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thrasherfox
12-30-2010, 9:26 AM
With all this crap that California keeps shoving down our throat trying to impact our right to keep and bear arms.

The assault rifle issues

AB962

How much of a pain it is to get a CCW



What state out there is the most "free state"


I would like to purchase a 50bmg

I would like the option to purchase and own a 20mm

For example, this poor thing has been sitting for sale for months and months

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=208864700

I would like to purchase something like that, but hell will freeze over before I could get something like that in California.


I would like to either concealed carry. or loaded open carry. whatever I choose.

If I want a fully automatic rifle, then I can have one.

I would like to go to a place where people are not afraid of guns, everyone carry's and everyone respects each other


I really want to move out of California. But I have a good job and it is difficult to just up and move. but if I can create a list of good places to live that are sensible in their laws, especially their gun laws. I can start searching those areas for a transfer.


So if everyone can chime in with places they know that are pretty cool to live and add the pros and cons I would apprecieate it.


Example:
Pros - great weather, snows once in awhile but not too bad

Cons - we have tornado's 6 months out of the year that pretty much destroy everything


Thank in advance for any replies

Havoc70
12-30-2010, 9:37 AM
I would say hands down Vermont is. Their constitution basically says to disarm a person is criminal. New Hampshire is currently the state of choice for the Free State Project. Alaska and Arizona round out the list. The Pros list of VT, AK and NH:

Great gun laws.

The cons of those states: The weather in the winter, but I like snow and what not so for me not so much a Con.

The pro of AZ:

Decent job sector
Great gun laws
Very friendly state
Short flight/drive to CA if you need your Golden State fix.

Con:

It's a damn pressure cooker in the summer and it's not much better in the winter.

J.D.Allen
12-30-2010, 9:38 AM
Three words for you.

AZ, AK, VT. Look them up. As far as weather is concerned, AK and VT get very cold in the winter, and AZ gets very hot in the summer. But the weather in AZ in winter, spring, and fall is very temperate and mild. Yuma is beautiful right now, in fact. Personally I'm kind of biased toward AZ, because I live there, but it's also a lot closer to my friends and family in CA than AK and VT. Also it's really hard to imagine a more 2A friendly place than AZ.

What kind of work do you do?

gadjeep
12-30-2010, 9:41 AM
Utah. Very mild 4 season climate and has one of the best 2A report cards around.
NRA - A+
Brady - F

Steyr_223
12-30-2010, 9:54 AM
Another vote for Utah..Spent a lot of time there in the 90's..Sandy/Provo/SLC..Nice people and ok tech sector/jobs from my experience..Very family orient with lots of outdoors things to do.. It's still a Mormon majority state, if that bothers you..For me the idea that my neighbors have 3 to 6 months of supplies in most house holds is a comfort.

Plus is it a non border state like AZ and New Mexico..Everyone in I meet in Utah spoke English..Fast Food places, airport and restaurant buss boys..

For personal reasons I still favor Oregon and North Carolina if I had to move...

CHS
12-30-2010, 10:19 AM
These guys actually put together HARD DATA on freedom in the 50 states and put together an index of freedom:

http://www.statepolicyindex.com/?page_id=143

CHS
12-30-2010, 10:20 AM
An excerpt:

We find that the freest states in the country are New Hampshire, Colorado, and South Dakota, which together achieve a virtual tie for first place. All three states feature low taxes and government spending and middling levels of regulation and paternalism. New York is the least free by a considerable margin, followed by New Jersey, Rhode Island, California and Maryland. On personal freedom alone, Alaska is the clear winner, while Maryland brings up the rear. As for freedom in the different regions of the country, the Mountain and West North Central regions are the freest overall while the Middle Atlantic lags far behind on both economic and personal freedom. Regression analysis demonstrates that states enjoying more economic and personal freedom tend to attract substantially higher rates of internal net migration.

tiki
12-30-2010, 10:45 AM
These guys actually put together HARD DATA on freedom in the 50 states and put together an index of freedom:

http://www.statepolicyindex.com/?page_id=143


Nice find! Thanks.

Coded-Dude
12-30-2010, 10:51 AM
I have been leaning towards AK, but its so damn far away(even farther from my family than I already am). AZ would be the best choice if I were to consider location.

CHS
12-30-2010, 10:59 AM
If I move, Colorado will probably be my choice. AK is too damn far and cold most of the year. I grew up in AZ, and there's a lot of love about that state, but I just can't deal with the summers like I could when I was a kid.

CO winters are a cruel mistress, but the rest of the year is very pleasant. Plus, my dad lives there and I love my dad.

Also, CO tied for 1st place on the freedom index :)

J.D.Allen
12-30-2010, 11:00 AM
I have been leaning towards AK, but its so damn far away(even farther from my family than I already am). AZ would be the best choice if I were to consider location.

Right. It's kind of a no brainer for ppl in CA. It's so close. That makes finding a job, the logistics of the move, and visiting fam & friends so much easier.

Other cool things about AZ:

No motorcycle helmet law
No prohibition against using cell phone while driving
Low taxes, registration, license fees etc...

Also no knife laws. Local knife ordinances are preempted, and no prohibition against carrying any type of knife including auto openers or fixed blades openly or concealed

Good hunting and outdoor shooting laws

Driver's license costs $25, and it's good until you're 65. I walked into the MVD (that's DMV in Arizoneese) with no appt, and walked out with the hard copy of my license in my hand in about an hour. And it doesn't expire until 2042. And no waiting six weeks for the license with your picture on it.

Then I went to a gun store the same day I got my driver license, bought a gun and walked out with it in about 20 minutes openly carrying it on my hip with no license or permit required.

AZ rocks!:gunsmilie:

Ford8N
12-30-2010, 11:00 AM
http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/bcam/stategunlaws/scorecard/BradyScorecard.pdf




Green is freedom, light green is good, yellow is worse, orange sux, red is s**t!!!!!



http://i455.photobucket.com/albums/qq280/Ford8N_2008/800px-Brady_State_Ratings_2009svg.png

Dexster
12-30-2010, 11:05 AM
The Brady campaign has something wrong with it if it shows Washington, New York and Mass as orange...

gobler
12-30-2010, 2:13 PM
My wife and I are looking at Georgia, S Carolina, Virginia and Kentucky/Tenn. This new web site will help in our hunt. :D

CHS
12-30-2010, 2:18 PM
My wife and I are looking at Georgia, S Carolina, Virginia and Kentucky/Tenn. This new web site will help in our hunt. :D

What I really like about that website is that while they include gun control laws in their data points, that's not the only thing they look at. They look at taxes, economic situation, personal freedoms, how the government works, number of laws, etc..

What you end up with is a very comprehensive list of FREEDOM, not just gun freedom. I know most people here seem to only care about gun freedom, but there's more to liberty than just guns.

CHS
12-30-2010, 2:19 PM
The Brady campaign has something wrong with it if it shows Washington, New York and Mass as orange...

Washington's gun laws aren't all THAT great. Yeah, they're better than California's for example, but their NFA laws just plain stink.

dodge
12-30-2010, 2:22 PM
^^gobler might wanna be further north, closer to appalachians
kentucky, about 20-30 miles north of glasgow. i have family all over south & wouldn't move further south than memphis, tennessee

freest state in order
montana,wyoming,idaho,south dok........

washington & oregon also seem very firearm friendly
both states you can walk in & walk out the same day w/firearm of your choice

i think all the states listed, you can have firearm in your hands the day of purchase

austin,tx is very firearm friendly w/water & beautiful city. it's still growing where most cities are receding. so there are actually jobs to be had in that part of the country

repubconserv
12-30-2010, 2:29 PM
Utah. Im not sure on some of those laws but what I do know is there are a lot of Mormons, and though my beliefs are very different from mormons in some ways, we agree in others. one such way is that they love their guns.

If (God forbid!!!) any civil unrest/ war in the states should occur... Im movin to utah

Ford8N
12-30-2010, 2:34 PM
What I really like about that website is that while they include gun control laws in their data points, that's not the only thing they look at. They look at taxes, economic situation, personal freedoms, how the government works, number of laws, etc..

What you end up with is a very comprehensive list of FREEDOM, not just gun freedom. I know most people here seem to only care about gun freedom, but there's more to liberty than just guns.

Thanks! In cross referencing the map on that site and the NRA's state map and the Brady's my land is in the top quintile. I confirms my choice of where to buy.

http://i455.photobucket.com/albums/qq280/Ford8N_2008/freedommap.png

DougJ
12-30-2010, 2:43 PM
I'm looking to find a place to go when the time comes. Like so, so many people, I'm looking to out of CA.

Western ID, CO, UT, AZ (up north) are all on my short list. That website is interesting, and if you click on the link on the left side of the page it takes you to another site where you can weight different factors in various ways to customize the results.

I've been looking at buying another house, and the results of this last election made up my mind - it won't be in CA.

thrasherfox
12-30-2010, 2:48 PM
I'm looking to find a place to go when the time comes. Like so, so many people, I'm looking to out of CA.

Western ID, CO, UT, AZ (up north) are all on my short list. That website is interesting, and if you click on the link on the left side of the page it takes you to another site where you can weight different factors in various ways to customize the results.

