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View Full Version : Shipping and Intra -Family Transfer of a Revolver


smokinstang65
12-24-2010, 1:42 PM
I tried doing a search on here for shipping of a pistol and as you can imagine, a metric buttload of posts showed up with the words "shipping", "pistol", "of" and "a" in it and none of them had anything to do with the question at hand.

My dad has a revolver he's not too hot to trot on. He wants to send it to me to see if I like it and if so, then he wants to give it to me. NOW, the questions:

1) How does one go about shipping a revolver? I looked on some of the California firearms websites and it only mentioned shipping from FFL to FFL for sales. Would he have to send it to an FFL in my area or what?

2) In the case I do want to keep it; I know I need to fill out an FD 4544A for the transfer of it from my father to myself and pay a $19 fee to be submitted within 30 days of acquisition of the firearm. It is also my understanding that for him to give it to me I have to have an HSC but since I'm active duty military, I don't have to have the HSC. How do I prove that in the transaction? I don't see a section on the form for an HSC certificate number or anything?

Forgive me if this is in the wrong forum. I wasn't sure whether here or the 2nd Amendment's forum would be the proper place to ask. Thanks again for any help you all can provide.

jtmkinsd
12-24-2010, 2:17 PM
Is Dad a CA resident? If so just go and get the gun from him.

If it's being shipped, it has to go to an FFL along with a legible copy of Dad's ID, you pay full price for transfer and DROS, you wait your ten days and then pick up your gun. If it's a rostered gun, no other paperwork is needed from Dad, if not on roster, Dad needs to include a note saying he's gifting it to you (his son), make, model, and serial number of the gun.

Don't worry about the HSC requirement...if you have to go through an FFL, they'll make a copy of your military ID to prove exemption.

ke6guj
12-24-2010, 2:46 PM
If dad is a CA-resident, but lives on the other side of hte state, it can be shipped directly to you, without needing to use an FFL.

But if he isnt a CA-resident, then it MUST go through a CA FFL.

smokinstang65
12-24-2010, 3:02 PM
Thank you you guys. I can't believe that I forgot to mention that my Dad IS a California resident. He is in Southern California while I'm in the Bay Area.

jtmkinsd
12-24-2010, 3:05 PM
Thank you you guys. I can't believe that I forgot to mention that my Dad IS a California resident. He is in Southern California while I'm in the Bay Area.

It happens...I just assume they're out of State when people say "shipping"...so Dad can just send it to you. :D

Can't buy anything here
12-24-2010, 3:13 PM
If dad is a CA-resident, but lives on the other side of hte state, it can be shipped directly to you, without needing to use an FFL.

But if he isnt a CA-resident, then it MUST go through a CA FFL.

I'm pretty sure a private person cannot ship a gun to another private person in Cali. He has to ship it to an FFl or you both meet at the FFL for a PPT, even if it is a family member.

jtmkinsd
12-24-2010, 3:25 PM
I'm pretty sure a private person cannot ship a gun to another private person in Cali. He has to ship it to an FFl or you both meet at the FFL for a PPT, even if it is a family member.

Intrafamilial transfers inside CA are exempt from using an FFL...no PPT is required. Simply hand the gun over and, in the case of a handgun, fill out the form and mail with check for $19. As long as the recipient has an HSC card in the case of a handgun as well.

As for shipping, Federal law says a non-licensee may not ship to another non-licensee interstate. I have to look to find the answer inside CA...but, lets say Dad is going to visit his son...it is legal to ship a firearm to one's self in care of another person. So before the visit, Dad ships the gun to his son...and decides to leave it with his son...perfectly legit :cool:

ke6guj
12-24-2010, 3:29 PM
I'm pretty sure a private person cannot ship a gun to another private person in Cali. He has to ship it to an FFl or you both meet at the FFL for a PPT, even if it is a family member.

there is no state or federal law that would require it be shipped to an FFL in this case.

