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gratefuldog
12-26-2010, 4:37 PM
The Appleseed "preparation" page suggests zeroing one's rifle as follows:

"You should function-test your rifle and, if possible, have it zeroed for 200 yards; but if you don't or can't, adjust your sights so your group prints 3" above point of aim at 100 yds... Doing so will leave you properly sighted for the 25m AQT."

Does this seem contradictory to anyone else? Why not zero for 25m? Is there some fundamental zeroing rule I don't know about?:confused:


(BTW, I'm asking in this part of the forum b/c the rifle in question is a .22 Marlin 795.)

1lostinspace
12-26-2010, 4:45 PM
The Appleseed "preparation" page suggests zeroing one's rifle as follows:

"You should function-test your rifle and, if possible, have it zeroed for 200 yards; but if you don't or can't, adjust your sights so your group prints 3" above point of aim at 100 yds... Doing so will leave you properly sighted for the 25m AQT."

Does this seem contradictory to anyone else? Why not zero for 25m? Is there some fundamental zeroing rule I don't know about?:confused:


(BTW, I'm asking in this part of the forum b/c the rifle in question is a .22 Marlin 795.)

for a 22LR I would 0 in at 50 yards!

You use 25 meters for 0 in a military rifle M16/AR 15 at 300 meter or 0 mark depending on barrel size.

Izzy43
12-26-2010, 5:31 PM
The Appleseed "preparation" page suggests zeroing one's rifle as follows:

"You should function-test your rifle and, if possible, have it zeroed for 200 yards; but if you don't or can't, adjust your sights so your group prints 3" above point of aim at 100 yds... Doing so will leave you properly sighted for the 25m AQT."

Does this seem contradictory to anyone else? Why not zero for 25m? Is there some fundamental zeroing rule I don't know about?:confused:


(BTW, I'm asking in this part of the forum b/c the rifle in question is a .22 Marlin 795.)

Sounds a little strange to me. A .22 bullet drops a lot more than 3" from 100yds to 200yds. I am not at all familiar with what the shooting requirements are for an Appleseed so bear that in mind. Normally a .22 that is zeroed at 25yds is on zero again around 70-75yds. I agree that a good zero for .22 is at 50 yds for hunting purposes. For targets it can vary depending on what you are doing. A .22 zeroed at 50yds will shoot more or less 6" low @ 100yds depending on the ammo (HV or SV). Good luck.

jshoebot
12-26-2010, 5:54 PM
Zero your .22 at 25 yards. If you were using a .308 or a .223, a 300 yard zero would have you zeroed from 0-300 yards as long as you had your rear sight set up correctly. On an AR you'd zero using the small aperture at 300 (or 25 yards), then when you flipped the small aperture down and used the large aperture, you'd be okay from 0-200 yards.

jshoebot
12-26-2010, 5:58 PM
Here's a link: http://ar15zeroing.com/

See the Marine Corps zeroing method, that's what I'm referring to in my previous post.

scootle
12-26-2010, 6:38 PM
Zero your .22 at 25 yards. If you were using a .308 or a .223, a 300 yard zero would have you zeroed from 0-300 yards as long as you had your rear sight set up correctly. On an AR you'd zero using the small aperture at 300 (or 25 yards), then when you flipped the small aperture down and used the large aperture, you'd be okay from 0-200 yards.

This.

The instructions for zero'ing at 1" over at 100yds, etc. is for centerfire rifles, mostly, which might not be typically shot at the 25yd range.

For your .22LR rifle, just zero directly at 25yds for the Appleseed AQT and call it good. As a side effect, by zero'ing at 25yds, the .22LR will trajectory again cross "zero" at ~75yds or so, depending on ammo, and deviate no more than ~1.5" high from 25-75yds or so. This is known as the effective PBR, or point-blank range for the .22LR if you plan to do any varmint hunting or similar.

Good luck! I just DROS'ed a Marlin 795 at Big5 tonight so I can build up a little LTR for Appleseed too later this year. ;)

gratefuldog
12-26-2010, 7:38 PM
Got it! Thanks guys... y'all are the best!

pennys dad
12-26-2010, 10:32 PM
Hold up!

Download the 25 yard drill and print it. Print a bunch of copies. Go to the range and fill your target board with them and place them out at the 25 yard line (25 to 27 full stride steps). Then sight in.

jumpthestack
12-28-2010, 3:26 AM
At the Appleseed shoot I went to, we shot at 25 yards and were trying to hit point of aim = point of impact. So there would be no point in zeroing at anything other than 25.

pennys dad
12-28-2010, 6:08 AM
At the Appleseed shoot I went to, we shot at 25 yards and were trying to hit point of aim = point of impact. So there would be no point in zeroing at anything other than 25.

did you get riflemen?