I've been looking at buying another house, and the results of this last election made up my mind - it won't be in CA.

Yes, I had hopes I would see a turn around in politics in this state.

We need change (and not Obama style change)

I honestly felt Whitman would have been a good choice.

There is always a potential for that to have gone bad also (a powerful business woman in charge of a state). But I think right now California needs to be ran like a business if we are ever going to get out of debt.

This state needs to make having a business here attractive, not discourage people..

When Brown was voted back in office my very first thought was "these people in California are not getting it"

so yeah, getting close to moving.

gobler
12-30-2010, 3:01 PM
So all the sliders will indicate what? What would 0 mean vs 25? is 0 an indication of no control by state or your level of interest?

five.five-six
12-30-2010, 3:04 PM
what state is the most free state?


California... if you don't have a job or you are here illegaly, then everything is free

Flopper
12-30-2010, 3:13 PM
These guys actually put together HARD DATA on freedom in the 50 states and put together an index of freedom:

http://www.statepolicyindex.com/?page_id=143

Very cool, thanks!

gobler
12-30-2010, 3:23 PM
Well if I have done this correctly then I get these results.

Top of the list

Texas 0.446
Idaho 0.384
Iowa 0.347
Wyoming 0.342
Indiana 0.339
Mississippi 0.330
Virginia 0.319
Missouri 0.236
Nevada 0.235
Arizona 0.232
Alabama 0.226
Pennsylvania 0.209
Tennessee 0.207
Utah 0.197
Nebraska 0.159
Georgia 0.149
Arkansas 0.113

:yes: Well all but one state (KY), that I have thought about is on this list. Again if I did this correctly as I moved most sliders towards the 0 if not 0. Some like legal gambling and marijuana use I put at 100 (total freedom)

thrasherfox
12-30-2010, 3:29 PM
California... if you don't have a job or you are here illegaly, then everything is free

LOL.. nice.. not exactly what i was looking for, but that is one way to look at it lol

jl123
12-30-2010, 3:39 PM
Check out New Hampshire:

http://freestateproject.org/101Reasons

Their legislators only make $100/yr

New Hampshire's constitution is one of only four state constitutions that expressly protect citizens' right to revolution (Section 1, Article 10).:eek:

It looks like their statehouse gun ban will be repealed.

SofaGeorge
12-30-2010, 4:21 PM
Bottom line - get out of California. This used to be a great state, but the continual erosion of the quality of life caused by liberal/Democrat politicians and voters who are determined to see this state as a socialist meal ticket have made the state singularly the worst state to live in.

In 1995 I used to live in a small house in Venice, CA. I lived right next door to the "Projects" ie, welfare housing. I worked, paid my rent every month, and drove a 1986 Toyota station wagon that had 150,000 miles on it. The apartments in the projects had twice the floor space of my house. The quality of them... well... basically think "upscale seaside condo with ocean view." I'm not kidding. The welfare families got free seaside condos with ocean views, meticulously maintained for free by the state because the laws of California mandated that they be kept up to very high standards. (My secretary ASKED me to fire her because she had the opportunity to get "section 8" housing in Hollywood, and the apartment she was being offered for free by the state was twice size and much better quality than the dump she was paying for. She wanted to be unemployed in order to improve her quality of life. Free housing. Unemployment and other perks gave higher income. And the free medical was as good as the health insurance she was paying for.) ALL of the cars in the parking lot of the projects were new SUVs, Mercedes, basically you name it... all high end top quality.

The mothers at the projects usually had a live in boyfriend. She didn't marry because that would have slashed the bonus payments she got for being a single mom with kids. So between her welfare, SSI add ons, his welfare and SSI add ones etc... gave these families much better quality of living than many of the working families in the neighborhood.

This was 1995. I drove by recently to stop and say "hi" to a couple of old neighbors... including one family I knew that lived in the projects. 15 years later she still had the same apartment... and she showed by the lovely new flat screen TV her boyfriend of 20+ year... and father of her 4-5 kids... bought her for Christmas.

This stuff happens in other states, but in California it happens on a scale like on no other planet.

In West Hollywood, for years the gay guys with HIV made serious bank. The state would buy them 4 growth hormone kits a month... and then they would sell each kit for $1500 to the bodybuilders. Prices on this scam seriously dropped when people started ordering GH from China... and the bodybuilders could order direct for only $100... but not until after a couple billion of California tax payer money got flushed down the pipes because California does next to zero to investigate different forms of welfare and SSI fraud.

This is a state where working citizens have fewer rights than the unemployed.

This is a state where the majority of working families go through each month at a lower standard of living than many of the welfare lifers. (A welfare "lifer" is the nickname for the people who have mastered the system and can milk SSI, welfare, and all the other support programs for life.)

Yes... this is a problem in every state... but no other state compares to California. California is a socialist democracy bordering on becoming a socialist dictatorship. It is not going to improve. Jerry Brown is going to have 8 years to nail every peg he can pound into California's coffin.

I'm moving to Georgia. After 3 years I will move to Utah, Nevada or Arizona... or Texas.

One of the country's top CEOs is a former client of mine. He just moved to Wyoming. He is in a club called "Young Presidents Organization." (WPO) This is a club for people under 50 who are Presidents of companies that have (I think... I may be off on these numbers) more than 20 employees and over 10 million in annual sales. He told me prior to his move that roughly a third of his chapter are discussing moves to different states. This will mean not just moving the CEO... but also the jobs that go with the company... OUT of California. I can't verify if he was being accurate or blowing smoke... but even the fact that the topic came up as a group meeting agenda discussion speaks volumes. If these guys (and gals) actually have it on the burner to discuss the advantages of leaving California... it means it is time to get out of Dodge.

1JimMarch
12-30-2010, 4:37 PM
I've talked to a few people from Utah who weren't Mormon. They all made a very interesting claim: if you get into court on any matter, and you're up against a Mormon when you're not, you are very likely screwed.

Judges will go out of their way to figure out if you're a Mormon or not. And the Judge seats are elected offices.

If Mormons are willing to intrude into *California* elections (ahem prop 8 cough) then you can bet they're going to do so in their home turf.

The other state where Mormons are trying to take over state politics is AZ. They haven't succeeded yet, outside of a few pockets in the northern part. But they're clearly trying. I don't think they'll succeed to the degree they have in Utah, they just don't have the numbers.

Anyways. AZ's climate when you get north of Phoenix by about 50 miles or so improves radically. Right along with the elevation, by a few thousand feet. By the time you've hit Prescott or Sedona you're in one of the best climates on earth.

The other option is Tucson, which despite being further south doesn't get "as" hot as Phoenix. That's where I am right now. 3/4ths of the year the weather here is pretty good, it's that three to four month chunk of the worst summer that gets brutal, although not as bad as Phoenix and it doesn't last as long either.

Big, BIG advantage in AZ: desert shooting. GREAT way to work on your real handgun skills, including speed draws, rapid-fire, moving while shooting and the like that would get you tossed off any range :). I use dollar-store praline crackers as targets, don't have to clean up after :D.

Another reason to stay the hell out of Phoenix: between the Phoenix PD and the Maricopa County sheriff's office, you find more psychotic cops per square mile than almost anyplace else in the US. Phoenix PD is the biggest bunch of screwballs with badges anywhere this side of the worst parts of Mexico.

MasterYong
12-30-2010, 4:39 PM
Can't you have the 20mm in ca tho? No way that's intended to be fired from the shoulder. I thought we could have 20mm if it wasn't shoulder fired weapon.

gotthelife4u
12-30-2010, 4:47 PM
If I were to move out of California I think I would have to consider Oregon. I really like the weather of the Pacific Northwest.

thrasherfox
12-30-2010, 4:53 PM
Can't you have the 20mm in ca tho? No way that's intended to be fired from the shoulder. I thought we could have 20mm if it wasn't shoulder fired weapon.


I dont think we can have a 20mm period.

But as far as not being shoulder fired, here are a few videos for you.

I would love to have my dad come up and have me say "hey, lets go to the range" then see the look on his face when I pulled out a 20mm lol

But check out these videos


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4Dea5iae4A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx7AfAyEies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9NxHj1R04g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vQViMUhcvM

J.D.Allen
12-30-2010, 5:01 PM
Well if I have done this correctly then I get these results.

Top of the list

Texas 0.446
Idaho 0.384
Iowa 0.347
Wyoming 0.342
Indiana 0.339
Mississippi 0.330
Virginia 0.319
Missouri 0.236
Nevada 0.235
Arizona 0.232
Alabama 0.226
Pennsylvania 0.209
Tennessee 0.207
Utah 0.197
Nebraska 0.159
Georgia 0.149
Arkansas 0.113

:yes: Well all but one state (KY), that I have thought about is on this list. Again if I did this correctly as I moved most sliders towards the 0 if not 0. Some like legal gambling and marijuana use I put at 100 (total freedom)

TX is really nice. I love San Antonio and Austin, Houston is too big for me. It seems like a place where the cost of living is low but you can still make a decent salary.

I used to live in Columbus GA. It's nice, but get ready for some humid summers...yuck!

