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View Full Version : OLL AR-10 Questions


WokMaster1
07-29-2006, 10:21 PM
Just a thought that has been floating in that head of mind. How difficult is it for a manufacturer (say like CMMG, who sells directly to us in Calif.) to buy AR-10 type 80% lowers & finish them up with CMMG logo & model #, thus making them OLL. I know that ATF has to approve it & excise tax needs to be paid, etc. What other hoops do they have to jump thru?

Or having Bushmaster do a special run of their AR-10 & sell it via third parties (CWS). I am sure we can collectively buy at least 400-500 receivers just from Calguns.

Maybe I am just a dreamer but I would appreciate it if anyone with more knowledge could chime in. Bill, Xeno, Jp, leelaw, help, I see ar-10s everywhere in my dreams....help!:)

xenophobe
07-29-2006, 10:39 PM
Wait for the RRA LAR-10.

AR-10 is an Armalite Trademark. It uses their proprietary uppers, and don't expect anyone other than Vulcan to come out with one.

There may be some hope later, but from what I understand, Armalite isn't keen on selling their .308 receiver with someone else's brand on them.

bwiese
07-29-2006, 10:41 PM
The problem is, a company prob doesn't wanna make 308 lowers if they aren't making 308 rifles. There's not much profit in lowers even at CA prices, esp for more limited 308 demand and special tooling. People make their own lowers to make their own self-labelled rifles. Maybe a tiny house like SunDevil might do this, who knows. CMMG ain't, they're too busy building full rifles and doing all sortsa quality uppers - their bread & butter.

Also, there are several variant 308 AR designs around: the Armalite AR10, the Knight's SR25 (somewhat AR10 compatible, IIRC), the now-defunct Bushmaster 308 (apparently to be rebirthed as the Rock River 308), the DPMS (up & coming?) 308, the now-defunct ASA 308 (maybe AR10 compatible) and Vulcan 308 (AR10 compatible).

They're not mix & match. And I don't trust non-Armalite 308s. Armalite has the longest track record. Even Bushmaster screwed up; Armalite has moved the most 308 ARs over the longest time and is gonna have (along with Knight's/Stoner) the best info on how a semiauto 308 AR design works - esp as some Armalite AR10s and SR25s are in combat use now. Others will likely have teething pains.

Right now best bet for CA is to (unfortunately) get a Vulcan 308 lower, which appears to be AR10 compatible and put an Armalite upper on it. You'll prob have to replace the Vulcan fixed mag since it's crap. And sometimes Vulcan is hit or miss - but if you get one that works, it'll keep working.

xenophobe
07-29-2006, 11:16 PM
RRA will be a contender, if they worked out feeding issues with the FAL magazines. Armalite considered using them at one point as well as a few others, and all of them have failed. Hopefully RRA will be able to change things. If there is one company that might be able to pull it off, RRA might...

...or they might just ruin their name in the process.

C.G.
07-30-2006, 12:42 AM
Right now best bet for CA is to (unfortunately) get a Vulcan 308 lower, which appears to be AR10 compatible and put an Armalite upper on it. You'll prob have to replace the Vulcan fixed mag since it's crap. And sometimes Vulcan is hit or miss - but if you get one that works, it'll keep working.

I picked up two, both of which function flawlessly, fit AR-10 uppers just fine, but the finish is crappy. I did have to modify the mag catch slot to fit the new Armalite bolt catch. Unfortunately, Vulcan only had 500 hundred to sell and I imagine they are all sold out by now.

DougH9
07-30-2006, 7:43 AM
I can't figure out why Armalite has not "facilitated" the distribution of an Armalite compatible lower. Think of the money they would make on upper sales. Duh!

SFV_Dealer
07-30-2006, 10:26 AM
Armalite is weird - when I first contacted them in January, they said no sales to CA. Then about 3 months later they called me and said yes to the AR10 when I then asked if the "ARMALITE division" logo would be removed to avoid being a Category 2 weapons - they said no - so I said no thanks...

The only other AR10 that I got into CA are those terrible HESSE HAR25 from Vulcan Arms - 4 that came to be a nightmare and still remain so due to their fixed magazine that really doesn't work as a mag. Had to sell them to machinists who were able to "hack, grind and fit" them to Armalite uppers -

Wait for the Rock River Arms LAR10!

grammaton76
07-31-2006, 3:07 PM
What I don't get, is why Armalite isn't willing just to stamp some as "AR-100" like H&K did with the 911's (when '91' itself was banned).

No extra effort, and suddenly they're selling complete rifles again.

Oh - wait, forgot they have the pesky "(all)" in their ban...

gidddy169
07-31-2006, 4:09 PM
My HAR25 fit the Armalite parts just fine the only problem is the magwell is tight on DPMS and Stoner 25 magazines so they don't drop free. Someday I might get the magwell opened up slightly but until then it works. Oh yeah and I don't have a lost shot bolt hold open device working. Anyone get this working reliably?

