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View Full Version : Family member shipping a Registered "Assualt Weapon" out of California


joe_sun
07-29-2006, 8:38 AM
Howdy all. I have a good friend that escaped California to Florida. He left behind a registered weapon at his fathers house as he didn't want to deal with flying with the rifle at the time. He now wants to have this shipped out to him in Florida. The gun is registered to my friend, not his father.

Is there anything preventing his father from boxing it up and shipping it via UPS to my friends local FFL in Florida?

Thanks in advance!

Muzz
07-29-2006, 9:28 AM
I believe only an FFL with an "Assault Weapons" permit can ship the evil device. I don't know if the father can take it to them legally, or not. Probably not since trhings are so screwed up in this commie-lib paradise.

bwiese
07-29-2006, 10:31 AM
Bottom line:

the father cannot take it, touch it, move it...

the reg'd owner can transport it personally out of state himself (locked/unloaded);

the reg'd owner can ship it out of state using the services of a CA FFL dealer who also holds a CA AW dealer permit


In fact its presence with the father, without the owner around, might be questionable unless the reg'd owner is somehow still part of the household (on a rental agreement, etc. - or it's locked up in a safe w/only the reg'd owner having combination, key, access).

kennisonxgs
07-29-2006, 10:48 AM
I don't think anyone other than the registered owner can touch it.
Man, if someone pisses me off bad enough, I can toss a registered AW into their backyard and call the cops on them. Awesomeness.

dwtt
07-29-2006, 11:09 AM
is this an option? The registered owner comes back to Ca for thanksgiving or some other holiday, then drives the rifle to NV or AZ, where a FFL would send it to a FFL in Florida for him. The rifle is an assault rifle only in CA, so once it's out of the state, being transported legally, it's treated like any other rifle. I'm just postulating here and don't know for sure if this is the best way to do it.

xenophobe
07-29-2006, 12:44 PM
Next time he is here, just have him buy or use a FAA approved case and fly it back home. It's as easy as that. Just show up to the airport a half hour earlier than normal when returning it. You have to declare it, and it would need to be visually inspected, but it shouldn't be any big deal at all.

NRAhighpowershooter
07-29-2006, 2:08 PM
Also make sure the owner has his AW papers with him!!!! Just to be on the safe side!

-hanko
07-29-2006, 3:14 PM
is this an option? The registered owner comes back to Ca for thanksgiving or some other holiday, then drives the rifle to NV or AZ, where a FFL would send it to a FFL in Florida for him,

That's option 1.

Option 2, same as above, except he takes the gun to fed-ex or ups out of the PRK and ships it to himself...no issue under Federal law.

Option 3, As posted above, he flies it back himself.

-hanko

Hunter
07-29-2006, 3:47 PM
is this an option? The registered owner comes back to Ca for thanksgiving or some other holiday, then drives the rifle to NV or AZ, where a FFL would send it to a FFL in Florida for him. The rifle is an assault rifle only in CA, so once it's out of the state, being transported legally, it's treated like any other rifle. I'm just postulating here and don't know for sure if this is the best way to do it.


Best option would be to fly it home with himself. Very simple and straightforward.

If he wants to ship it, then just go out of state and ship it to himself (Fed Ex, DHL, UPS). He does not need a FFL to ship it OR a FFL dealer to receive it if he ships it to himself and if done out of state.

Now if he decides to use a FFL anyway, then he can just locate a locale AW FFL holder for shipping and again they can ship it directly to himself in FL. Saves the gas to AZ or NV.

M. Sage
07-29-2006, 3:55 PM
Fourth option? Disassemble it so it's not an AW anymore and then ship it (in separate boxes)? Workable?

Hunter
07-29-2006, 4:00 PM
Fourth option? Disassemble it so it's not an AW anymore and then ship it (in separate boxes)? Workable?

If it is a listed or named AW (cat 1), the frame will still be an AW. If it is only a AW from SB23, then ?????. Not sure but since it has been registered and not removed from the AW log, I would caution on it still being a AW.

C.G.
07-29-2006, 4:01 PM
Fourth option? Disassemble it so it's not an AW anymore and then ship it (in separate boxes)? Workable?

Which part of "registered AW" didn't you understand?:confused: That means the receiver is listed.

joe_sun
07-29-2006, 4:12 PM
Wow what a pita.. you think that all the anti gunners would pay someone to remove this from the state.

Thanks all for your replies I'm going to let him know he'll have to take it with him next time he's in town.

And yes, it's listed by name so it's not as simple as removing a pistol grip.

Thanks all!!

M. Sage
07-29-2006, 4:47 PM
Which part of "registered AW" didn't you understand?:confused: That means the receiver is listed.