Flopper
12-30-2010, 5:18 PM
Can't you have the 20mm in ca tho? No way that's intended to be fired from the shoulder. I thought we could have 20mm if it wasn't shoulder fired weapon.

Destructive Device:

12301
(3) Any weapon of a caliber greater than 0.60 caliber which fires fixed ammunition, or any ammunition therefor, other than a shotgun (smooth or rifled bore) conforming to the definition of a "destructive device" found in subsection (b) of Section 479.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations. . .

Unfortunately no loophole here as with a Ma Deuce because the language says "weapon" not "rifle."

chris
12-30-2010, 5:54 PM
Wyoming would be nice if i could move. i would have to find a job first and not sure about the job market there. but AZ would be a choice i have family in Prescott.


Jerry Brown is going to have 8 years to nail every peg he can pound into California's coffin.

and the first nail in this coffin is on Jerry Brown's first day in office he has an agenda to just tax the living crap out of us and it will happen folks sad to say but it will.


Yes... this is a problem in every state... but no other state compares to California. California is a socialist democracy bordering on becoming a socialist dictatorship. It is not going to improve. I'm moving to Georgia. After 3 years I will move to Utah, Nevada or Arizona... or Texas.

you are correct no state is perfect but this state is the laughing stock of the country. it is my firm belief that the liberals were given a choice in what state they want to test their socialist agenda and they chose this one. and so far it's working but truth be told the day of financial reckoning is coming and i for one i want to see this state burn at the stake financially.


This is a state where working citizens have fewer rights than the unemployed.


don't forget the criminals. they have more rights that lawfull citizens do.

So***eorge sorry gutting your post but i found these to be what i found to stand out.

Ding126
12-30-2010, 6:26 PM
My vote is for Arizona. If you can afford it, you can get it. Instant back ground check..cash and carry.

SoCalCitizen
12-30-2010, 6:49 PM
Ya'all are clogging up the air waves with all this pissing and moaning. I bet more than half of you who actually leave Cali, will be back pronto with your tail between your legs. Get on with it already, don't let the door hit your backside. Good luck

Colt-45
12-30-2010, 6:56 PM
Utah. Very mild 4 season climate and has one of the best 2A report cards around.
NRA - A+
Brady - F

I like VT and AZ. In UTAH I would have alot of trouble coming across real BEER and/or affordable beer for that matter. :(

I Almost forgot Kentucky is good too, they have the Knob Creek Machine gun shoot :43:

31vm3-BQRJU


Only in America.:patriot:

:79:

todd2968
12-30-2010, 6:56 PM
That's easy the STATE of Denial

GOEX FFF
12-30-2010, 7:14 PM
I have been leaning towards AK, but its so damn far away(even farther from my family than I already am). AZ would be the best choice if I were to consider location.


Good choice. AK is nice and all, but I recall its a real pain and expensive to get ammo shipped there, as like HI, it cant go by air and a UPS driver from J&G I don't think is gonna be headed that way anytime soon. :scooter: :gene:

thrasherfox
12-30-2010, 7:36 PM
Ya'all are clogging up the air waves with all this pissing and moaning. I bet more than half of you who actually leave Cali, will be back pronto with your tail between your legs. Get on with it already, don't let the door hit your backside. Good luck

Not really sure where you get that from.


I am 48. I have lived in Texas, South Carolina.

I have visited and spent time in Arizona, Nevada.

I have been over seas.

And I read alot and listen and learn about other states. California has lost its apeal to me.

I went to Arizona once, the first time I took a gun with me. I called the local Sherrifs department to ask them the correct way to carry a handgun.

The officer no kidding chuckled at me on the phone and said Arizona wasn't all screwed up like California. He told me to keep the weapon on my seat and if I got pulled over just make sure the officer knew about it.

I then asked if it could be loaded, he then asked me a question back, he said "what good is an unloaded gun? of course it can be loaded, it is useless otherwise"

I have a friend who him and his wife moved from southern California to New Mexico.

This was about 3 years ago. said it was the best thing him and his wife ever did, he said they love it there.

So I dont know what you like about California, but I am happy for you. the only thing I would miss is the ocean and the roads for my street bike. But I am sure I would get over it. Too many liberals in this state, and liberals cant think for themselves. majority are just sheep following a cause and they really dont know why, they just do it.

And they usually make decision based on false information. THAT is one of the biggest reason this state is all screwed up.

Anyone in the military and especially those who have been in theater can tell you usually what the media reports and what is true are totally different things. yet the liberals believe whatever is on the news.

So yeah, I am dont with this state. just need to get the stars to align correctly so I can get out of here.

Nodda Duma
12-30-2010, 9:58 PM
These guys actually put together HARD DATA on freedom in the 50 states and put together an index of freedom:

http://www.statepolicyindex.com/?page_id=143

I actually used that paper as one of the factors in selecting a state to move to. As luck would have it, New Hampshire has a very solid industry base to support my profession as an optical engineer.... In two days I start driving there, and will start working at my new job on the 10th of January. There's a big gun show in Manchester on the 8th and 9th, and I can't wait to see what's there.

As far as Vermont goes, if the only thing you care about are guns then it is a great state. Otherwise, it is pretty liberal.

-Jason

dustoff31
12-30-2010, 10:08 PM
Another reason to stay the hell out of Phoenix: between the Phoenix PD and the Maricopa County sheriff's office, you find more psychotic cops per square mile than almost anyplace else in the US. Phoenix PD is the biggest bunch of screwballs with badges anywhere this side of the worst parts of Mexico.

Meh, who wants to live in Phoenix anyway? They might as well be in LA.

Cool Hand Luke
12-30-2010, 10:12 PM
Ya'all are clogging up the air waves with all this pissing and moaning. I bet more than half of you who actually leave Cali, will be back pronto with your tail between your legs. Get on with it already, don't let the door hit your backside. Good luck

That's a bet you would probably lose. The entire side of my mom's family used to be spread out between Orange, Riverside and San Bernardino counties. We are talking almost 20 ppl. My grandma, 5 blood uncles and aunts, and cousins(both children and adults). Every single one has moved out of state gradually since the early 90s. You know how many have returned? NONE. Only my mom remains and my parents just bought a house in Colorado and will be gone too in 5 years tops.

thrasherfox
12-30-2010, 10:32 PM
Everyone I have ever known that has moved out of California loves it. and doesnt regret it one bit.

I hope to some day be one of those people

resident-shooter
12-30-2010, 10:46 PM
I like VT and AZ. In UTAH I would have alot of trouble coming across real BEER and/or affordable beer for that matter. :(

I Almost forgot Kentucky is good too, they have the Knob Creek Machine gun shoot :43:

31vm3-BQRJU


Only in America.:patriot:

:79:

Um no. Free countries like Somalia and Afghanistan have that too when they see invaders walking by.

safewaysecurity
12-30-2010, 11:21 PM
I would most likely liek to have a big house in New Hampshire and a second home in Alaska for vacations or something.

CalBear
12-30-2010, 11:39 PM
A lot of people like VT because of its constitutional gun laws. You'll find that both are very good for gun owners. VT has constitutional carry and NH has extremely easily obtained CCWs and open carry. But there is more to be told about VT. I read a very good write-up explaining some of the deep seated differences between VT and NH, two states that are typically seen as brothers. The reality is the two could not be more different in many ways.

I know the political map is pretty diverse here, but it's pretty clear how it tends to lean. VT has transformed from a republican stronghold to one of the most liberal states in the union. They also have some of the most rigorous environmental laws in the nation. VT has pretty extreme limits on growth and development to preserve the setting. The constitution also says that private property is subservient to the greater public good when necessary.

New Hampshire, OTOH, is undoubtedly the most conservative of New England states. They have allowed for quite a bit of growth, which has created a fairly sizable economy. The state is still fairly small and sparsely populated, but the southern areas have grown. NH values private property above almost anything. Their state government is set up to prevent abuse of power. They also have neither a state income tax, nor a general sales tax.

If you want to carry guns in around a maple syrup factory, in a very picturesque and rural place that typifies fall foliage and postcards, but with a lot of yuppies and some of the points I spoke to above, you'll prefer Vermont. It's honestly a lovely state -- it's just not for everyone.

If you are committed to finding a state that typifies libertarian values, many freedoms, and lots of checks on government, you'll prefer NH. NH still has beautiful falls and a lot of outdoor activities. It's just not as "quaint" as Vermont.

FastFinger
12-30-2010, 11:47 PM
Here's a direct link to the Adjustable Freedom Index (http://freedom.robocourt.com/) - just input what's most important to you (RKBA, taxes, education etc.) and it will rank the states according to your hierarchy. This is from a site noted earlier, but this handy feature isn't highlighted as well as it could be.

alex45auto
12-31-2010, 12:07 AM
Gotta be Texas!!! Where else can you drive around your truck with a gun rack?

jtmkinsd
12-31-2010, 1:33 AM
Gotta be Texas!!! Where else can you drive around your truck with a gun rack?

umm...you can do that here...gun should just be locked to the rack so you don't end up violating the Fed GFSZ act.