Can't buy anything here
12-24-2010, 3:41 PM
I learned something new I guess....:)

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transferring_Firearms_Among_Some_Family_Members#Ha nd_guns_need_paper_and_fee

smokinstang65
12-24-2010, 4:04 PM
Dang. I must not have searched enough. I wasn't aware there was a CGF wiki. I really do appreciate the information. I want to keep things as simple as possible for the swap, but likewise I want to make sure the shipping is done completely legally.
I guess on the topic of shipping handguns ... who is typically the best for that? USPS, UPS or Fed Ex?

Can't buy anything here
12-24-2010, 4:06 PM
I would go with Fed Ex for handguns....with the Post office last...

jtmkinsd
12-24-2010, 5:15 PM
I would go with Fed Ex for handguns....with the Post office last...

A non-licensee cannot use USPS to ship a handgun. Only FFLs can use the postal service to ship a handgun. Individuals are only left with UPS and FedEx...and it has to go next day air.

smokinstang65
12-27-2010, 12:39 PM
So I just got off the phone with CA Department of Justice - Firearms. (Got clued into the site after seeing them mentioned a lot here) The gal I spoke to on the phone stated that I either have to meet face to face to physically take possession of the revolver or I have to go through an FFL to have it shipped up to me and then I have to go through the DROS and all that BS. She said that it was illegal per Federal Law to ship the revolver from private party to private party even though it is Father to Son. Any ideas on that?

ke6guj
12-27-2010, 12:44 PM
did you ask her what the USC or CFR section was that made it illegal? Because, AFAIK, as long as the shipment does not cross state lines, federal law regarding unlicensed transfers does not matter in this case.

paul0660
12-27-2010, 12:59 PM
At very least, since you are known to each other, he can loan it to you for up to 30 days, and it does not have to be a face to face transfer. If, during that time, he decides to give it to you and you file the $19 paperwork on it, the deal is done. The transfer does not have to be done through an FFL, and the shipping does not have to be done to an FFL.

Unfortunately, calling the DOJ is frequently unhelpful, if entertaining. The only way to deal with them, imo, is to already have an opinion, have the penal code open in front of you, call them, convince them to open their copy (pretty sure it's under the donut box), have them follow along, and see if they can confirm your opinion, or refute it with something in black and white.

ke6guj
12-27-2010, 1:02 PM
here is the CFR on shipping firearms,

(a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped: Provided, That any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of that trip without violating any provision of this part.

(b) No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container indicating that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

(c) No common or contract carrier shall transport or deliver in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm or ammunition with knowledge or reasonable cause to believe that the shipment, transportation, or receipt thereof would be in violation of any provision of this part: Provided, however, That the provisions of this paragraph shall not apply in respect to the transportation of firearms or ammunition in in-bond shipment under Customs laws and regulations.

(d) No common or contract carrier shall knowingly deliver in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm without obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt from the recipient of the package or other container in which there is a firearm: Provided, That this paragraph shall not apply with respect to the return of a firearm to a passenger who places firearms in the carrier's custody for the duration of the trip.

[33 FR 18555, Dec. 14, 1968. Redesignated at 40 FR 16385, Apr. 15, 1975, and amended by T.D. ATF–354, 59 FR 7112, Feb. 14, 1994; T.D. ATF–361, 60 FR 10786, Feb. 27, 1995]
key word in that regulation is "in inTERstate commerce", a shipment between 2 CA-residents would be inTRAstate commerce, and not therefore, that law does not apply.

jtmkinsd
12-27-2010, 1:33 PM
So I just got off the phone with CA Department of Justice - Firearms. (Got clued into the site after seeing them mentioned a lot here) The gal I spoke to on the phone stated that I either have to meet face to face to physically take possession of the revolver or I have to go through an FFL to have it shipped up to me and then I have to go through the DROS and all that BS. She said that it was illegal per Federal Law to ship the revolver from private party to private party even though it is Father to Son. Any ideas on that?

:bofud:

Librarian
12-27-2010, 1:38 PM
As already noted, DOJ is often the source of confusion.

See the wiki http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Shipping_Firearms_Within_California