foesgth
12-28-2010, 8:47 AM
Appleseed's founder, Fred, wrote a paper called "Fred's Guide to Becoming a Rifleman". Parts are available on the web, but one can buy it from Fred's M14 stocks. It is the basis for Appleseed training. In it he brings up setting up a rifle for battlefield zero. Remember this all started on the concept of a Rifleman should be able to pick up a rack grade military rifle with ball ammo and hit a target @ 500 yards. If you look at the trajectory of a 30 cal round (30-06 or 7.62x51) you would see that it crossed the line of sight twice in its path. Remember your sights are on top of the barrel not in line with the barrel. Those two crossings, on a rifle with a 200 yard zero, are at 25 and 200 yards. So a rifle zeroed at 200 yards is zeroed at 25. With a rimfire round just zero at 25 yards/meters. The current Appleseed course of fire is a 25 meter course. This allows any rifle to be used. One will shoot around 400 rounds so a .22 is the best to use to conserve money. After you shoot rifleman with a .22 then try it with your centerfire rifle. I have shot the AQT with M1 and .303 Enfield. I am currently working on getting it done with a 1903. If you folks want to shoot the AQT at know distance (as in 500 yards) look into Appleseed's week long Rifleman's Boot Camp. And for those of you who don't need to go to Appleseed. Place a quarter on a piece of paper, draw a line around the quarter, get one of your kid's caryons and fill in the hole (your choice of color). Take this target (this is a 4 MOA target @ 25 yards and your rifle is sub MOA right?)to the range next time you go and hang it up at 25 yards/meters. Get your trusty shooting iron out and from a field position (no bench , no bipod, no sandbags) put 10 rounds in the circle. Take a picture and post it for us to see because you are a Rifleman! Can't do it?...see you at the next Appleseed!

jumpthestack
12-29-2010, 3:12 AM
did you get riflemen?

My best score was 205 which barely missed the cut off. Though, my average score was more like 170-180, so I need to work on some things and maybe try again.

nukechaser
12-29-2010, 7:27 AM
The Appleseed "preparation" page suggests zeroing one's rifle as follows:

"You should function-test your rifle and, if possible, have it zeroed for 200 yards; but if you don't or can't, adjust your sights so your group prints 3" above point of aim at 100 yds... Doing so will leave you properly sighted for the 25m AQT."

Does this seem contradictory to anyone else? Why not zero for 25m? Is there some fundamental zeroing rule I don't know about?:confused:


(BTW, I'm asking in this part of the forum b/c the rifle in question is a .22 Marlin 795.)

If the location hosting your Appleseed is using "known distance" targets at actual 100, 200, 300 and 400 yards, then the "zero your rifle at 200 yards" applies.

If your Appleseed is using only a 25 yard distance (with targets that are smaller and smaller to represent longer distances), then zero your rifle at 25 yards.

If using a scope, zero for "center of target", if using iron sights (like a "Tech Sight") zero using a "six o'clock hold", also known as "pumpkin on a post". Don't worry too much about a perfect zeroing, as you will be taught "inches, minutes, clicks" on the first day of the Appleseed, where you'll learn how to zero your rifle and the importance of understanding what "minutes of angle" (MOA) means and how to adjust your sights according to your particular set up.

A two-day Appleseed could be labelled a "fundamentals" event, as compared to a Rifleman's Boot Camp, which is also offered by Project Appleseed. The RBC is usually held using a "known-distance" range, where you'll learn zeroing at 25/300, 50/200, etc. (depending on your rifle) as well as "come-ups" and dope for your rifle, caliber, etc.

Hope this helps!

By the way, gratefuldog, where are you planning to attend the Appleseed?

Francis Marion
12-29-2010, 11:21 AM
The Appleseed "preparation" page suggests zeroing one's rifle as follows:

"You should function-test your rifle and, if possible, have it zeroed for 200 yards; but if you don't or can't, adjust your sights so your group prints 3" above point of aim at 100 yds... Doing so will leave you properly sighted for the 25m AQT."

Does this seem contradictory to anyone else? Why not zero for 25m? Is there some fundamental zeroing rule I don't know about?:confused:


(BTW, I'm asking in this part of the forum b/c the rifle in question is a .22 Marlin 795.)

The 25m/200m zeroing method you cite applies to centerfire rifles shooting scaled 25m targets. As has been said, trajectories of rounds cross the line of sight at two points- first on the way to the target (25 meters or so) and again as they strike the target (200 to 300 meters or so).

For your Marlin 795, however, just do one of the following at 25yds or meters:

Either
1) Iron sights- Sight in such that point of impact is 1/2 inch (2 MOA) above point of aim.

or
2) Scope or optic- sight in such that point of impact = point of aim.

Also, make sure you have 1 1/4 inch sling swivels (not 1 inch!) so you can use a GI loop sling.

If you plan to use the original Marlin iron sights, you may find that they are ill suited for target work. They can be replaced and sighting greatly improved by Tech Sights, Williams sights, or by a rimfire scope or optic.

Good on you for attending- please share what you learn with friends and family.

gratefuldog
12-29-2010, 8:07 PM
I had it dialed in from a (homemade) bench rest, but my scope rings walked a little bit... so I need to do it again...
I'm planning on attending Appleseed in Piru 8-9 January... "info" says:
"Misc: It is 25 meter and 500 yard shooting"

mycrstuff
12-29-2010, 8:49 PM
The Appleseed targets are are 25 meters (82 ft) not 25 yards (75 ft). I would take your rifle to the range and set your target out at 82 ft. Then zero. I know the 7 ft difference is not that big but the smallest AQT targets are only about an inch big. An 1/8-1/4 inch difference in the zero will effect your score on those little targets. The 400 yd AQTs (the smallest) count double so that they can make or break your chance of making rifleman.