ENVYGREEN
12-31-2010, 3:24 AM
I second Prescott area I bought a incredibly affordable vacation spot outside of there. It's been snowing for the last two days and never goes over 95 in summer. It's like a milder Temecula. Consequently I have a bunch of bullet buttons to sell!

hawk81
12-31-2010, 4:23 AM
Arizona is the most friendly gun state. They don't cater to illegals either.

ZX-10R
12-31-2010, 7:44 AM
I know which are not NY and CA are not gun friendly. Two very democratic states.

N6ATF
12-31-2010, 10:08 AM
As others have said, the state that the Brady Campaign ranks as the worst. LOL

Pred@tor
12-31-2010, 2:18 PM
New Hampshire www.freestateproject.org/

http://www.freestatewyoming.org Wyoming

http://freemontana.com/ Montana

There was a north western free state alliance type group a few years ago I can't seem to find them.

Missouri isnt bad either but we do have restrictions on social aspects of life. Still much less regulation than California...

GWbiker
12-31-2010, 8:56 PM
Meh, who wants to live in Phoenix anyway? They might as well be in LA.

But can you OC a loaded handgun in public in LA?

dustoff31
12-31-2010, 9:18 PM
But can you OC a loaded handgun in public in LA?

Of course not. But other than that, and summer, there isn't much difference.

I live in AZ, BTW, just nowhere near PHX.

RomanDad
12-31-2010, 10:12 PM
I just visited my property in Indiana... My lake was frozen... But Beautiful... And free.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y154/MovieLawyer/IMG_0838.jpg

CharlieK
12-31-2010, 11:31 PM
If a lack of gun control AND low taxes are important to you, the best state is Tennessee or Alaska. Nevada is also great for low taxes but only fair for gun control.

maverick0379
01-01-2011, 9:00 PM
I moved from MD to KY and its a world of difference. CCW to almost anyone. Private party gun sales. You can buy handguns at the flea market. No waiting period. Ammo and reloading supplies are everywere.

GearHead
01-01-2011, 10:36 PM
I would vote for CO. Beautiful, 4 seasons, great gun laws (outside of Denver but **** that place anyway) and hot women.

locosway
01-02-2011, 5:29 AM
Ya'all are clogging up the air waves with all this pissing and moaning. I bet more than half of you who actually leave Cali, will be back pronto with your tail between your legs. Get on with it already, don't let the door hit your backside. Good luck

A lot of family and almost all of my old friends have moved out of state. Most of them don't even own guns, but they understand that CA is a losing battle. None of them have ever once considered coming back.

My wife and I moved our family to Oregon and it was just great. Unfortunately the job market for what I do in Southern Oregon wasn't there, and we were forced to move back to California because we have some immediate family still here. If we get a chance, we're moving back to OR, although I'm entertaining CO since my works corporate headquarters is there.

ElectronWrangler
01-02-2011, 10:27 AM
Moved to San Angelo, TX for what was supposed to be 5 years of building wind farms and Sub Stations. T Boone backed out and pulled funding from some critical projects and the company pulled up stakes and moved back to CA. At least I got my move payed for both ways. But when I feel homesick on a daily basis it's not tomato fields I see but cotton fields and rolling hills of live oak. This socialist libtard of a state can kiss my ***** and it only took 7 months of freedom to ruin it for me.

locosway
01-02-2011, 10:29 AM
Moved to San Angelo, TX for what was supposed to be 5 years of building wind farms and Sub Stations. T Boone backed out and pulled funding from some critical projects and the company pulled up stakes and moved back to CA. At least I got my move payed for both ways. But when I feel homesick on a daily basis it's not tomato fields I see but cotton fields and rolling hills of live oak. This socialist libtard of a state can kiss my ***** and it only took 7 months of freedom to ruin it for me.

I was only in OR for 6-7 months too, and it sure ruined it for me.

Logan3
01-02-2011, 10:43 AM
Don't think about New Hampshire. We are full up. :D

ttboy
01-02-2011, 5:39 PM
I was ready to move to Free America "Arizona" in 2010 but didn't work out so I'm stuck in Kalifornia. I visit AZ four times a year to taste some freedom which will suffice for now. But my heart is in ARIZONA.

P.S. Will continue to contribute to Calguns to fight the good fight.

HondaMasterTech
01-02-2011, 5:44 PM
To anyone leaving California for greener grass; Be sure you don't choose your destination based soley on gun laws. Sure, you may be able to walk around with a fully automatic machine gun. But, what's the point if there is no economy? Or, if it's a place whos primary economy is the export of corn.

There is more to life than guns and gun laws. California has plenty of laws to complain about, with good reason. But, you can still have lots of guns in California. And, things are going to get better in that respect. If you like California for everything but it's gun laws, you should stay. If not, there are better places to live ;)

PokerFace
01-02-2011, 5:47 PM
;)Texas

Pavel
01-02-2011, 10:43 PM
I am obsessed with Class 3, title 2 firearms in general, so California bites the big one for me. After many deciding factors to stay in Cal. came in to play, I decided that the only way to do it is to get damn permits from DOJ and be able to have the fun stuff here... (I know, I know, FAT chance)

But seriously, as an up and comming FFL/07 I am halfway there, and I have had positive feedback from DOJ so far...hmm.. ( I know, still, FAT chance):mad:

Hunt
01-03-2011, 12:25 AM
NH they got the Free State Project going and something like 15 Free staters have been elected to office, they are actually rolling back the tyranny in NH

http://freestateproject.org/

Colt-45
01-03-2011, 12:38 AM
Um no. Free countries like Somalia and Afghanistan have that too when they see invaders walking by.

NO. There is no chance in hell they have access to the same firearms as the common man in American Free-States do. Law abiding of course.

And I doubt Somalians and Afghans have the cash to do things like the one in the video, just for fun.

Let's not go offtopic.:rolleyes:

Hunt
01-03-2011, 3:14 AM
I actually used that paper as one of the factors in selecting a state to move to. As luck would have it, New Hampshire has a very solid industry base to support my profession as an optical engineer.... In two days I start driving there, and will start working at my new job on the 10th of January. There's a big gun show in Manchester on the 8th and 9th, and I can't wait to see what's there.

As far as Vermont goes, if the only thing you care about are guns then it is a great state. Otherwise, it is pretty liberal.

-Jason

hook up with the Free State Project only one way to end the tyranny and that is to have overwhelming numbers of Liberty minded people in one location.

Hunt
01-03-2011, 3:34 AM
New Hampshire www.freestateproject.org/

http://www.freestatewyoming.org Wyoming

http://freemontana.com/ Montana

There was a north western free state alliance type group a few years ago I can't seem to find them.

Missouri isnt bad either but we do have restrictions on social aspects of life. Still much less regulation than California...

FreeGrafton, Freekeene, Freemanch and a new Free South it's catching on ---they tried to put up some radar speed cameras in WYO and they kept disappearing LOL. In Az the Liberty activists would wear masks and fidge their license plates so they had so many refuse to pay tickets that they shut down their gestapo money machine cameras.

Pred@tor
01-03-2011, 3:36 AM
NH they got the Free State Project going and something like 15 Free staters have been elected to office, they are actually rolling back the tyranny in NH

http://freestateproject.org/

I posted that up above ;) as well as other free state projects...

J.D.Allen
01-03-2011, 9:31 AM
A lot of family and almost all of my old friends have moved out of state. Most of them don't even own guns, but they understand that CA is a losing battle. None of them have ever once considered coming back.

My wife and I moved our family to Oregon and it was just great. Unfortunately the job market for what I do in Southern Oregon wasn't there, and we were forced to move back to California because we have some immediate family still here. If we get a chance, we're moving back to OR, although I'm entertaining CO since my works corporate headquarters is there.

I lived in Grants Pass and Medford for about two years. :puke:If I were you I would go to CO over OR any day of the week.

N6ATF
01-03-2011, 12:24 PM
FreeGrafton, Freekeene, Freemanch and a new Free South it's catching on ---they tried to put up some radar speed cameras in WYO and they kept disappearing LOL. In Az the Liberty activists would wear masks and fidge their license plates so they had so many refuse to pay tickets that they shut down their gestapo money machine cameras.

I'm downloading the Johnjay and Rich (radio show based in AZ) 2010 archives and a buttload of them are about Johnjay's experience with those cameras. It'll be funny to hear the progression.

dieselcarpenter
01-03-2011, 1:54 PM
For me, (and I know this has been beat to death here) 2A is not my only defining factor for "Free State". It may well be number one but it's likely in a tie with a number of others.

Here’s my short list of ""FREE""

Guns/weapons, taxes, environmental regulation (smog checks for one), LEO concentration and attitude(including rangers, fish&game etc...) property rights (including water and mineral), Federal/state land multiple use ease, building code leniency, municipal regulation/ordinance's, local govt management/solvency (i.e. infrastructure spending etc... aka how are the roads) I could go on....


I have always been sad that the 2A crowed fights so hard for one aspect of American freedom and seemingly leaves the others. "were keeping the tools to keep freedom!" And yet we have allowed our body of freedom to dwindle while we were distracted elsewhere. In my mind we have lost, all of the "free" states listed here so far are heavily infected with eco-socialism and other forces working at the fringes of our freedom.

What good are the guns when you remain willingly under the whip of the tax man, the EPA, the BLM, and legislative bodies etc....????

