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View Full Version : Is Eagle Arms AR-10 Lower Legal In California


DDs Ranch
07-28-2006, 10:36 PM
I was wondering if anybody knows for sure if the Eagle Arms AR-10 308 lowers are legal or illegal in California. They are made by Eagle Arms, and marked Eagle Arms, Div of Armalite.


DD's Ranch, LLC
3301 Townline Road
Lancaster, New York 14086
phone(716)684-7779
(716)684-3418
www.ddsranch.com

Liberty Rules
07-28-2006, 10:48 PM
If you do a search from about 6 months ago, you will find a complete discussion on this subject.

In a nutshell, one DOJ employee issued an ok letter to a local FFL due to the fact that Eagle Arms was not listed. Then a higher up DOJ employee countermanded that, claiming that the submission was misrepresented (ie, no mention of Division of Armalite--which was false; it was specifically mentioned in the submission discussions with the first DOJ employee and she stated after the brouhaha that it did not change her opinion of legality.) Thereafter, JBT I. ********** called the FFL to make sure that no receivers had been delivered, complete with threats, etcetera. End of story.

xenophobe
07-28-2006, 10:56 PM
Unless they changed the model name/number on the receiver.

As long as it says "AR-10" and "Armalite" on it, I would stay faaar far away..

DDs Ranch
07-28-2006, 10:57 PM
If you do a search from about 6 months ago, you will find a complete discussion on this subject.

In a nutshell, one DOJ employee issued an ok letter to a local FFL due to the fact that Eagle Arms was not listed. Then a higher up DOJ employee countermanded that, claiming that the submission was misrepresented (ie, no mention of Division of Armalite--which was false; it was specifically mentioned in the submission discussions with the first DOJ employee and she stated after the brouhaha that it did not change her opinion of legality.) Thereafter, JBT I. ********** called the FFL to make sure that no receivers had been delivered, complete with threats, etcetera. End of story.

Yes, that sounds like them, I've talked with the DOJ on several occasions about the legality of shipping different items to California and seemed to never get the same answer twice. It seems as if the DOJ employees all "read in" their own interpretation of the law and at the same time there is no accountability for doing so.

anotherone
07-28-2006, 10:58 PM
If you're looking to cash in on the demand for off-list .308 rifles then start taking pre-orders for RRA LAR-10 rifles. With the latest memo it's clear that these rifles will never become unlawful as long as you sell 'em gripless without evil features. As long as there is no regulatory update pinned mag would work as well.

C.G.
07-29-2006, 2:30 AM
No, unless you have money to burn for lawyer fees.

bwiese
07-29-2006, 11:33 AM
Unless they changed the model name/number on the receiver.

As long as it says "AR-10" and "Armalite" on it, I would stay faaar far away..

Yup. Especially as Eagle Arms is a division of Armalite and apparently doesn't have its own manufacturing FFL.

PonyFiveO
07-29-2006, 10:18 PM
Yes, that sounds like them, I've talked with the DOJ on several occasions about the legality of shipping different items to California and seemed to never get the same answer twice. It seems as if the DOJ employees all "read in" their own interpretation of the law and at the same time there is no accountability for doing so.

Regardless of the usless interpretations the DOJ tries to feed you, THANK YOU for taking the time to research these things. Most shops outside of California would just tell us NO without lifting a finger to see what is indeed legal to ship to California.

SFV_Dealer
07-31-2006, 11:14 AM
As Bill says the same thing I say for Armalite/Eagle AR10: stay away for California.
Get the Rock River LAR10 !

jemaddux
07-31-2006, 8:25 PM
As Bill says the same thing I say for Armalite/Eagle AR10: stay away for California.
Get the Rock River LAR10 !


The problem is after talking with RRA they say that it will not be AR10 compatible. They said the only parts that will work with it will be the RRA parts. I would rather have something I can set up the way that I want.

bwiese
07-31-2006, 9:18 PM
The problem is after talking with RRA they say that it will not be AR10 compatible. They said the only parts that will work with it will be the RRA parts. I would rather have something I can set up the way that I want.

Yeah, an AR10 is not always an AR10. Or rather, there are multiple varieties of 308 ARs.

