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View Full Version : AK trainer question.


USMC_2651_E5
07-28-2006, 6:17 PM
Sorry if this has been covered already. Did a search and found stuff about AR's but not AK's.

Does anyone know if it is legal to own an AK trainer? Im talking about the ones made in the same factories as regular 7.62 AK-47s, but chambered and barreled for 22lr (and not the cheap AK look alikes). I understand that the assault weapons laws only effect centerfire rifles and shouldn't apply to the trainer rifles.

If they are ok to have, where can I get one?

Guinness
07-30-2006, 10:08 PM
I asked this question awhile back, and while there was good discussion on why it should be legal in CA, all the vendors I talked with refused due to it still being classified as a "AK47" on the list regardless of centerfire - 22 or trainer....

I thought it would be cool also to aquire... Centerfire Systems was selling them fairly cheap too..

My 2 cents..

VeryCoolCat
07-30-2006, 10:34 PM
I asked this question awhile back, and while there was good discussion on why it should be legal in CA, all the vendors I talked with refused due to it still being classified as a "AK47" on the list regardless of centerfire - 22 or trainer....

I thought it would be cool also to aquire... Centerfire Systems was selling them fairly cheap too..

My 2 cents..

Although thats your opinion and the opinion of the local shop.

Harriot vs Kings County said you cannot ban a weapon by saying AK or AR thus the off list phenomenon though some shops refuse to deal with off list weaponry just because its a "loop hole" technically.

SB23 applies only to CENTERFIRE rifles, rimfire weaponry is exempt. (sb23 is the pistol grip/telescopic stock with detachable mag means assault weapon)

AK22s, Romainian AK trainers, and WASR-22s are exempt from bans as they are rimfire and are not specifically listed.

Practically all weapons (except full auto/short barrel rifles) that are rimfire (i.e. 22lr 17hmr 17hm2 22wmr) can be owned in the state of california. There aren't any specific bans on them. Handguns are in a class of their own though.

kantstudien
07-31-2006, 12:16 AM
For whatever its worth (not much), my dealer called DOJ and was told that the AK trainers that use the actual AK receiver (not the Armscorp POS) are "banned assault weapons." :rolleyes:

leelaw
07-31-2006, 1:43 AM
I've been told a variety of things on this by the DOJ tards.

1. It is an AK - it's illegal.

2. It's capable of being converted to centerfire - it's illegal.

3. It's the time of the month, so whatever you're going to ask me about is illegal.

According to the LAW, it is an unlisted AK receiver, chambered in rimfire only, with specialty rimfire-ony magazines capped at 10 rounds, chambered and barreled in .22lr, with a special .22rimfire bolt.

The rifle is legal, but good luck finding a place that will sell it to CA. Southern Ohio Guns and Centerfire Systems are the only places I've seen regularily selling them (about $250) but neither will ship to CA, even to a dealer with an AW permit. You would be best suited finding an FFL that will transfer it for you, then expect to pay $250 - $325 for one from Gunbroker or similar.

insin
07-31-2006, 1:59 AM
I saw a few a few months back at SJGE. Havent seen them in a while though. Maybe they even stoped carrying them.

leelaw
07-31-2006, 2:07 AM
I saw a few a few months back at SJGE. Havent seen them in a while though. Maybe they even stoped carrying them.

If I remember correctly.. their supplier received one of those BS threatening calls from the DOJ and they stopped shipping them here.

xenophobe
07-31-2006, 2:22 AM
If I remember correctly.. their supplier received one of those BS threatening calls from the DOJ and they stopped shipping them here.

Pretty much. I got one order in after talking to the owner... the next shipment was refused. I'll give him another call tomorrow and see if I can get some more.

Either that, or I may have to have someone broker a few.

USMC_2651_E5
07-31-2006, 4:13 AM
Thanks for all the replys. I'm hoping that I can get one of the FFL's that are willing to transfer OLLs to transfer one of the trainers. From what I gathered, each of the trainers have different nomenclatures than their AK-47 siblings; ie. AKT-22, WASR-22, etc. This and the fact that DOJ consider pinning and riveting permanent (barrel to the receiver) should be a good arguement to the ease of conversion. I'll keep you posted if I can get one transfered.

xenophobe
07-31-2006, 10:50 AM
Not that I'm trying to advertise or anything, but there's one in the store right now....

grammaton76
07-31-2006, 2:57 PM
Could always bounce it through one of the out-of-state friendly FFL's for like $30 more per gun...

USMC_2651_E5
07-31-2006, 3:58 PM
Update: Called my FFL today to see if he would transfer one. He said ask DOJ.