Will you sleep better with your Hi-cap M4 next to the bed with your 4 catalytic converter hybrid and 5 recycling bins in the driveway, CFL bulbs in every socket, and a stream running through your backyard you cannot so much as skip a stone in or fish without plastic barbless hooks? Where will your son go on a scout campout, with all fed lands declared wilderness?

These are some of the things I take into account when thinking of a free state.

Because in the end they won’t come for the guns, they won’t need to.

That aside, my votes for Utah, western mountain lands will provide sustenance and solitude during the collapse. VT and NH are crawling with Yuppie Libs who will turn cannibal zombie when the fit hits the shan,cant store that much ammo! :D

That’s my .02

Argonaut
01-03-2011, 1:56 PM
.............+!...................I like Utah too, but it is where my ex-wife lives

Kingcarcas
01-03-2011, 3:03 PM
Fireworks Fireworks Fireworks!! :TFH:

Where can somebody go buy a 6-pack and light some fireworks while shooting their rifles?? That would ironically remind me of the times i spent in Mexico......

As far as Alaska, i was watching some show a while back where the cops were cracking down on alcohol! WTH? They say the natives are all bums with nothing better to do but drink all day so they are cracking down, i don't know what the deal is but that doesn't seem "free" to me.

Some of our family moved to Seattle and a few others to North Dakota, for me the only places i can really consider moving to would be Washington or Colorado.

The thing is neither place really has any good theme parks :( For me it would be hard to let go of my rollercoasters + Dodgers + Concerts n such just to be able to light fireworks whenever and shoot guns. (As far as the fireworks go we find a way to get them in, but that is another story):43:

Coded-Dude
01-03-2011, 3:14 PM
Local Option
Almost 30 years ago the Alaska legislature passed a “local option” law designed to help communities combat alcohol abuse, and the related problems of fetal alcohol syndrome, domestic violence, sexual abuse, suicide, accidental deaths, juvenile crime, and violent crime.

Dry Communities
The provisions of the local option law are complex, in part because the regulations have been amended over time, but the essence of the law states that communities can hold elections to decide whether they will be designated a dry, damp or wet community. In a dry community, alcohol is prohibited. It cannot be legally imported, produced, sold or consumed within the community by anyone. Of the 200 or so isolated, rural towns and villages in Alaska, approximately 136 have voted to become dry.

Damp Towns
The hub communities in rural Alaska, such as Barrow, Bethel, Kotzebue, and Dillingham provide medical, social, legal, and transportation services to the smaller villages in their region. Most of the hub towns are damp. This means limited amounts of alcohol can be imported for personal use. Each community sets its own limits for the type and amount of alcohol that can be imported, and determines the penalties for violations. In most communities illegally importing or selling alcohol is a class C felony.

Wet Urban Areas
Larger towns such as Anchorage, Fairbanks, and Juneau are wet. These communities have liquor stores, grocery stores that sell beer and wine, and restaurants and bars that serve alcohol. Retailers in these communities are required to know and obey the local option laws when shipping alcohol to rural communities. Recently, a statewide database that tracks alcohol purchases and shipments to damp communities has been established. It is hoped the database will catch offenders who order from multiple suppliers in order to violate importation limitations.

Bootlegging and Smugglers
Though the local option provision has been in place for several years, alcohol abuse remains a prevalent problem in the bush due to bootlegging and smuggling. The Alaska State Troopers Drug and Alcohol Report explains that these are very lucrative crimes. A bottle of liquor costing only $10 in an urban liquor store will sell for $50 in a damp hub-town like Kotzebue or Barrow, and more than $150 a in a dry village like Point Hope or Selewick.



SOURCE ("http://www.suite101.com/content/alcohol-laws-in-rural-alaska-a51697#ixzz1A166czWW)

i guess you'd be exempt if you decided to live outside the jurisdiction of one of the rural areas. Go off grid and make your own alcohol. i didn't know they had such laws, but its not all that different from the red river towns of OK and TX.

Baconator
01-03-2011, 3:22 PM
Looking at Texas. Actually got my wife to agree to go look at it after years of her saying no way we are movin out of Cali. Just hate it here; nothing positive going on, schools suck for my kids, the business environment just keep getting worse.

Hunt
01-03-2011, 4:16 PM
I would love to see the day moonbeam walks out to the Governor's balcony contemplating the $20B deficit looks across the horizon and all he sees is a line of welfare recipents, protesting public service unions demanding a pension raise along with every educated and productive person leaving the State. As moonbeam wanders in contemplation on how to solve the problem, he discovers his car has been towed to the sheriff's crony impound yard because he didn't see the 3"x4" no parking sign behind a bush (no appeal or trial of course). Then he opens his mail to find the local building official has arbitrarily cited and fined him for not having the proper light bulbs, (no appeal or trial of course). He goes to his study for a break to discover the smart electric meter has been turned off by a bureaucrat 500 miles away. All stressed out he has a heart attack so his affirmative action employee personal assistant tries to call 911 but all the automated messages in 11 different languages aren't understood, the assistant eventually finds a translator. The paramedic help arrives and are allowed in the room after a State Police fondling, only to learn moonbeam's paperwork to participate in the new socialized medicine program wasn't approved because they forgot to date one signature. May Kalifornia's Atlas shrug, soon, very soon.

bombadillo
01-03-2011, 4:25 PM
I have been trying to get out to Idaho, Colorado, or Utah myself but am waiting on a transfer at work.

DougJ
01-03-2011, 4:59 PM
LOL, nice rant.

I would love to see the day moonbeam walks out to the Governor's balcony contemplating the $20B deficit looks across the horizon and all he sees is a line of welfare recipents, protesting public service unions demanding a pension raise along with every educated and productive person leaving the State. As moonbeam wanders in contemplation on how to solve the problem, he discovers his car has been towed to the sheriff's crony impound yard because he didn't see the 3"x4" no parking sign behind a bush (no appeal or trial of course). Then he opens his mail to find the local building official has arbitrarily cited and fined him for not having the proper light bulbs, (no appeal or trial of course). He goes to his study for a break to discover the smart electric meter has been turned off by a bureaucrat 500 miles away. All stressed out he has a heart attack so his affirmative action employee personal assistant tries to call 911 but all the automated messages in 11 different languages aren't understood, the assistant eventually finds a translator. The paramedic help arrives and are allowed in the room after a State Police fondling, only to learn moonbeam's paperwork to participate in the new socialized medicine program wasn't approved because they forgot to date one signature. May Kalifornia's Atlas shrug, soon, very soon.

rimfire78
01-03-2011, 5:08 PM
New Hampshire

N6ATF
01-03-2011, 5:15 PM
HA! http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=49438&d=1268851072

Mac Attack
01-03-2011, 8:03 PM
I moved back to CA from GA in 2008 thinking it would be a better place to raise my family and plant our roots. I promised my wife and kids that CA would be the haven we were looking for. Two years later I realized CA is not the land of milk and cookies as I had hoped. Sometimes you don't realize a good thing until it's gone. Needless to say we are in the process of moving back to the wonderful state of GA (as a matter of fact I am typing this reply from GA) as soon as we can find a new house. My wife and kids moved back last summer and I am just trying to find a job there. Is it the best state? No, I actually would prefer to live in NC or SC but commerce is better in GA. We also have family from both sides of the family here.

Other than GA I would move to Austin or a suburb of Dallas, TX if I wanted a place outside of the south.

J.D.Allen
01-03-2011, 8:05 PM
I moved back to CA from GA in 2008 thinking it would be a better place to raise my family and plant our roots. I promised my wife and kids that CA would be the haven we were looking for. Two years later I realized CA is not the land of milk and cookies as I had hoped. Sometimes you don't realize a good thing until it's gone. Needless to say we are in the process of moving back to the wonderful state of GA (as a matter of fact I am typing this reply from GA) as soon as we can find a new house. My wife and kids moved back last summer and I am just trying to find a job there. Is it the best state? No, I actually would prefer to live in NC or SD but commerce is better in GA. We also have family from both sides of the family here.

What part of GA?

Mac Attack
01-03-2011, 8:13 PM
I have a house in a city south of Atlanta called Stockbridge in Henry County that we have turned into a rental property. We are in contract on a custom built 2 story with a full basement house in the city of Fayetteville in Fayette County that sits on nearly 8 acres for less than a townhome in SoCal. It ridiculously inexpensive and the city is true old school with all the great southern traits you would expec I.e. friendly people who's kids are taught to be respectilful and polite and who praise God like their lives depend on it. Its s pretty influential area with good schools but no jobs.

GuyW
01-03-2011, 9:02 PM
I would love to see the day moonbeam... sees ....every educated and productive person leaving the State.


He'll pull a reverse Grapes of Wrath and have cops at the CA border turning back anyone who tries to leave...

...Berlin Wall....
.

locosway
01-03-2011, 9:16 PM
I lived in Grants Pass and Medford for about two years. :puke:If I were you I would go to CO over OR any day of the week.

We loved living in Grants Pass. Not so much the town, because there's not much to it, but the area in general was nice. We could be in CA in an hour, or the beach in an hour, Jacksonville wasn't far away, the mall in Medford was 30 mins down the road. And we lived right next to the Rogue!