C.G.
07-31-2006, 6:46 PM
My HAR25 fit the Armalite parts just fine the only problem is the magwell is tight on DPMS and Stoner 25 magazines so they don't drop free. Someday I might get the magwell opened up slightly but until then it works. Oh yeah and I don't have a lost shot bolt hold open device working. Anyone get this working reliably?

You might want to wait for the new Armalite mags, they just might do the trick. but to early to tell since they just started shipping; you will probably have to change to the Armalite bolt catch.

gidddy169
07-31-2006, 7:27 PM
Is there a new armalite bolt catch also? I have their older one in it with some of the nub ground down to fit in the hesse slot.

C.G.
07-31-2006, 8:05 PM
Is there a new armalite bolt catch also? I have their older one in it with some of the nub ground down to fit in the hesse slot.

I bought a recent Armalite LPK kit, which had it already and had to modify the HAR-25 receiver slightly (opened up the slot on one side, about 20 minutes with a Dremel)so that the Armalite mag catch would fit. At the moment I think only the twenty rounders are available. More info is here:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=62&t=283830

ketec_owner
08-01-2006, 9:34 AM
Has anyone gotten their HAR-25 refinished? There are a lot of places that do milspec finishes.

C.G.
08-01-2006, 3:32 PM
Has anyone gotten their HAR-25 refinished? There are a lot of places that do milspec finishes.

When I'll have some free time I'll probably Duracote it. At this time it is not bothering me as much as I thought it would, since it functions fine otherwise.

HUTCH 7.62
08-01-2006, 5:52 PM
I have heard that Lewis Machine Tool is sending AR-10 lowers to CA but I do not know about the quality, they also apparently come with buttstock attached

bwiese
08-01-2006, 7:56 PM
I have heard that Lewis Machine Tool is sending AR-10 lowers to CA but I do not know about the quality, they also apparently come with buttstock attached

LMT making AR10 or 308-based AR lowers? That's news.

I believe you're mistaken or this is really really fresh news. I just don't think LMT has any 308 stuff in the lineup.

Perchance you're confusing Rock River Arms with LMT??

xenophobe
08-02-2006, 9:08 AM
LMT is not making .308 anything. Right now their focus is on releasing their 6.8 SPC MRP product, and then a gas piston upgrade for the MRP. 6.8 SPC standard uppers later. I'm not even sure if they've even considered the .308 market, as it is small, proprietary and would cost a lot more for LMT to R&D than would return in profits.

WokMaster1
08-02-2006, 4:27 PM
for the life of me I can't seem to remember what is the name of the company that does custom engraving on AR lowers. Help! Do they do any 308./ar10 lowers?

grammaton76
08-02-2006, 5:44 PM
I think Tom Sawyer MFG was doing that. They're the ones who had the different logos for each of the military branches, etc.

xenophobe
08-02-2006, 6:16 PM
But it wouldn't do you any good to send a AR-10 to him, because no matter how you engrave it, it's still a banned receiver.

And he does not do custom .308s with his own brand...

WokMaster1
08-02-2006, 6:45 PM
But it wouldn't do you any good to send a AR-10 to him, because no matter how you engrave it, it's still a banned receiver.

And he does not do custom .308s with his own brand...

Bummer. :(

kantstudien
08-03-2006, 1:20 AM
Here's an idea, possibly felonious however. What if you send an "Eagle Arms AR-10 div Armalite" lower to someone to engrave and refinish and he removes the "div Armalite" section so that it only says "Eagle Arms AR-10?" This would be logged in as a "Eagle Arms AR-10" in the FFL bound book, and would be a considered an OLL. Am I thinking naughty thoughts?

C.G.
08-03-2006, 9:07 AM
Here's an idea, possibly felonious however. What if you send an "Eagle Arms AR-10 div Armalite" lower to someone to engrave and refinish and he removes the "div Armalite" section so that it only says "Eagle Arms AR-10?" This would be logged in as a "Eagle Arms AR-10" in the FFL bound book, and would be a considered an OLL. Am I thinking naughty thoughts?

Depends if the jury would see it that way or not. Personally, I wouldn't go there.

bwiese
08-03-2006, 9:17 AM
Here's an idea, possibly felonious however. What if you send an "Eagle Arms AR-10 div Armalite" lower to someone to engrave and refinish and he removes the "div Armalite" section so that it only says "Eagle Arms AR-10?" This would be logged in as a "Eagle Arms AR-10" in the FFL bound book, and would be a considered an OLL. Am I thinking naughty thoughts?

This has been gone over repeatedly. Nope, no way that'll fly. User-changed markings don't change origin.
"Make and model" would always refer to the actual mfgr's designations and not some post-purchase applied markings.

Furthermore, even removal of 'Armalite' still doesn't change the fact that it was actually manufactured by Armalite (Eagle Arms is just a div. of Armalite and appears to share same mfg FFL).

Bladewurk
08-06-2006, 6:53 PM
The DPMS is getting great reviews,are these OLL?.. available anywhere?

C.G.
08-06-2006, 7:12 PM
The DPMS is getting great reviews,are these OLL?.. available anywhere?

No, they are not OLL; from DOJ AW identification guide:

DPMS Panther - all