I'm very sorry I'm not a lawyer. :rolleyes: Must be some of us on here are?

I guess the ?? at the end of my suggestion didn't make it obvious enough that I wasn't sure... But thanks for jumping all over me.

bonjing
07-29-2006, 5:40 PM
are there any more "AW" dealers in california?

kantstudien
07-29-2006, 5:43 PM
It is a Federal crime to ship a rifle to an individual, even yourself.

Not quite true, manufacturers ship repair/warranty guns to the original owner's front door everyday.

Mssr. Eleganté
07-29-2006, 6:22 PM
It is a Federal crime to ship a rifle to an individual, even yourself.

The FAQ on ATF's web site says it's legal to ship a firearm to yourself in another State...

(B9) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity? [Back]

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

DDs Ranch
07-29-2006, 6:45 PM
The FAQ on ATF's web site says it's legal to ship a firearm to yourself in another State...

I stand corrected on that one, that question has come up several times here and the local ATF always advised it to be shipped to a dealer

bwiese
07-29-2006, 10:57 PM
OK, let's continue:

We know Dad can't do anything (incl touch it). Frankly, it shouldn't be loose in Dad's house unless Jr. has it locked up (say, a safe) and maybe some written documentation he still 'lives' there at least part-time - otherwise Dad could be regarded as illegally possessing/acquiring it, with Jr's complicity.

So, Jr. has these options:
come back and fly it out or drive it out of CA: outside CA it's a normal rifle;
come back to CA and bring it to a local FFL w/a CA AW permit who ships it;
if it's a Cat III 'by features' gun, remove features and ship or treat as a normal rifle;


I believe shipping to onesself is indeed legal (aside from AW issues within CA). People ship their guns ahead of themselves to hotels, etc. frequently. Locked, unloaded, sealed package to not be unwrapped would add clarity.

Flying with AWs is no problem. I fly all the time with ARs. 2 years ago I flew with an AR, a FAL and two handguns. I did carry my AW paperwork, but all went smoothly at San Jose and at Boise airports. Make sure your airline is OK with gun shipments (check their policy and print it out in case counter clerk girl doesn't know anything, which is usually the case) and make sure the rifle is legal at the destination (i.e., don't fly to New Jersey, etc. w/o proper permissions ahead of time).

And legal, reg'd Cat III AWs can indeed have sufficient evil features removed and shipped as a normal rifle/receiver (this means receiver is specifically not banned by make/model combination) even despite their being reg'd as AWs.

There is a FAQ info on DOJ website indicating this, and I have been personally told by Asst Dir of DOJ (and Deputy AG) Tim Rieger at a 2005 'meet the DOJ' Golden State 2nd Amend Council meeting that this is indeed the case. I have shipped my Imbel FAL clone, a reg'd AW, to/from my NV gunsmith split in two halves, in separate boxes; the barreled upper receiver did not have a flash hider on it.

Fjold
07-30-2006, 10:38 AM
Fourth option? Disassemble it so it's not an AW anymore and then ship it (in separate boxes)? Workable?

If it's registered as an "assault weapon" in California, then the lower receiver is always an "assault weapon" in California.

bwiese
07-30-2006, 10:55 AM
If it's registered as an "assault weapon" in California, then the lower receiver is always an "assault weapon" in California.

NOT TRUE. I covered this above.

Again: if it's not a listed Robeti-Roos or Kasler AR/AK series member, then it's only banned by features. Removing the features makes it NOT an AW and treatable as a regular rifle; its registration merely makes it eligible for legal reassembly as an AW.

The DOJ has specifically said this on their AW FAQ, and in some public letters.
The former Asst Dir/Deputy AG Tim Rieger has also clearly told me this personally in a 2004 'Meet the DOJ' dinner meeting in San Jose (Golden State 2nd Amend Council) - and I believe others here have heard him tell me this at that meeting.

Again: unlisted Cat III registered AWs can be disassembled and evil features removed and then treated as normal rifles.

guimus
07-30-2006, 12:21 PM
How about buying a new AR in the new state and leaving the registered rifle in a safe in CA in a location that he 'returns home' to a few times per year so that he can still have an AR if he ever wants to return to CA?

bwiese
07-30-2006, 1:00 PM
How about buying a new AR in the new state and leaving the registered rifle in a safe in CA in a location that he 'returns home' to a few times per year so that he can still have an AR if he ever wants to return to CA?


Californians can't buy guns out of state without going thru a CA FFL.

Hunter
07-30-2006, 2:26 PM
Californians can't buy guns out of state without going thru a CA FFL.

