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View Full Version : Need Help ID'ing a Few Guns


smokinstang65
12-26-2010, 9:32 PM
Greetings folks,

I joined this group in order to get good info on firearms and to hopefully get some oldies identified.

Let the fun begin. The first is a black powder rifle that I couldn't find any markings on. It also appears to have been spray painted black at some point. The second rifle is a Type99 Arisaka so I'm just looking for any information you folks might have on those types. I've looked around a little and haven't really found parts available for them and mine's a lil sticky in the bolt. The thirds is a double barrel shotgun and smaller than a 12 gauge (I couldn't get a 12 gauge round in it and that was the only size shotgun round I had to check size) and it likewise had no markings on it. The final one is a shotgun (I think) with a weird trap door/hammer style set up. If I remember correctly the barrel had something like Poland or Belgium stamped on it but I'm not sure. I can't provide any better pictures myself as they are not with me but about 400 miles away and the parents are only so good at using a camera.

If you need more pictures, they are available here:

http://picasaweb.google.com/108835759826276445775/Guns#


http://lh5.ggpht.com/_j5M053YUb94/TRgu1321jKI/AAAAAAAABy0/qLRs5ClI8Bk/s640/100_1314.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_j5M053YUb94/TRgu4iSg-AI/AAAAAAAABzE/xJbYhPDVdS8/s640/100_1318.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_j5M053YUb94/TRgu5Z1nHhI/AAAAAAAABzI/cMSL5PrqVJ4/s640/100_1319.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_j5M053YUb94/TRgu8caHheI/AAAAAAAABzc/9jTMooLMkEo/s640/100_1323.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_j5M053YUb94/TRgvAheIKFI/AAAAAAAABz0/_NPDsNfxvZY/s640/100_1329.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_j5M053YUb94/TRgvBQRQ2jI/AAAAAAAABz4/IjQRLnmbjAU/s640/100_1330.JPG

Rogerbutthead
12-26-2010, 11:18 PM
The fourth one appears to be some sort of Snider like conversion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snider-Enfield

edit - it appears to be a French conversion - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=61296 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabati%C3%A8re_rifle

A Nagoya Series 4 rifle? - Some info on Type 99 Arisakas - http://www.gunboards.com/sites/banzai/RifPrimer/Mod99/Intro/Intro.htm#Top_of_Intro http://www.gunboards.com/sites/banzai/RifPrimer/RifleInt.htm#Top_of_Primer

One source of parts for Arisaka's is Numrich - http://gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Search.aspx?filter=type+99+arisaka

The other two - no clue.

smokinstang65
12-27-2010, 6:40 AM
That is great info on the trap door style breech. I didn't have a clue for where to begin eve looking on it. Thanks also for the link to the Arisaka parts. I would love to get mine shooting again.

Milsurp Collector
12-27-2010, 7:31 AM
The second rifle is a Type99 Arisaka so I'm just looking for any information you folks might have on those types. I've looked around a little and haven't really found parts available for them and mine's a lil sticky in the bolt.

You probably don't need any parts. The bolt probably just needs to be disassembled http://www.surplusrifle.com/arisaka/boltdisassembly/index.asp soaked in Kroil http://www.kanolabs.com/ cleaned up with bronze wool http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=7391/Product/BRONZE_WOOL and then lubricated with Eeezox http://www.eezox.com/gun-care.html or CLP.

mls343
12-27-2010, 7:56 AM
Your first rifle looks like a Hall Carbine. I really cannot tell if it was converted from a long rifle by just the one picture. BTW - Hall's are pretty rare, so don't discount that rifle just yet.

Also, back in the old days, most new rifles from the factory were browned and not shiny, so this could be even better news for you. Might want to double check if it is really spray paint.

Again, I can't really tell with just the one picture, but if you do have a Hall, then you have a very interesting peice of US History.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/content/the-hall-carbine

smokinstang65
12-27-2010, 11:22 AM
Holy crap. That hall looks like mine. Except the hammer is busted off on mine. I will have to get back home and look at mine closer. Unfortunately it does appear someone tried to wrench on it before as some of the screws look a bit stripped. None the less. I wasn't aware of the history of some of these.

mls343
12-27-2010, 11:35 AM
If it is a Hall, then yu have a very interesting rifle. They are considered to be a secondary marshall arm originally issued at the time of the Mexican war. The long rifles typically come as a flintlock where as the carbines I have seen are normally precussion. Interesting side note, but you can take the action out of the rifle as an intact unit, and some would use this as a type of pistol PDW for off duty stuff.

Personally, I really like these weapons as they have a real flair to them, workmanship is pretty cool, and the time frame that they were initially issued is pretty interesting.

Finally, as far as getting replacement (new manufacturer) parts, you might want to check out Dixie Gun Works - http://www.dixiegunworks.com/default.php?cPath=118

Not sure if they have anything, but it would be a place to start...

smokinstang65
12-27-2010, 11:59 AM
I had no idea I had such ... aged firearms. The trap door one seems to work descent enough (at least the trigger and hammer do, the pin needs some work). That Hall will be interesting to fiddle with. I'm pretty sure it's been painted now that I see the entire top opens up. The one I have just looked like a black krinkle spray painty/cast irony finish.

mls343
12-27-2010, 12:42 PM
As for your last weapon, I'm fairly confident that it is a European Conversion rifle (or shotgun) that is using the "Snider Conversion." The Snider conversion was mostly used by the Brits, but the French (See Tabatiere or Zulu conversions) as well as the USA messed around with these (note: The US Government eventually went with the Allin conversion right after the Civil War. The basis of this conversion evenutally became the "Trap Door" Springfield) conversions in the mid to late 1800's. My bet would be French...

Again, I'm not really sure nor am I an expert, but this looks like one of the Snider conversions (there are a few different versions as well...) that I have seen before.

BTW - From my take, you have some interesting stuff there and I would recommend doing some additional research. These are, from what I can see from the pictures, more than just a garage sales throw away...

http://www.militaryrifles.com/France/Tabatier.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snider-Enfield



Good luck!

smokinstang65
12-27-2010, 8:56 PM
Thanks for the information. I think that has identified pretty much 3 out o the 4. That double barrel shotgun is all that's left.

smokinstang65
12-27-2010, 8:59 PM
Bear in mind folks there are more pics of the firearms here:

http://picasaweb.google.com/108835759826276445775/Guns#

I just didn't post them all here what with the 6 pic limit.

echo1
12-27-2010, 9:03 PM
The Arisaka could be a type 38 in 6.5.PAX

Rogerbutthead
12-27-2010, 9:46 PM
Believe you are wrong echo1.

Aside from it saying "9 9 type" in Japanese on it, it would be the first Type 38 I've seen with one vent hole instead of two.

http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/japanese_markings.html
http://www.surplusrifle.com/arisaka/index.asp

Noonanda
12-28-2010, 6:04 AM
The Arisaka could be a type 38 in 6.5.PAX

The markings are of a type 99. But (and they are uber rare made of unobtanium) little known fact the Japanese did make some preproduction type 38's in 7.7x58 to test the new round, then adopted the type 99 to fire it. I was just reading about it on gunboards a few days ago:)

smokinstang65
12-28-2010, 3:45 PM
Any links to articles on that? Sounds pretty interesting.