I've only spent a week in CO, so it's hard to judge it. We really liked OR, but we would go to CO if the opportunity was there.

Hunt
01-03-2011, 9:22 PM
He'll pull a reverse Grapes of Wrath and have cops at the CA border turning back anyone who tries to leave...

...Berlin Wall....
.

ha ha well maybe if you turn over your hammered 401K you can leave, damned greedy people.

CalBear
01-03-2011, 9:39 PM
Overall Freedom Ranking

State Overall freedom

1. New Hampshire 0.432
2. Colorado 0.421
3. South Dakota 0.392
4. Idaho 0.356
5. Texas 0.346
6. Missouri 0.320
7. Tennessee 0.284
8. Arizona 0.279
9. Virginia 0.275
10. North Dakota 0.268
11. Utah 0.250
...
40. Vermont -0.217
41. Connecticut -0.225
42. Illinois -0.238
43. Massachusetts -0.242
44. Washington -0.275
45. Hawaii -0.304
46. Maryland -0.405
47. California -0.413
48. Rhode Island -0.430
49. New Jersey -0.457
50. New York -0.784
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2261639/posts

themailman
01-03-2011, 9:52 PM
I cringed the day I found out that I was to be stationed in CA for 3 years, oh what a horrible time it has been. My original station was in South Carolina...and I thought that was bad lol.

Im from CO, still have a place back there and will be there permanently as of Sep 2012. It used to be one of the top 5 free states, but the libtards of Boulder and Denver have eroded it and washed us in their blue filth. With dems in every seat, I cant see us staying free for very long. We also are one of the few states to work with the Brady bastards on closing the gunshow loophole, go figure. So, if by 2012 my state has declined any further, then it's off to Utah or AZ.

Cool Hand Luke
01-03-2011, 10:17 PM
Im from CO, still have a place back there and will be there permanently as of Sep 2012. It used to be one of the top 5 free states, but the libtards of Boulder and Denver have eroded it and washed us in their blue filth. With dems in every seat, I cant see us staying free for very long. We also are one of the few states to work with the Brady bastards on closing the gunshow loophole, go figure. So, if by 2012 my state has declined any further, then it's off to Utah or AZ.

It probably doesn't help that so many of us Californians, including a lot of my family, have moved there in the last 15 years.

The last time I visited my aunt and uncle there was a blank billboard on the I-70 past Grand Junction right before Palisades, that had been spray painted in big bright red bold letters, "Don't CALIFORNIANATE here M'Frs!" I didn't even know that was a word but I got the message. :laugh:

GWbiker
01-04-2011, 12:15 AM
There's plenty of room for NEW gun owners in Arizona. No permits needed. No stupid handgun roster - buy whatever handgun you want. No crazy AW flowchart. Police are cool with open carry.

Gets a bit warm during summer months, but it's a dry heat.

Come on over.

rod
01-04-2011, 7:34 AM
Ya'all are clogging up the air waves with all this pissing and moaning. I bet more than half of you who actually leave Cali, will be back pronto with your tail between your legs. Get on with it already, don't let the door hit your backside. Good luck

I'm nowhere close to moving back.....EVER!!!! I enjoy my freedom where I'm at now. The weather is nice and I can do the things I enjoy whenever I want.

J.D.Allen
01-04-2011, 8:17 AM
We loved living in Grants Pass. Not so much the town, because there's not much to it, but the area in general was nice. We could be in CA in an hour, or the beach in an hour, Jacksonville wasn't far away, the mall in Medford was 30 mins down the road. And we lived right next to the Rogue!

I've only spent a week in CO, so it's hard to judge it. We really liked OR, but we would go to CO if the opportunity was there.

My mom and my aunt live in Grants Pass, in fact my aunt owns a restaurant there. It's also where they make Noveske AR's. I have to say the rogue IS nice. I guess it just wasn't my cup of tea. I think the weather had a lot to do with it. Having grown up in San Diego I need sunshine. I just can't take overcast and rain non stop from October to May. Plus a lot of the people just seemed a little too "back woodsy" to me. But then again this was eleven years ago so a lot may have changed. But the economy and the employment situation in that whole region is just terrible.

Having said that, if you can get a decent job and can stand the winters, well then I guess it might not be so bad. More power to ya! :cheers2:

J.D.Allen
01-04-2011, 8:18 AM
There's plenty of room for NEW gun owners in Arizona. No permits needed. No stupid handgun roster - buy whatever handgun you want. No crazy AW flowchart. Police are cool with open carry.

Gets a bit warm during summer months, but it's a dry heat.

Come on over.

I'll second that!

bombadillo
01-04-2011, 9:04 AM
Has anybody here lived in southern Idaho. I'm looking at Nampa, Pocatella, Twin Falls, and outskirts of Boise. The wife and I are ready to get out of this place and just need a move. It may only be a couple of years but we just need a change of scenery for a few years or so. I am looking at all of those places for a work transfer and my wages are great compared to most up there so money won't be a huge issue. I like the demo's of people and their voting trends, and in general, it appears to be a solid place to go. Housing is fantastic and I'm just wondering how the rest of it goes and yes it snows of course in the winter time and gets hot in the summer which is half of the draw for me. I'm in Humboldt and its gray all the freakin time up here. I just want real seasons EXACTLY where I'm at instead of having to go an hour and a half to get some sun.

dieselcarpenter
01-04-2011, 1:03 PM
Has anybody here lived in southern Idaho. I'm looking at Nampa, Pocatella, Twin Falls, and outskirts of Boise. The wife and I are ready to get out of this place and just need a move. It may only be a couple of years but we just need a change of scenery for a few years or so. I am looking at all of those places for a work transfer and my wages are great compared to most up there so money won't be a huge issue. I like the demo's of people and their voting trends, and in general, it appears to be a solid place to go. Housing is fantastic and I'm just wondering how the rest of it goes and yes it snows of course in the winter time and gets hot in the summer which is half of the draw for me. I'm in Humboldt and its gray all the freakin time up here. I just want real seasons EXACTLY where I'm at instead of having to go an hour and a half to get some sun.

Lived in Oakley south of Burly for over 3 years great place, gun laws are good, but the eco-socilaism is rampant. Large federal presence with BLM USFS and Fish and Game. water rights are an issue too. But great climate.

gobler
01-04-2011, 3:59 PM
I asked this once before but on the free state sliders, how does it work? If I were to put a slider at 0 does that mean no freedom or total?

J.D.Allen
01-04-2011, 4:11 PM
I asked this once before but on the free state sliders, how does it work? If I were to put a slider at 0 does that mean no freedom or total?

I believe it refers to how important that particular issue is to you. The higher the number the more you care about it. The lower the number the less you care about it.

Write Winger
01-04-2011, 4:28 PM
Why would anyone think vermont is a free state? This is the land of Bernie sanders and Howard dean for cryin out loud!

gobler
01-04-2011, 5:14 PM
OK here is a snapshot of how I chose...

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/198981/staterank01.jpg

Being a libertarian I do not want drugs, gambling, prostitution, guns or anything that does not harm another person to be illegal. I also want Gov to be the least involved with more personal freedom.

Tack
01-04-2011, 6:22 PM
We need to be near a hub airport and would like to be near the center of the US. I work hi tech. I think that puts a crimp on Utah or Wyoming. Arizona and Texas are at the top of our list so far.

Am I missing another hub city with tech companies in a free state?

Ford8N
01-04-2011, 8:20 PM
Ha, if you max out the interactive map California is still seventh lowest piece of c**p!

willm952
01-04-2011, 9:04 PM
I'd say Utah. If you take a Utah non-res CFP class, you'll know why.
Best self-defense laws in the country. Even if you came to the defense of another. Just read the actual wording regarding use of lethal force. That includes property. Just no guns in churches w/o their prior approval.

SBR, full-auto pre-86 of course. Just about anything. Home of Impact Guns too!
Salt Lake City made the 10 best list of cities that are projected to grow. Just ignore the Mormons and stay out of small towns unless you're white, seriously. AZ would be my second choice. Sedona is hot in summer but cools down at night and Flagstaff gets almost yearly snow.

Third out of respect for Sheriff Palmer and Sal the New Yorker, Grant County Oregon.

Just finished my CHL (ccw) app this past Sunday in Chino SoCal! Thanks to the Cal-Gunners who brought and were so kind to leave extra envelopes with stamps on them. Greatly appreciated the help Gents!

ja308
01-04-2011, 9:52 PM
after AZ--AK-Vt --Oklahoma is worth a look -- politically some gutsy folks
amendment 10 --plus resolution --no International law ---rkba in state constitution
JA308

ja308
01-04-2011, 9:57 PM
I would love to see the day moonbeam walks out to the Governor's balcony contemplating the $20B deficit looks across the horizon and all he sees is a line of welfare recipents, protesting public service unions demanding a pension raise along with every educated and productive person leaving the State. As moonbeam wanders in contemplation on how to solve the problem, he discovers his car has been towed to the sheriff's crony impound yard because he didn't see the 3"x4" no parking sign behind a bush (no appeal or trial of course). Then he opens his mail to find the local building official has arbitrarily cited and fined him for not having the proper light bulbs, (no appeal or trial of course). He goes to his study for a break to discover the smart electric meter has been turned off by a bureaucrat 500 miles away. All stressed out he has a heart attack so his affirmative action employee personal assistant tries to call 911 but all the automated messages in 11 different languages aren't understood, the assistant eventually finds a translator. The paramedic help arrives and are allowed in the room after a State Police fondling, only to learn moonbeam's paperwork to participate in the new socialized medicine program wasn't approved because they forgot to date one signature. May Kalifornia's Atlas shrug, soon, very soon.

