn in a change of address form will my old dl be worthless for firearm purchases???

sarge1572
01-06-2011, 10:37 PM
I've never understood why is your ID invalid because it is expired? Does your name change? When you get it renewed they use your OLD ID to make the NEW one.

hoffmang
01-06-2011, 11:16 PM
I've never understood why is your ID invalid because it is expired? Does your name change? When you get it renewed they use your OLD ID to make the NEW one.

Your expired ID is valid for surprisingly many purposes.

-Gene

rabagley
01-07-2011, 8:04 AM
I have an expired US Passport and a current US Passport. Both documents qualify as photo ID issued by a government agency. It won't let you buy a gun (which is an issue with its own currently active lawsuit), but a passport is pretty easy to get quickly and will definitely get you onto airplanes, verify ID for credit cards and checks, lots of situations where you need legal ID.

Bhobbs
01-07-2011, 8:42 AM
DMV is not the proper defendant.

-Gene

What organization would be the proper defendant in this case?

OleCuss
01-07-2011, 8:51 AM
What organization would be the proper defendant in this case?

If I might speculate?

If the requirement that the DL be used comes from the DOJ (state and/or federal), then the DOJ might be the right defendant. If it is written into the penal code then I'd think that the state and/or federal government in general would be the proper defendant.

But in this case, the DMV is not the entity saying that you cannot purchase a firearm and thus is not the entity violating your RKBA.

The DOJ and/or the statute is saying that you cannot buy the firearm without a current DL - and thus violating your RKBA as delineated in the 2A/14A/Heller/McDonald.

wildhawker
01-07-2011, 10:19 AM
Correct. DOJ is the enforcer of the law.

incredablehefey
01-07-2011, 10:24 AM
The new id's kind of remind me of the new colorful bills. What I don't understand is why my address remained the same despite me doing an address change.
because they want $25 more dollars out of you

sw99
01-12-2011, 9:16 AM
i want to sue them also i have been waiting for 6 months since beginning of july i call every week and i hear the same story iam tired of their nonsence who would i go after?

I spoke to a DMV lady today, who said that at the end of October they stopped sending out driving licenses altogether. And they only restarted sending them at the end of December. And because of the back-log, it will be the end of Jan before I get my license.

Every time I speak to DMV, I get a different story! But it's frustrating that they won't tell us - or the press - the truth.

RobG
01-12-2011, 10:46 AM
Just FYI, I paid for mine on 12/12 and recieved it two days ago.

sw99
01-12-2011, 12:04 PM
yeah, I sorta assumed she was lying to me :-)

Good thing about DMV though is that they never repeat an excuse ;-)

70extreme
01-12-2011, 1:54 PM
So, will a valid passport work for ID to buy a gun? Do you need the ID when you pick up or when you start the DROS?