Called DOJ and spoke to a rep that was very polite and willing to help, but didnt seem to have a complete grasp of the subject matter. I explained that I wanted to purchase a rimfire AK trainer rifle and he told me that it was a no go because AKs were listed. I explained that the model I was interested in was not listed (WASR-22) and he proceeded to agree that it would be ok, as long as it didnt have a removable mag or thumbhole stock. I asked for the section that prohibited these features and after a short hold, returned and provided me with 12276.1 CPC. I tactfully got him to read the section and he paused when he got to "centerfire." Shortly thereafter, he somewhat agreed that it would be ok, but wanted to have someone that works with assault weapons call me back and make a decision.

We'll see what happens.

The Soup Nazi
07-31-2006, 4:05 PM
If this guy whose supposed to work in this department can't fully grasp this, how is the normal citizen supposed to? I thought laws were about making sure that people didn't hurt each other, not arrest people based on a technicality.

JPglee1
07-31-2006, 4:07 PM
not arrest people based on a technicality.

Thats how they make money in a legal system dependent on privately run penal facilities.

More people = more funding = more profit = better.



J

Ford8N
07-31-2006, 8:16 PM
If this guy whose supposed to work in this department can't fully grasp this, how is the normal citizen supposed to? I thought laws were about making sure that people didn't hurt each other, not arrest people based on a technicality.

You bring up a very good point. How come the people answering the phones at the DOJ don't know the AW law they answer the phones for? Is it on purpose or ignorance?

kantstudien
07-31-2006, 10:35 PM
Let me guess, the guy on the phone is going to say "All AR and AK series rifles are banned." :rolleyes:

leelaw
07-31-2006, 11:09 PM
Let me guess, the guy on the phone is going to say "All AR and AK series rifles are banned." :rolleyes:

That's the most popular answer I've gotten. See previous posts.

Rascal
08-01-2006, 9:49 PM
Once again, what you really want is a letter from a higher up person stating that the 22LR inquestion is not considered a "AW".
Don't do this over the phone.

Guinness
08-02-2006, 10:13 AM
Although thats your opinion and the opinion of the local shop.

Harriot vs Kings County said you cannot ban a weapon by saying AK or AR thus the off list phenomenon though some shops refuse to deal with off list weaponry just because its a "loop hole" technically.

SB23 applies only to CENTERFIRE rifles, rimfire weaponry is exempt. (sb23 is the pistol grip/telescopic stock with detachable mag means assault weapon)

AK22s, Romainian AK trainers, and WASR-22s are exempt from bans as they are rimfire and are not specifically listed.

Practically all weapons (except full auto/short barrel rifles) that are rimfire (i.e. 22lr 17hmr 17hm2 22wmr) can be owned in the state of california. There aren't any specific bans on them. Handguns are in a class of their own though.

I completly agree - the problem I had was finding someone to transfer it into the State.. Since the OLL influx, there are more options not on getting people to ship the trainers in to the State...

TheMan
08-02-2006, 11:52 AM
Shortly thereafter, he somewhat agreed that it would be ok, but wanted to have someone that works with assault weapons call me back and make a decision.

We'll see what happens.

I've been told by the DOJ on a few occasions that they would call me back after researching my question. But silly me, I forgot to ask them which year they were planning on returning the call.

Go ahead and type it all up, and send the question in to the DOJ in the form of a letter. Make sure you are complete and cover all their questions. They may not answer. But if they do, it will at least be something you can take to the FFL to show him. Kinda hard to go back to the FFL, and just tell him that its OK to transfer because the DOJ agent gave you a verbal OK. Then you have to go through the whole thing again, with another agent, on the phone, so the FFL can hear it.

ts
08-05-2006, 3:52 PM
someone should get a letter and post it here.

Beatone
08-05-2006, 4:01 PM
They do look nice.

USMC_2651_E5
08-05-2006, 4:19 PM
Still no call back. I guess that I will try to type up a letter and mail it. Thanks for all the info.

xenophobe
08-05-2006, 6:06 PM
Once again, what you really want is a letter from a higher up person stating that the 22LR inquestion is not considered a "AW".
Don't do this over the phone.

A number of us here HAVE tried to get a letter, but the DOJ will not give one out that can be interpreted favorably...

My long responce from DOJ basically avoided answering EVERY question I asked, and said "AR and AK series firearms are banned". :rolleyes:

leelaw
08-05-2006, 9:37 PM
I wonder if this guy will ship here. They do look nice.
http://www.riverviewsales.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=RI1171N&Category_Code=RIF-Other

WASR10? Those don't look lke .22lr magazines, so I don't think they're what this discussion is about..

Beatone
08-06-2006, 12:17 PM
WASR10? Those don't look lke .22lr magazines, so I don't think they're what this discussion is about..
Your correct, wrong post,

VeryCoolCat
08-06-2006, 12:47 PM
A WASR-10 is not a WASR-22.

WASR-10 is an AK47 that was made to bypass the 1994 ban as it wasn't able to take hi-cap magazines (without slight modifications)

Wasr-22 comes usually with the dragonov style stock. and is a rimfire.