^5 JA308

davedog01
01-04-2011, 10:08 PM
I love Idaho. I've done a lot of work and play up in Coure D' Alene which is in the Northern panhandle. 1 hour from Spokane Int'l Airport, 2 hours from Canada, and really has some of the most beautiful country I've ever scene. You can buy guns out of the local newspaper- cash and carry. It's funny, when I talk to people in Idaho about 10round mags, bullet buttons and handgun drop tests they often ask "...how does that make you safe? I don't understand..."

It's worth a look. 5% sales tax and twice the gov't services. Property is cheap too.

ja308
01-04-2011, 11:01 PM
could be sorta fun to boycott or delay purchases until out of state .
We buy mostly everything in GOP orange county . Or deal with businesses we have proven to be pro freedom.
The biggest mistake we can make is to do nothing ,because we can only do a little.
Ja308

N6ATF
01-04-2011, 11:11 PM
"GOP orange county"? Starve the victim disarming-beast there called Hutchens.

cvc04
01-06-2011, 11:01 AM
Jim Rawles over at SurvivalBlog.com has a list of retreat areas that I've been looking at. If self reliance is important to you it's worth a look.
http://www.survivalblog.com/retreatareas.html

J.D.Allen
01-06-2011, 11:08 AM
We need to be near a hub airport and would like to be near the center of the US. I work hi tech. I think that puts a crimp on Utah or Wyoming. Arizona and Texas are at the top of our list so far.

Am I missing another hub city with tech companies in a free state?

Atlanta?

One of the biggest damn airports I've ever seen. And it's a nice city. It's actually pretty progressive for being in the deep south. They call it the New York of the south with good reason.

Also what about Dallas?

DougJ
01-06-2011, 11:40 AM
Jim Rawles over at SurvivalBlog.com has a list of retreat areas that I've been looking at. If self reliance is important to you it's worth a look.
http://www.survivalblog.com/retreatareas.html


Interesting. Idaho has floated to the top of my list, and it's #1 on his...

CalBear
01-06-2011, 11:46 AM
Why would anyone think vermont is a free state? This is the land of Bernie sanders and Howard dean for cryin out loud!
Because people here tend to get wrapped up in gun rights and not consider much of anything else. Vermont is hardly a free state when it comes to anything except guns. It has transformed into a fairly controlled, collectivist state with rigid environmental rules that prohibit growth. New Hampshire is the much freer state.

Milsurp Collector
01-06-2011, 12:44 PM
Am I missing another hub city with tech companies in a free state?

Seattle-Tacoma is a hub airport. I think there is a software company of some type located nearby in Redmond, WA.

Bungie is in Bellevue, WA and they are hiring http://www.bungie.net/Inside/aboutus.aspx

ultra01
01-06-2011, 12:47 PM
Texas!

21SF
01-06-2011, 12:51 PM
Dont mean to thread jack....but...

Same question as OP but... Im mexican and would like not to be linched? Or discriminated against? lol

N6ATF
01-06-2011, 1:01 PM
Mexican in terms of country of birth? Or in terms of citizenship? I am an American citizen with British ancestry, but I don't say I'm British.

21SF
01-06-2011, 1:17 PM
Mexican in terms of country of birth? Or in terms of citizenship? I am an American citizen with British ancestry, but I don't say I'm British.

Lol, born in truckee california! So ancestry, but i dont think racist ask that. lol

locosway
01-06-2011, 1:23 PM
Mexican in terms of country of birth? Or in terms of citizenship? I am an American citizen with British ancestry, but I don't say I'm British.

This is an issue for me too. For some reason we have Mexican or Mexican-Americans, but to me either they're one or the other. I don't run around saying I'm Greek-American, or German-American. Hell, even my grandma who is a German citizen considers herself American.

Hyphenations need to go away. We're either American, or we're not.

J.D.Allen
01-06-2011, 1:35 PM
Why would anyone think vermont is a free state? This is the land of Bernie sanders and Howard dean for cryin out loud!

Not to mention Ben and Jerry!

J.D.Allen
01-06-2011, 1:37 PM
This is an issue for me too. For some reason we have Mexican or Mexican-Americans, but to me either they're one or the other. I don't run around saying I'm Greek-American, or German-American. Hell, even my grandma who is a German citizen considers herself American.

Hyphenations need to go away. We're either American, or we're not.

Ummm, no.

N6ATF
01-06-2011, 1:47 PM
'American' is not a race that you can claim unless your earliest recorded ancestry was indigenous. By default, it should be used to refer to nationality. Therefore you should only refer to yourself by race if you are specifically asked your race, or what your ancestry is. All other inquiries such as "what are you?" should default to nationality. Citizens of Mexico can say "I'm Mexican", citizens of Germany can say "I'm German", and so on. Race is irrelevant in determining nationality unless you are already in a country that does not grant citizenship to anyone not possessing the common genetic markers.

J.D.Allen
01-06-2011, 1:50 PM
'American' is not a race that you can claim unless your earliest recorded ancestry was indigenous. By default, it should be used to refer to nationality. Therefore you should only refer to yourself by race if you are specifically asked your race, or what your ancestry is. All other inquiries such as "what are you?" should default to nationality. Citizens of Mexico can say "I'm Mexican", citizens of Germany can say "I'm German", and so on.

BINGO!

Most people confuse race and nationality. "Mexican" is not a race. It is a nationality. My kids are "Mexican-American" because their mother is a Mexican national, and I am an American national. Culturally and linguistically, my kids are both.

N6ATF
01-06-2011, 1:56 PM
So your kids are dual citizens? If they go to Mexico when they are of age, they can own property?

mike_schwartz@mail.com
01-06-2011, 8:26 PM
http://freestateproject.org//

New Hampshire is the most free state.

wildhawker
01-06-2011, 9:36 PM
http://freestateproject.org//

New Hampshire is the most free state.

I'd disagree on a number of grounds (which, in the interest of my marriage, I shant expound upon now), but agree that it does have some elements of a free state.

In no particular order, I would place WY, ID, CO, MO, KS in the top 5, with NH in the next tier.

mike_schwartz@mail.com
01-07-2011, 6:24 AM
A marriage is a dictatorship in constant danger of a military coup.

BluNorthern
01-07-2011, 10:40 AM
There are other factors to consider. I really miss Idaho and the firearm freedoms I had there. On the other hand... LONG cold winters and minimal plowing/maintenance (no money) and the roads suck, backcountry locked out for a lot of the year unless you're into snowmobiles. Low paying jobs...right to work state...good luck with the California mindset of suing employers for any injustices you may feel you've been a victim of, or any recourse but looking for another job as they whittle your pay and benefits away every year . Legislature the opposite of California's to the extreme..almost straight Republican with no checks, can you say 'good ol' boys'. Special interests and not even the semblance of transparency. Utilities (Avista) a monopoly and greedy as hell with almost guaranteed constant rate hikes. If you want your gun freedoms but like a lot of the benefits of what is provided here in California you may be in for a rude awakening. I would move back and may in the future when my position is better, but I'm here now because of the economy up there. It's not for everyone. We're actually looking at central Oregon in a couple of years.

J.D.Allen
01-07-2011, 11:08 AM
There are other factors to consider. I really miss Idaho and the firearm freedoms I had there. On the other hand... LONG cold winters and minimal plowing/maintenance (no money) and the roads suck, backcountry locked out for a lot of the year unless you're into snowmobiles. Low paying jobs...right to work state...good luck with the California mindset of suing employers for any injustices you may feel you've been a victim of, or any recourse but looking for another job as they whittle your pay and benefits away every year . Legislature the opposite of California's to the extreme..almost straight Republican with no checks, can you say 'good ol' boys'. Special interests and not even the semblance of transparency. Utilities (Avista) a monopoly and greedy as hell with almost guaranteed constant rate hikes. If you want your gun freedoms but like a lot of the benefits of what is provided here in California you may be in for a rude awakening. I would move back and may in the future when my position is better, but I'm here now because of the economy up there. It's not for everyone. We're actually looking at central Oregon in a couple of years.


You're here because of a bad economy, and you're thinking of going to central Oregon???

locosway
01-07-2011, 11:12 AM
You're here because of a bad economy, and you're thinking of going to central Oregon???

Oregon is an awesome place, but a lot of the jobs suck. IT jobs are scarce unless you're around Portland.

We really miss Southern Oregon, I just wish I could make the money I do now and live up there.

Write Winger
01-07-2011, 11:20 AM
I almost mentioned Ben and Jerry's, but at least there is redeeming value in what they create other than pushing their hippie nonsense. I mean, half baked is awesome!