Frankly I'd take a risk on a Vulcan 308 AR lower (and redo the fixed mag with a stock Armalite 10rd mag) - if you can still get 'em. That way you can use Armalite AR10 uppers. Apparently the biggest issue w/Vulcan AR10 compatible lowers is their crappy fixed mag.

I trust Armalite 308 stuff far more than I'd trust anyone else's 308 AR stuff, even if the Vulcan lower is crappy: it's the upper that does all the work on an AR platform anyway.

xenophobe
08-01-2006, 12:00 AM
If Rock River Arms has figured out the FAL magazine feeding issues, then issues of who to trust becomes a moot point. RRA is right up there with Armalite, Bushmaster and Stag. All four are still not in the same league as LMT, Colt or FN, or any number of specialty custom manufacturers like MSTN, BCM, Novseke, JP, etc...

C.G.
08-01-2006, 12:42 AM
Yeah, an AR10 is not always an AR10. Or rather, there are multiple varieties of 308 ARs.

Frankly I'd take a risk on a Vulcan 308 AR lower (and redo the fixed mag with a stock Armalite 10rd mag) - if you can still get 'em. That way you can use Armalite AR10 uppers. Apparently the biggest issue w/Vulcan AR10 compatible lowers is their crappy fixed mag.

I trust Armalite 308 stuff far more than I'd trust anyone else's 308 AR stuff, even if the Vulcan lower is crappy: it's the upper that does all the work on an AR platform anyway.

+1. In my case, it worked.

C.G.
08-01-2006, 12:44 AM
If Rock River Arms has figured out the FAL magazine feeding issues, then issues of who to trust becomes a moot point. RRA is right up there with Armalite, Bushmaster and Stag. All four are still not in the same league as LMT, Colt or FN, or any number of specialty custom manufacturers like MSTN, BCM, Novseke, JP, etc...


From what I read it wasn't the mag issue, but a bolt hardening issue on the Bushmaster, but then again that is only what I read.

fun2none
08-01-2006, 5:58 AM
From what I read it wasn't the mag issue, but a bolt hardening issue on the Bushmaster, but then again that is only what I read.

From what I vaguely recall, it was design issue with the bolt head itself. In order for their AR-style bolt head to cycle through a FAL magazine, the bottom locking lugs on the bolt had to be shortened, which led to reliability problems.

jemaddux
08-02-2006, 2:55 PM
Had to give myself a giggle for the day so I emailed DOJ about the Eaglearms just to see what they would say.

Dear Mr. Maddux,

According to one of our Special Agent Supervisors who also serves as
our weapons expert, the Eagle Arms AR-10 as currently manufactured still
bears Armalite markings on the lower receiver therefore it is still
prohibited in California as an AR-15 series weapon, identified by the
Department of Justice as a Category 2 assault weapon as a result of
Kasler v. Lockyer Supreme Court ruling effective August 16, 2000.

Sincerely,

Nathaniel Barrell, Analyst
State of California, Office of the Attorney General
Department of Justice, Firearms Division
(916) 227-0163
(916) 227-3700 fax

Hint for the Eaglearms, REMOVE the words "DIVISION OF ARMALITE" and they can then be sold here.

Just my opinion here:D

grammaton76
08-02-2006, 3:50 PM
They may perhaps be required to have that marking on there if they're working under Armalite's manufacturing license.

PanzerAce
08-02-2006, 4:00 PM
They may perhaps be required to have that marking on there if they're working under Armalite's manufacturing license.

I wouldnt think so. After all, a FFL only relates to a company/person, not to what is printed on the side, right? after all, DCI Does not (IIRC) put DCI on their AK receivers, but NDS....

handbook
08-02-2006, 4:03 PM
the Armalite AR-10(T) receiver is not listed. extra "(T)" rollmark is quite different than the regular AR-10 receivers.

thmpr
08-02-2006, 4:41 PM
Armalite
AR 10 (all)
M15 (all)
Golden Eagle

xenophobe
08-02-2006, 5:20 PM
From what I read it wasn't the mag issue, but a bolt hardening issue on the Bushmaster, but then again that is only what I read.

I'm not sure about Bushmaster, but this is what Armalite officially has to say about fal magazines:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=27&t=149407