They can if they are living in that state and leave the guns out of CA. All they need is ID from the state they are living in, but do not need to be a resident. Such as a student going to out of state college. Although "resident" status in some states is just showing up and with intent to stay for a while.

guimus
07-30-2006, 3:08 PM
on that subtopic, what would someone need to prove CA residency. I don't currently own any registered AW's, but I do have preban mags, and if they end up listing new lowers then I may end up with registered AW's. My job may take me to other states for as much as two or three years at a time, but I will always consider CA home. I don't own a home here, but do have a private PO box (mail is forwarded to wherever I'm working at the time), a local bank, and keep my CA voter status (absentee). What else can I do to convince DOJ that I'm actually a Californian if there are any issues with my owning of firearms and mags?

Hunter
07-30-2006, 4:42 PM
on that subtopic, what would someone need to prove CA residency. I don't currently own any registered AW's, but I do have preban mags, and if they end up listing new lowers then I may end up with registered AW's. My job may take me to other states for as much as two or three years at a time, but I will always consider CA home. I don't own a home here, but do have a private PO box (mail is forwarded to wherever I'm working at the time), a local bank, and keep my CA voter status (absentee). What else can I do to convince DOJ that I'm actually a Californian if there are any issues with my owning of firearms and mags?

Pay CA income tax and you will be good to go.

JALLEN
07-30-2006, 4:59 PM
The question of legal residency is fraught with difficulty. Residence ordinarily is where you are with the intent to remain indefinitely. Indicia of residence include registered to vote, D/L, bank account, job, own property, etc. None is determinative in and of itself. Being in the state more than 180 days in the last 365 is also a test.

In California, if you are in the state and working here for more than a few days (30 days, I think) you are treated as a resident, no matter what your intention is except active duty military. So, for example, military members on duty here can still use their D/L from home and license plates, but spouses may not... they get CA D/Ls, and pay state income tax on THEIR earnings, while the military folks do not pay state income tax.

Some years ago, I moved to AZ and worked while my family remained here. I had to get AZ tags and D/L on my car, pay AZ taxes that year. When I came back, I turned in the AZ tags and D/L and resumed life as a resident. But back when I left active duty and returned here, I had to turn in my Texas D/L and tags.

Now I am planning on retiring to Texas, but I will still vacation here from time to time. I'll get a Texas D/L, register to vote there, put Texas license plates on the cars, etc., pay no State income tax :) , keep as many unregistered "assault weapons" as my budget and interests determine, and have a CCW permit issued by the Sheriff without hassle, and other indicias of being a free, responsible adult, and treated like one!

M. Sage
07-30-2006, 7:18 PM
NOT TRUE. I covered this above.

Again: if it's not a listed Robeti-Roos or Kasler AR/AK series member, then it's only banned by features. Removing the features makes it NOT an AW and treatable as a regular rifle; its registration merely makes it eligible for legal reassembly as an AW.

The DOJ has specifically said this on their AW FAQ, and in some public letters.
The former Asst Dir/Deputy AG Tim Rieger has also clearly told me this personally in a 2004 'Meet the DOJ' dinner meeting in San Jose (Golden State 2nd Amend Council) - and I believe others here have heard him tell me this at that meeting.

Again: unlisted Cat III registered AWs can be disassembled and evil features removed and then treated as normal rifles.

Woot! So I was right!

<Rubs it in lawyer boy's face.>

C.G.
07-30-2006, 8:29 PM
Woot! So I was right!

<Rubs it in lawyer boy's face.>

I am not sorry to say that I am not a lawyer, but you were wrong because:

originally posted by Joe Sun
Wow what a pita.. you think that all the anti gunners would pay someone to remove this from the state.

Thanks all for your replies I'm going to let him know he'll have to take it with him next time he's in town.

And yes, it's listed by name so it's not as simple as removing a pistol grip.

Thanks all!!


This is not posted to "jump" on you, but rather to get the facts straight.

artherd
07-30-2006, 9:58 PM
Howdy all. I have a good friend that escaped California to Florida. He left behind a registered weapon at his fathers house as he didn't want to deal with flying with the rifle at the time. He now wants to have this shipped out to him in Florida. The gun is registered to my friend, not his father.

Is there anything preventing his father from boxing it up and shipping it via UPS to my friends local FFL in Florida?

Thanks in advance!

Dad cannot even touch it.

Options:
1) Son returns to CA and simply flys out with it. TSA does not generally care if you have a friggin minigun, so long as it is not loaded. (note; YOU and only you must retain the keys to the locked gun case. It should arrive unlocked so that TSA can inspect it, then YOU lock it, and keep the only key. This is federal law, TSA is not allowed to have a key.)

2) Son hires a CA attorney who takes the AW to a CA licensed AW Dealer or AW Gunsmith, and they ship it out of state.

3) Son comes home and drives it out.