BluNorthern
01-07-2011, 1:31 PM
You're here because of a bad economy, and you're thinking of going to central Oregon???I know,,,I know. A man's gotta dream. I'm hoping that my schooling will provide me the opportunity. Like I said, a man's gotta dream.

WWDHD?
01-07-2011, 1:33 PM
I've been looking into Oregon as a possible place to flee to one day. The gun laws may not be the best but way better than CA. I looked on the NRA site for places to shoot and not much came up. Seemed like mostly private clubs. Only been to Oregon a few times as a kid a long time ago. Is this correct? Are there many ranges in the Salem area that anybody can go to?
At least here in the East Bay I have 7 ranges, indoor and out, that I can get to in less than an hour. I'd hate to move to a place with more gun owner rights but nowhere to shoot at.

Milsurp Collector
01-07-2011, 2:04 PM
I've been looking into Oregon as a possible place to flee to one day. The gun laws may not be the best...

What's wrong with Oregon's gun laws? When was the last time you saw a gun or ammo seller say "No sales to Oregon?" ;)


There is a right to keep and bear arms for self-defense in the Oregon Constitution. We didn't have to worry about the outcome of the McDonald decision
No "assault weapon" or .50 BMG ban
No magazine capacity limits
"Shall issue" concealed weapon permits
Loaded open carry, including in a car, is legal and requires no permit, except in a few cities. Loaded open or concealed carry legal in those cities with the "shall issue" CCW
No 10-day waiting period
No 1-per-month handgun purchase limit
No gun registration, including handguns
No "safe handgun" roster
No Handgun Safety Certificate
No sales restrictions/hassles with handgun ammo (AB 962)
No DROS or FFL middleman (and fees) needed for private sales outside of gun shows.
Full auto and suppressors are legal

These videos were made in May 2010 at the annual Saddle Butte machine gun shoot in Albany, OR. Notice: full auto, short barrels, hi-cap magazines, and suppressor. All legal in Oregon. :)

t9jZmqpYc18&rel=0GS3Pb-u9F_s&rel=0

BluNorthern
01-07-2011, 2:10 PM
What's wrong with Oregon's gun laws? When was the last time you saw a gun or ammo seller say "No sales to Oregon?" ;)


There is a right to keep and bear arms for self-defense in the Oregon Constitution. We didn't have to worry about the outcome of the McDonald decision
No "assault weapon" or .50 BMG ban
No magazine capacity limits
"Shall issue" concealed weapon permits
Loaded open carry, including in a car, is legal and requires no permit, except in a few cities. Loaded open or concealed carry legal in those cities with the "shall issue" CCW
No 10-day waiting period
No 1-per-month handgun purchase limit
No gun registration, including handguns
No "safe handgun" roster
No Handgun Safety Certificate
No sales restrictions/hassles with handgun ammo (AB 962)
No DROS or FFL middleman (and fees) needed for private sales outside of gun shows.
Full auto and suppressors are legal

Thank you for the added incentive to stay on top of my classes at school. Time to hit the books!

J.D.Allen
01-07-2011, 2:12 PM
The only thing that kind of sucks about OR is the carry laws. I read somewhere that they don't have full state preemption so there are certain localities that restrict carry. Or maybe that was just unlicensed OC? Anyway I know they don't give reciprocity to any other states, but they do grant non-resident permits...Maybe thy're not so bad afterall...

Argonaut
01-07-2011, 2:34 PM
We are originally from the northwest, know all the states there well. Oregon has very high taxes in aggregate. One of the highest in the country. They hide them so most people don't realize it. I was talking to my Idaho Realtor the other day and asked why property was so much cheaper on the Oregon side because the regulations and taxes are so bad compared to Idaho. Our new property is across the river from Oregon.

Milsurp Collector
01-07-2011, 2:51 PM
The only thing that kind of sucks about OR is the carry laws. I read somewhere that they don't have full state preemption so there are certain localities that restrict carry. Or maybe that was just unlicensed OC? Anyway I know they don't give reciprocity to any other states, but they do grant non-resident permits...Maybe thy're not so bad afterall...

Concealed carry is allowed everywhere with a "shall issue" CCW permit. The only restriction is some cities (Portland, Beaverton, Tigard, Oregon City, Salem, and Independence) restrict loaded open carry if you don't have a CCW, but if you have a CCW permit you can loaded open carry in those cities. You can loaded open carry anywhere outside those cities without a permit, including loaded open carry in your car.

Argonaut
01-07-2011, 2:56 PM
In Idaho CCWs are only necessary if you are in town, a revolver is considered unloaded if the cylinder under the hammer and next one up are empty, Semi autos considered unloaded with a loaded clip installed, no waiting period on gun sales, on and on. Oregon has a large liberal voting block that has to be contended with like California. Strong self defense laws and the government is not afraid of the people like here.

Milsurp Collector
01-07-2011, 3:19 PM
We are originally from the northwest, know all the states there well. Oregon has very high taxes in aggregate. One of the highest in the country. They hide them so most people don't realize it. I was talking to my Idaho Realtor the other day and asked why property was so much cheaper on the Oregon side because the regulations and taxes are so bad compared to Idaho. Our new property is across the river from Oregon.

Oregon is one of the lowest tax states per capita according to the US Census Bureau http://www.census.gov/govs/statetax/05staxrank.html

Total state taxes per capita as of 12/14/2009 (higher rank = higher state taxes per capita)

Rank..State...state taxes per capita

1. Vermont...$3600.16
3. Wyoming...$3417.77
10. California...$2724.31

17. Washington...$2,359.99
19. Nevada...$2,347.90

21. New Mexico...$2,322.78

31. Idaho...$2,053.51
33. Montana...$2,003.79
38. Utah…$1,904.18

40. Arizona...$1,853.58
41. Oregon...$1,791.45
47. Colorado…$1,639.54
49. Texas...$1,434.16

HondaMasterTech
01-07-2011, 3:59 PM
I'd disagree on a number of grounds (which, in the interest of my marriage, I shant expound upon now), but agree that it does have some elements of a free state.

In no particular order, I would place WY, ID, CO, MO, KS in the top 5, with NH in the next tier.

Please, elaborate.

tommygunr
01-07-2011, 10:40 PM
Idaho for me :gunsmilie: I have a lot of relatives all over that state. It's kinda funny but every time I speak to family & friends up there they're always saying the California refuges are raising there property values. Just got back from spending the holidays up there I couldn't believe all the CA license plats out there .

jallen9
01-08-2011, 1:52 AM
I've talked to a few people from Utah who weren't Mormon. They all made a very interesting claim: if you get into court on any matter, and you're up against a Mormon when you're not, you are very likely screwed.

Judges will go out of their way to figure out if you're a Mormon or not. And the Judge seats are elected offices.


That's not true. I just took my old landlord to court here in Provo, UT where it's >90% mormon and the judge didn't ask a single question to either one of us that would indicate religion, and he very easily could have.

ALSystems
01-10-2011, 8:29 AM
One aspect of state freedom is whether the state has a strong castle law and a stand your ground law and immunity from civil lawsuits for justified self defense.

California has a castle law but it only seems to apply to the interior area of your home. :mad: You are not shielded from civil lawsuits which will probably be filed by the intruder when you defend yourself or your family.

For an overview of this see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Doctrine

Other states have much stronger castle laws such as AZ,NV,TX

hatidua
01-10-2011, 11:59 AM
I bet more than half of you who actually leave Cali, will be back pronto with your tail between your legs. Get on with it already, don't let the door hit your backside. Good luck

Don't put too much money on that one, it's not a bet that can be won.

CHS
01-11-2011, 10:34 AM
One aspect of state freedom is whether the state has a strong castle law and a stand your ground law and immunity from civil lawsuits for justified self defense.

California has a castle law but it only seems to apply to the interior area of your home. :mad: You are not shielded from civil lawsuits which will probably be filed by the intruder when you defend yourself or your family.

For an overview of this see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Doctrine

Other states have much stronger castle laws such as AZ,NV,TX

My problem with these "Castle" laws is that they make it ok to shoot people in the back while running away. That's not self defense, that's murder.

California does have very strong laws which protect lawful self defense.

N6ATF
01-11-2011, 10:57 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_v._Garner
Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985)[1], was a case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that under the Fourth Amendment, when a law enforcement officer is pursuing a fleeing suspect, he or she may use deadly force only to prevent escape if the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others.

I take that to mean if you see their arms swinging with the weapon still in their hands, you can be justified using deadly force.

Only if they're unarmed is it murder to shoot them with lead (not Taser).

ALSystems
01-11-2011, 5:01 PM
My problem with these "Castle" laws is that they make it ok to shoot people in the back while running away. That's not self defense, that's murder.

California does have very strong laws which protect lawful self defense.
I never said or implied shooting anyone in the back.

What California needs is to add immunity from civil lawsuits for justified self defense. Without that the self defense laws here are weak. :( Frankly I think it should be explicitly extended to your car and your home's land area as well.

thrasherfox
01-11-2011, 6:59 PM
Dont mean to thread jack....but...

Same question as OP but... Im mexican and would like not to be linched? Or discriminated against? lol

LOL..